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the bluelight preconception, pregnancy and parenting l337ness thread

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cherbear did you use an electric pump? I am gettin one thru medicaid when my son comes in a month n a half or so.

The small, manual hand pumps are the ones that most people think of when they think of expressing the milk and of course that is gonna make people get a negative opinion , the idea of sittin there pumping and pumping this little thing tryina get enough suction and pressure to get the milk out, etc seems like a big pain in the ass, and then you got the next one to do after all that! the manual pumps are hard to use, i remember my mom using it when i was little and she was breastfeeding my younger sisters and it took her a long time and was a pain in the ass. I think the idea of having to use a pump like that to express milk turns a lot of people off and makes them think of it as more difficult than it really got to be since they aint aware of the electric, double sided pumps that are out there now and available to rent from lots of hospitals and breastfeeding places.

The electric pumps are very powerful and pump both breasts at once , they are pretty damn quick and take very little work. You can also rent them from the hospital if you cant buy one they are a couple hundred bucks. women who get WIC and medicaid can get them for free thru those programs. WIC really encourages people to breastfeed so they offer alot of incentives like that for you to do it.

anyways i just wanted to share that info for anybody that it might help:)
 
AmorRoark said:
As usual, ocean is the voice of reason IMO.

It is incredibly ridiculous to blanketedly judge people as 'selfish', 'lazy' or 'bordering on child neglect' for choosing formula over breast milk (especially considering I know a lot of the people commenting here are NOT parents yet). There are many reasons outside of medical issues or otherwise why people choose formula... many of which I don't see selfish at all. I hope I can easily breast-feed my kids when I have them but if not I'm not going to turn my kids over to the fucking child protective services. My mother breast-fed me. I appreciate her for it but I wouldn't hold it against her if she ended up deciding not to. I'm sure I'd be pretty OK. Seriously.

I'm not trying to point fingers at any specific contribution here but I really don't think it's that big of a deal to choose formula.
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This :)

My mom had an absolutely horrific time trying to breastfeed both me and my brother because of a laundry list of problems ranging from severe medical issues on the part of both mom and baby to "selfish" things like discomfort and convenience. She tried her damnedest but had to give up relatively quickly with both of us.

Breast milk is obviously the better option until science gets a better grip on how to synthetically produce formula that's identical. Colostrum in particular is not something you can just whip up in a test tube. The immune/growth factors involved are the key players here. Breast milk was designed to feed babies, so it's as close to perfect as we can get at the moment. Maybe one day the synthetic stuff will actually be better, but we'll probably have to wait quite a while for that... :)
 
nobody said that somebody with a medical issue that makes it impossible or very very difficult was selfish...Folks were talking about the "Uh, i just carried him for 9 months, so why should i have to breastfeed, gawd, its like you want me to be a mom or something" type of justification for it as bein selfish.
 
Breastfeeding does not make anyone a mother (let alone a better mother). And formula feeding does not make any woman less of a mother.
 
I'm wondering, what % of mothers are on medication? Also, what % of those on medication shouldn't breast feed because they'll pass it onto the baby? Obviously, the 'non selfish' thing to do is to see if you can switch medications to a non-harmful one. I assume some of the mommies and medical professionals on this site know all about this. I'm not having kids anytime soon but I can't imagine I'd be a very good mother without an anti-depressant. I imagine it's no good for babies though. Anybody have any good info to appease my curiosity?
 
yea, AR, some meds you cant take, some you can.

in the case of anti depressants, thats a really tough situation. You cannot take the majority of psych. meds while you breastfeed.

In that situation, i think it depends on the woman...depression IMO is overmedicated these days, there is a lot of people on antidepressants that really dont need to be on them...The drug companies got people believing that anytime they dont feel totallly 100% happy and awesome all the time is time to "ask their doctor about"...Ive talked to doctors who agree that its becoming more and more common for dr's to prescribe anti-d's for people who aint got "real" depression and are just dealing with feeling blue like you naturally do at some points in your life. but nowadays where in the past it woulda been, hey, try exercizing, eating a healthier diet, try counseling if you think you could benefit from it, make some changes in your life and it will most likely clear up the problem, sometimes you feel a little bit down over things and it goes away in time, its a healthy emotion thats natural to have. now they will throw a script at damn near anything.

