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The Big & Dandy Syrian Rue & Harmala MAOI Alkaloids Thread

You can definitely smoke the seeds
but yea as ^^ said, if you consider a typical oral dosage (~2-3 gram), there is a whole lot that you would have to smoke in order to get proper mao-inhibition. HOWEVER, smoking the seeds a lone does provide a nice buzz.
edit: a buzz that requires diet restriciton...
 
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Do U Prefer Natural Or Synthetic MAOI's To Potentiate Trips?

I've been reading a lot online lately about how much certain MAO drugs can boost DMT, Psilocybe, Mescaline, HBW/MG, etc. It seems like people consistently report a stronger, longer lasting trip when preloading on natural MAO's (Syrian Rue, Harmala) or synthetic MAO's (Harmaline, Moclobemide) before any of these psychedelics. Have you guys tried using any of these MAO's to potentiate psychedelics and which did you like the best? I'm trying to decide whether to go with a natural MAO or synthetic.

I see a whole lot of people use Syrian Rue to potentiate Psilocybe and a lot of people use Moclobemide to make DMT orally active. I can understand using Moclobemide to make DMT orally active since if one instead used something like Rue with a DMT plant source I'd assume the Rue would add to the nausea, possibly making it overwhelming. Whereas, supposedly Moclobemide lacks the nausea inducing side effects of Rue.

What I don't get is why so many people who want to MAO potentiate Psilocybe only try preloading on Rue. Is there a reason Rue/Harmala is more desireable a preloader for Psilocybe than Moclobemide? Is the Psilocybe potentiation from these plants much deeper and more powerful than Moclobemide or is it simply that a lot less people know about Moclobemide as a potentiator and have tried it?

Also, how does preloading on Rue/Harmala compare to preloading on Harmaline hcl before psychedelics? I was curious about trying Harmaline till I heard it's very expensive. One cool thing about Harmaline I could use it sublingually rather than eating it or perhaps even snorted or rectally. A few people claim snorting Harmaline works quite well and bypasses any nausea.

I, myself, have only so far used Rue as an MAO potentiator (I've preloaded on it before Psilocybe and HBW experiences). I really liked the synergy but could have done without the body load side effects (nausea and a heavy, sluggish, tiredfeeling). The Rue def. did make my trips more visually and mentally intense, more physically euphoric, longer lasting and in general deeper.However, something about Rue just felt a bit too toxic to my body, not to mention it made my mind so strangely spaced out and I prefer clear headed trips.

I assume I'd prefer preloading on Moclobemide though as I hear it's nausea free and stimulating rather than sedating. I also hear Moclobemide doesn't have nearly as many dietary and drug restrictions as most MAO's. When I find a reliable, cheap source for Moclobemide I'll order it and report back to you guys as how it works as a preloader for Psilocybin or HBW.

Question- it's only MAO-a inhibitors that potentiate psychedelics right? So an MAO-b inhibitor like Deprenyl would be pointless to use as a preloader to psychedelics, right? Although, above 10 mg Deprenyl becomes an MAO-a as I recall to maybe it could in fact potentiate psychedelics?

What are the usual physical risks with MAO-a's? Do I need to worry about things like a raised blood pressure? And is it safe to combine any stimulating at all with MAO-a's? I know obviously mixing strong stimulants like amphetamines, etc. with an MAO-a would be harmful and risky but would be mixing a low dose of a milder stimulant like Caffeine be okay? If not, could I at least combine stimulating smart drugs/supplements (Piracetam, Hydergine, DMAE, Acetyl L-Carnitine, Rhodiola, CoQ10, or Ginseng) with an MAO-a or is this too forbidden?
 
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Merged in a question about MAOIs.

An MAO-B inhibitor such as deprenyl actually will affect phenethylamines, I think. I believe it will leave tryptamines unaffected. I have read at least one report of deprenyl potentiating 2C-B strongly.
 
An MAO-b prob. wouldn't affect Tryptamines as you said but at doses above 10 mg I hear Deprenyl becomes an MAO-a. And don't MAO-a's generally potentiate Tryptamines? Something about combining a high dose of Deprenyl with Psilocybin or HBW/MG just sounds so fun. I can't imagine having the clearheaded, alert, focused, upbeat feeling of Deprenyl while tripping, seems like it could be marvelous. Combining Rue with Psilocybe and HBW on various occasions was great and everything but I didn't like the heavy, sluggish body feeling and spaced outness of it.

I wonder what Deprenyl would do to Mescaline since you said MAO-b's can potentiate phenethylamines. I'm aware it's generally very dangerous to mix MAO's and/or stimulants with phenethylamines but Deprenyl is a relatively mild nontoxic stimulant, and I've heard before of people safely combining MAO's and Mescaline. Alarmists have warned to never mix MAO's with Mescaline but many people on forums and Erowid have combined MAO plants like Syrian Rue with cacti and reported no noticeable health problems.