My point with that little off topic part is that for a woman who is the not truly depressed patient, who is on these meds but could very likely manage her minor blues with some small lifestyle changes if they dont already go away on their own, could do without them and should give it a shot. Of course if she did stop taking them and found herself gettin more and more depressed, or felt postpartum depression coming on, then she could always go back on. Im just sayin that for a person who is on antidepressants or other psychiatric drugs who aint the person who truly needs them and is just on them becuz of indiscriminate doctors who are pushin the drugs to anybody, even the ones who have normal problems in their life that dont require medication, that person should seriously consider gettin off them and seeing if she can handle life without them for the sake of bein able to breast feed. A woman who is prescribed xanax for the general "anxiety" that it seems everybody and their dog has these days, and takes it becuz her doctor gave it to her becuz she was stressed at work over her boss's high expectations for her or sometihn like that, but dont actually have panic attacks or nothing like that--she would be a good candidate for taking a break from the meds and seein if she can deal without em. same thing for the woman who went into the doctor saying that she feels a little bit mopey lately now that it gets darker so much earlier, and is feeling kinda bored in general with life and kinda unsatisfied in general, and walked out with a script for antidepressants when her dr. said "well it sounds like you have depression!" is also a good example of somebody who could probably afford to try goin off them so they can breastfeed.

But, for a person who is really the type who truly does need to be on anti-d's or other meds, the chick who is devastated by panic attacks and terrible anxiety and needs klonopin or somethin to function, the woman who had long term recurrent major depression for years before she got on her meds, you would never ask her to stop taking them in this case. A depressed mother aint gonna be a good mother, you know? In that case, the benefit of being on the meds is the most important thing to consider, you want to be in the best shape you possibly can to take care of your baby so in that case you do the best you can with wat you got, it would be irresponsible to stop taking your meds to breastfeed unless you were 100% up for it and really really wanted to breastfeed so were willing to make the sacrifice, but on top of that your doctor would have to approve it and think you could handle it , and agreed to monitor you closely and make sure that you didnt start regressing back into depression, etc. I wouldnt think no less of a woman tho if she had a serious case of serious mental illness that really needed medication, if she stayed on it and didnt breastfeed. Overall it aint gonna make you a terrible mom if you dont, and while breastfeeding does have lots of positive qualities that make it better than formula, and it does have effects that tend to contribute to breastfed babies being healthier in general, it aint such a enormous huge difference that its worth jeapordizing your baby over by not taking meds that you truly need. If you end up relapsing into deep depression or get hit with postpartum or you start having anxiety fits and cant even leave the house you aint gonna be being the best mom that you can be, so in that case you should def. stay on the meds and not feel bad about it at all.



Certain meds you can breast feed on...For example, im on Methadone, and many people aint aware that not only is it safe for women to breastfeed when they on it but all the major medical groups, the american pediatric association, the american medical association, etc, all those guys, actually recommend and encourage women on methadone to breastfeed and promote it over formula. the benefit of breastfeeding is so very high that the extremely tiny amount that passes onto the infant which is negligible anyways, makes it very much worth it. (IIRC, the general estimated amount that gets to the baby is 0.28 micrograms per session or some crazy low amount like that. Ima try and find the medical research paper that i was reading that stated the average amount that is secreted in breastmilk and confirm it.)

for babies born on methadone they got a special set of needs as far as detoxing safely, etc. That period where they may experience some withdrawals can be really hard for the baby, AND the mom, to go thru. doctors have found that breastfeeding greatly reduces the babies withdrawal symptoms and seems to help them grow much faster than formula fed babies during the time that they are bein detoxed. the act of breastfeeding itself is very calming to the baby who is experiencing withdrawal symptoms and has a very significant effect on getting them back to baseline, quicker. Babies who are breastfed as they detox off the methadone are released from the hospital between 9 and 28 days sooner on average, than formula fed babies. So it helps a LOT in that situation. The amount that goes in the breast milk is sooo small that if it was passed onto a non-dependent baby, there would be no effect at all. not even the slightest signs of slowed breathing or nothing like that. But for some reason for babies who ARE dependent, the tiny amount that is in there is just enough to 'take the edge off' and that combined with the soothing calming effects of breastfeeding thru the oxytocin and other 'love hormones' that are secreted during breastfeeding, helps the infant recover from the detox period much faster, easier, and smoother.


I was just usin the 2 examples of antidepressants vs methadone to show that some meds are OK for breastfeeding, some aint. And in some situations where you might automatically tend to think "Oh, no way, you shouldnt breastfeed on THAT", the truth is actually much different. ( i think that most people would assume that a woman on methadone should not breast feed, so i always like sharing the facts with people and lettin them know just how beneficial it is. Its great in general but to baby born to a methadone dependent mother its incredibly helpful and does a whole lot to ease the stress of that situation.)
 