Hopefully eventually people on forums will describe whether Moclobemide mixes well with Psilocybe or HBW/MG. So far all they discuss is that Moclobemide works out well with DMT. The way people describe Moclobemide as a clean stimulated feeling it sounds like the opposite of Syrian Rue so I'd expect a very different kind of Tryptamine potentiation.

I'm only going to resort to using Rue with Psilocybe and HBW for the time being until I order Moclobemide. I think I'll grind my Rue finely and pack it in OOO capsules, as I hated the taste and texture of mixing ground Rue with beverages, and toss n washing it was fucking HORRIBLE, god.

One of these days I need to get around to learning how to make an effective Syrian Rue resin that I can smoke. Years ago my friend did a lemon juice (or was it vinegar?) extraction of Rue into a black gummy like resin which we had many a fun night smoking. It felt soooo much cleaner than eating Rue and kicked in instantly, so we could gauge exactly how high we wanted to get :) I'd love to see what it would be like to smoke some bowls of Rue resin while peaking on Psilo or HBW.

I'm curious whether you guys prefer extracting Harmaline from Syrian Rue or doing a resin extraction. I'd be afraid to eat Syrian Rue resin as I've heard of people ODing really bad on it. And who all here has tried pure Harmaline hcl crystals? Is it true they can be snorted. I have a fetish for plugging things so I'd prob try them by that route if I got the chance...

One last thing- why is it MAO-a's potentiate DMT, Psilocybin and LSA yet from what I hear MAO-a's don't potentiate LSD but instead weaken it? I'd assume MAO-a's would potentiate LSD like it does these other psychedelics but literature on Erowid suggests that, if anything, MAO-a's bring one down from LSD. What other psychedelics do MAO-a's potentiate? Like I've heard they boost Salvia divinorum nicely and perhaps they'd synergize with Amanita?

I'd think a preload combination like an MAO, Piracetam and Hydergine would offer one of the best Tryptamine potentiations.

Maybe one day someone will believe me that preloading for a few nights on very high doses of Melatonin then tripping the next day on a Tryptamine or Phenethylamine psychedelic can sometimes potentiate and lengthen the trip.

This link explains how Melatonin can enhance a trip:

Combining Mescaline & Other Substances- http://users.lycaeum.org/~iamklaus/combine.htm
 
The Wizard said:
Hopefully eventually people on forums will describe whether Moclobemide mixes well with Psilocybe or HBW/MG. So far all they discuss is that Moclobemide works out well with DMT. The way people describe Moclobemide as a clean stimulated feeling it sounds like the opposite of Syrian Rue so I'd expect a very different kind of Tryptamine potentiation.
Click to expand...

I'm on 300 mg moclobemide daily and I tried mushrooms last weekend. I liked it a lot. I preferred the trip to mushrooms alone. My dose was low to test how strong the potentiation would be and I took a booster dose after an hour. I had more energy than normal, which I enjoyed because normally shrooms can immobilize me. It was a peaceful, calm and beautiful trip which lacked the dark tendency shrooms always have for me (stronger than most psychedelics).
 
Thank you so much for typing your experience report with Moclobemide + Mushrooms! I wonder if one has to be on Moclobemide daily for it to reach peak plasma levels so it can then fully potentiate tripping on Mushrooms or if just a single dose of Moclobemide hours before a dose of Mushrooms can give the full potentiation. Your comment that Moclobemide is stimulating I’ve heard verified by numerous people online. And I’d wondered if this meant it could make the Mushroom experience more energetic and less lethargic and you confirmed this for me. One of the only things I dislike about Mushrooms is how they can sometimes give me a heavy, lazy, sleepy feeling so if Moclobemide could make the trip more alert this would be perfect for me.

The way you describe your combination as being peaceful, calm and beautiful reminds me of my experiences combining Syrian Rue with Mushrooms. They were more positive, upbeat, easygoing and spiritual than the typical Mushroom trip. Did you find the Moclobemide to make the Mushroom trip more visual, physically euphoric, longer lasting and more insightful? Sounds like Moclobemide might be THE ideal MAOI to potentiate Tryptamines.

I’d still like to explore using Rue with Mushrooms or HBW more though. I want to see how those huasca combos will compare to the huasca combos of Moclobemide with Shrooms or HBW. I’m not going to give up on Rue just because I found out about this Moclobemide. 2 or 3 years ago when I used Rue with Mushrooms I remember it being a very satisfying, fulfilling experience but it was so long ago that I don’t remember the details of the trip well at all. Much more recently I’ve had experiences combining Rue with HBW and that combo really nicely kicked my ass. Rue made my HBW trips feel more like I’d imagine Ayahuasca would feel. The trip had a much more spaced out, dissociating, otherwordly feel to it.

Does combining Moclobemide or Syrian Rue with Mushrooms make the trip more DMT-ish in the sense you can see and feel the presence of strange entities?
 
I've tried ayahuasca brews made with rue as well as caapi and I personally haven't noticed a difference in effect between the two. I am wondering if this is generally the case, though. At the aya forums I've asked and alot of folks have said that the vine is quite distinct. I don't totally trust the responses I got there because at ayahuasca forums the vine has been placed on a religious pedastal.