For real? What the hell does it matter??? To ask the question "Why on earth would somebody give their baby formula instead of breast milk? Is like saying "Why on earth do people not eat 100% organic, home-cooked meals?" In a perfect world we would all eat the most healthy thing for us all the time. But in reality some people's lifestyles just don't allow for that. The choice of formula over breast milk is exactly that and really nothing more! To call formula mothers lazy and selfish is so naive

I almost didn't want to respond here because I'm getting soo fed up with threads regarding parenting being taken over by people who are not even parents talking shit to those of us who --believe it or not-- really do care about our kids and actually want to give them the best
I am responding though because I think its important to clarify some of the misconceptions about breastfeeding. Even mothers who do have experience still have their judgments about formula mothers, and I actually think that is very dangerous

When I was pregnant and even before that I have been surrounded by what I now like to call breast feeding nazis. They all warned me about the hospital "dont let them give her formula!! they'll try to but whatever you do dont let them!!" As if formula is some sort of poison or something. When I was at the hospital my daughter lost a ton of weight and the nurses told me I would have to give her formula. I told them "All babies lose weight at first, I'm still going to nurse" Her blood sugar ended up dropping to such a dangerous level that they had to put an IV into her and kept it in until I agreed to give her formula. I even got the WIC electric double pump but like some other mother posted, I only got trickles. I tried vigorously for 2 months pumping, taking vitamins and herbs and still trying to nurse her. It got to a point where she would scream bloody murder everytime I tried to put her to my breast. It was more than frustrating for her and me! It was extremely time consuming (one friend told me to pump on each side for 20 min every hour...which didn't leave me hardly any time to do anything else like eat, take a shower, take a shit! let alone spend time with my newborn baby!!!) I finally gave up after 2 months and STILL got shit from some of my friends that I should keep trying!

A lot of people say "well at least you tried" but I think that if formula feeding were more socially acceptable I wouldn't have gone through so much fucking grief over the whole thing. I pretty much spent 2 months crying. My daughter didn't deserve that. Now that I have another child, I went through a lot of the same things and I realized that it really doesn't matter THAT much. I feel that I'm a better parent for opting to spent time with my children instead of stressing out about producing milk. Its a lot harder than you might think. I've heard many women say that breast feeding is more painful than labor. Imagine having labor like contractions (which you can't really imagine unless you've been through it) every time you nurse for days after actual labor. Cracked nipples? Try bleeding nipples-for weeks!
Not to mention *I* think its selfish to be the only one who gets to feed the baby. Since we decided to formula feed my son as well it makes Dad, Grandpa, Grandma, etc soooo happy to get to bond with him in that way as well.
Also I am one of those people that I made reference to above that grows and harvests their own fruits and vegetables. Problem was, all the things we grow; eggplant, tomatoes, broccolli, kale, daikon--all gave my son terrible gas!!! It was just awful to see him in pain as I slowly eliminated more and more things from my diet.

But go ahead, call me selfish and lazy...



Formula is NOT bad
I think the lowered rates of breast-feeding have an impact on the amount of allergies children now have. This is just my opinion as I have no scientific evidence supporting my claim, but think about it: There are children with so many allergies nowadays compared to 30 years ago. Compared to 30 years ago, more babies were probably breast-fed.
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Actually, 30 years ago Doctors were telling women that breast feeding could kill your baby lol idk why on earth that happened but thats the word on the streets from that generation

We all know "breast is best" but that doesn't mean formula is "BAD" For example, it would of course be healthier (and tastier) to grow and harvest your own tomatoes, onions, garlic, etc for a homegrown, homade pasta sauce. But its not BAD or even unhealthy to just buy a fucking can! Its essentially the same thing.

Someone mentioned that formula companies might be lying in order to get their product sold. I actually have often wondered the opposite!! Breast feeding advocates always shout that breast milk guards against infections, allergies, etc...I'm not a doctor and have never conducted a formal study, but in my experiences I haven't found that to be true. My brother and I were both breast fed and we have a ton of allergies! Pretty much all of my friends breast fed their babies and they were sick an average of 2-3x/month!! My daughter who was exclusively formula fed was sick maybe once every 4-5months. She has a great immune system!! Then again, those are just my experiences.

I wanted to add here that obviously lots of moms cant be with their baby all the time but in that case why wouldnt you just pump your breast milk?

And if you want to bottle feed your baby and not "deal" with breastfeeding why not just pump the milk and bottle feed it to the baby. Its still easier and less time consuming and less expensive than formula so when you compare bottle fed breast milk to bottle fed formula in that case i still cant understand why a woman would choose formula.
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Lacey I can tell you are genuinely curious and not just talking shit so I want to say I appreciate you for that. As you may soon find out pumping milk is not so easy! If it were that easy I'm sure more mothers would choose to do so. The truth is that while pumping does help for some mothers, it just doesn't work for others

I breast fed my son for 2 years, (up until the point he started the chew my nipples) and I did'nt find it easy to milk myself at all!!

Id put the pump on and get a dribble after an hours work, I think yes breast feedings great for you and your baby, but it is very demanding!!!
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I also had a really REALLY hard time pumping!! I'm happy for you that you were at least able to nurse your son for 2 years! I have heard some mothers say that they didn't even need to pump, just squeeze their titty over a bottle and enough milk would come out. Everyone is different though and I was the same as you that I would pump for over an hour and get such a tiny little amount! It was frustrating to say the least!! I have heard people say that the breast knows the difference between baby and pump and I guess thats true. Its also true that the pump will never give you as much as the baby can get, although it can be a good indication.


The justifications of "well she just carried a baby for a whole nine months, it's her choice" is bullshit to me. You just gave birth and you're already looking for ways to cut corners? Seems people don't realize that having a child means you're putting them ahead of yourself for the next two decades.
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8) Without looking at your profile I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you're not only male, but also have no children of your own. :\ Am I right? I'm going to just leave it at that because i know it would be a waste of time arguing with you, you couldn't understand unless you are a parent


My mom has told me about when I was a newborn, how she didn't really mind the lack of sleep because she'd hear me crying, wake up in the middle of the night and then just sit in the moonlight coming in the window, just me and her, and look down at me as I quietly fed from her. She said it was always so beautiful and peaceful.
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I formula fe(e)d both my children and I never mind getting up in the middle of the night! Its a treasure to be able to spend the time with them alone, quiet, peaceful. Just because I feed them from a bottle doesn't mean we don't bond

The sore nipples thing worries me as well. I've contemplated my ability to stand the pain and discomfort of breast feeding. I think, for me, if I decide breast feeding might not work for me, I'd rather just not have children. I just consider it a part of having children, and if I can't do it I can't be a mom.
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I'm sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you...are you saying that because you're afraid of having sore nipples you are considering not having children altogether?? If thats the most of your worries, then yes, please do yourself a favor and do not have kids!! Also I'm curious, a personal question--I found out after my daughter started eating regular food that she has several problems, what we now think is a very rare genetic disorder, and that is actually the reason I couldnt nurse her--if you found out during pregnacy that your child would have something "wrong" that he/she wouldnt be able to nurse--what would you do? How important is breastfeeding really??
 
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No, sore nipples is not the only reason. But yes, if I knew ahead of time I'd be unable to breast feed, I'd prefer to not have children at all. There are a number of reasons I may not want to have children, it is not like that is the only possible reason. I have not made my mind up yet about kids, but if I have them breast feeding is important to me. Sorry if that offends you, I already made one huge long post in this thread explaining that my views are just what I believe in but I don't judge others.

Someone mentioned that formula companies might be lying in order to get their product sold. I actually have often wondered the opposite!! Breast feeding advocates always shout that breast milk guards against infections, allergies, etc...I'm not a doctor and have never conducted a formal study, but in my experiences I haven't found that to be true. My brother and I were both breast fed and we have a ton of allergies! Pretty much all of my friends breast fed their babies and they were sick an average of 2-3x/month!!
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I personally feel that breast feeding might be less healthy than formula IF the mother doesn't have a healthy body, is filled with nasty toxins, etc. No offense intended to the people you mentioned, I think most if not all people (including my mom when she fed me) are quite toxic these days due to diet, etc. So you are probably right that formula could be healthier. I only speak for myself, if I get pregnant I'll be living in a peaceful mossy forest drinking spring water and eating nothing but organic greens and fruit so I'll be pure. lol ;)

But yeah, it's a complicated issue. I won't say more because I already explained my views of the way I say things in the other post. <3
 
lovealways, In my posts I actually said that for the woman who just tries and tries and shit dont work out, they shouldnt be beatin themself up. I totally understand that and in that case you shjouldnt feel bad.

I am just talking about the people who are completely totally capable of doing it, got plenty of milk, no health problems or meds that can cause them to have issues, etc, who CAN do it easily without any issues but choose not to, in that situation i do feel like it is hard to understand.

But for someone in your situation and the other exceptions that i said, of course i can understand that, this question really dont apply to you and moms like you cuz you doin everything you can. :)
 
I only speak for myself, if I get pregnant I'll be living in a peaceful mossy forest drinking spring water and eating nothing but organic greens and fruit so I'll be pure. lol
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Sounds like where I live!! (and the people I mentioned) You better move to Maui then before you get knocked up lol My point Deja is that you don't always know ahead of time whether or not you will be able to breast feed
 
Anti-Ds and anxiety meds may be overprescribed but not in my situation. I've REFUSED for years and years to take them and finally realized I needed them in order to not self-harm. So yes, Lacey, I see your point but please don't think I'm a sad-sack pill-popper. ;)

Thanks for your thoughts though. I agree women should get off any meds they can before they have babies.
 
hey, i know my post was long, ;) but I said in there that for the people who really need em, they need em. Theres a difference between people who dont really need them and take em when they could easily go without but take them becuz their doctor gave em to them. Some people absolutely really need them. some dont but take them becuz they dont know no better and they are overprescribed.

for the people who really need em, they need em. If they dont, they should consider gettin off them so they can breastfeed. Im totally on the same page with you, I think you mighta misunderstood my post cuz everything i said goes along with wat you said. :)
 
depression and pain causes your body to make stress hormones that can be passed on to your baby, not fair to the baby IMO if happy mom = happy baby then the opposite is also true
 
Yea, thats exactly wat I been saying. Am i speakin some kinda crazy ass language here or wat? damn! ;)
 
lacey k said:
Yea, thats exactly wat I been saying. Am i speakin some kinda crazy ass language here or wat? damn! ;)
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lol no sorry i just dont have much time to actually read through the longer posts, just skimmed through. Even though I wrote a long one it took me like 3 days to do that lol

neway I nursed my son for about 2 weeks, and then CHOSE not to breast feed him for a number of reasons and pain wasn't even one of them I'm one of the only women i know that nursed without any pain whatsoever, all the other moms i know had big problems with that. For me it was more about time and stress.

they say 10-15min on each side but my super mellow laid back boy liked to kick it on my titty for like an hour or more! and then he wanted to nurse AGAIN in another hour! would have been fine if i didnt have another, extremely demanding baby. it worked ok when my mom was staying here to help me. but when i'm alone its pretty much impossible to spend so many hours a day with just one kid. i'm not gonna let my other one stay in a shitty diaper for an hour u know?

another reason is that i kind of had a problem with milk production, i think also due in big part to the demands of my daughter. my doula insisted that i be totally calm, don't try to do anything else, just relax and be with the baby. again, that might have been easy with one baby, but not when there's another one climbing all over you getting jealous n shit. i'm not the only mom i know that had to to take vitamins and herbs, or pump to increase milk supply. for a lot of women you have to work to get the milk

another reason is because as i mentioned before, it seemed like EVERYTHING was giving him gas. it wasn't a matter of "this damn kid wont let me eat what i want" it was about not wanting to see my baby in pain while i tried to figure out what in my diet was making him that way

finally, believe it or not i actually felt selfish when i nursed him. *i* liked it, it was very relaxing and good time to have an excuse to just go be alone with him for a little bit (or a long time cause thats how he rolls) but i know that in the end he usually ended up in pain from gas, my daughter was neglected by me, and when my husband started complaining "its not fair, you're with him all the time, all i get to do is wipe his ass--he doesnt even know me" i knew it wasnt worth all the trouble just to make myself feel better. when i made my decision i knew i could be a good mom, and probably even better mom, if i didn't breast feed.


ultimately i feel good about my decision, but i still hate feeling like i have to defend myself against breast feeding "nazis" i think its funny when you guys say stuff like "even though i dont have kids and have no experience breast feeding i think moms who chose not to breast feed are selfish and lazy, no offense" how are we supposed to not take offense to that??? well "no offense" to you guys but you're all ignorant
 
regardless of whatever reason a mother (or in some cases its a family decision) chose formula over breast milk, its THEIR decision. I still dont get why it matters to other people. Do you sit around and judge people who eat Mcdonalds, or other junk food? Its their bodies, their lives. I find some of these comments especially surprising coming from mothers who advocate "its a womens right to choose" when it comes to abortion, but not breast feeding??? THAT doesn't make sense to me
 
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