So, what do you folks think? Are the effects of the two plants distinct for you? Which do you prefer? If you prefer the vine, is the difference enough to justify the huge price difference and added procurement difficulty?

Also, I just thought I'd mention that diplopterys cabrerana is said to contain signifigant quantities of 5-meo-dmt and is used in place of and in addition to, psychotria viridis. I've no idea if diplopterys brews are more problematic as a result but it would seem that the 5meodmt/maoi issue isn't clear.
 
Do premade extracts of Caapi and Syrian Rue work as well as the fresh plant? I'm sick of what a pain in the ass Rue is to consume. Do extracts produce less nausea? Am I right to use only 3-4 grams of Rue when I use it as a preloader for Tryptamines (HBW or Psilocybe)? I hear higher doses of Rue become very toxic feeling.

How do you guys like the effects of Rue/Caapi alone? I've mainly only used Rue with psychedelics, rarely alone. Is it true Rue on its own can actually be pretty mind expanding and deep? What psychedelics would you compare it to?

Though I do plan to use Rue on its own, with Psilocybe, and with HBW soon, I doubt once I try Moclobemide as a psychedelic potentiator that I'll still have a use for Rue. The fact Rue tastes like shit, can cause nausea and makes me feel a bit heavy/sleepy, while Moclobemide supposedly is a clean stimulating feeling, suggests to me I'll be a much bigger fan of using Moclobemide as a tryptamine potentiator.
 
I'm on 300 mg of moclobemide daily. I have read the "Anti-Depressants and Recreational Drugs" thread which cleared up some of my questions, but I still have a few left. If I wanted to experiment with the chemicals below, starting with very low doses to be safe (even below threshold), how would I go about that? What should I monitor for signs of problems like serotonin levels getting too high, blood pressure getting high or low, heart rate? Things like headaches, nausea?

I have read quite a few reports about mescaline with MAOIs which usually seem to go well. I would like to find out about 2C-B, 2C-C, 2C-D, 2C-E, 2C-I, 2C-T-7, DOC, DOM, 4-HO-DIPT. I would for instance take 1 mg of 2C-E to check for signs of health problems. Next time I would double the dose if there were no problems, etc...

Which of the above chemicals would likely be dangerous and why? Which ones would be less dangerous to try with this method?
 
I've heard a low dose of Rue mixes very pleasantly with 2CE and doesn't add body load or feel toxic. I'd assume keep the dose of Rue low (2-3 grams) and the 2CE low (10-15 g for a newbie, 15-25 mg for a real vet). Make sure not to take ANY stimulants with the rue/2ce combo. and no tyramine containing foods.

Moclobemide would prob be a safer way to boost phens like mescaline and 2ce than rue.

It's prob safest u just stick to combining beta-carbolines or moclobemide with classic tryptamines rather than phens. preload on an maoi an hr or 2 before a mushroom or dmt or hbw journey.

So is psychotria viridis and enjoyable source of dmt to use in an ayahuasca combo. i want to preload on rue or moclobemide (preferably moclobemide) then later eat 40-60 grams of viridis. is this a good first-time dose of viridis? Is is true the Ayahuasca trip lasts hrs? And do you feel the presence of wise entities on it?

I have verrry extensive experience with L, HBW, Psilocybe, K, DXM, 2ce, MDxx and some experience with Salvia divinorum, Nitrous, Nutmeg, Wormwood hash, Butorphanol, Deliriants, Virola, DOxx's so I assume I'll be able to handle a moderate dose of Ayahuasca.
 
Wizard, those doses of 2C-E are ones that I would recommend for without an MAOI. I would start with 5mg 2C-E + MAOI at most.

Anyway, donvliet, MAOIs can cut your effective dose in half or even down to a third, so start very, very low. I would be more wary of the more stimulating drugs than anything else. I don't think I'd ever mix a DOx with an MAOI, nor 2C-I. I expect that all of the others in your list would be fine though, just be careful. Can't emphasize that enough.
 
I bet you Moclobemide's much safer with 2CE or Mescaline than Rue or Caapi would be. I don't get how people ever have overwhelming trips on 2CE. I've def. done it over 30 times usually at very high doses and never had a bad trip at all. I hear of people getting overwhelmed by just doing 15 or 20 mg. I did 15 or 20 mg my first time and every time after that I did at least 20-30 mg, sometimes 40 or more. The most I ever did was nearly 100 mg of 2CE in a night. I know because we weighed it out in advance. I still didnt get a body load or notice any negative thoughts. I stopped doing 2CE because I became totally immune to it. Last time I used it before going to the Magic Kingdom and it wore off really, really fast. I was tripping nicely on Space Mountain, Pirates of the Carribean and the Jungle Cruise but by the time I went on Splash Mountain I was pretty close to baseline :(
 
Interesting note while at the library reading the book "clinical advances in monoamine oxidase inhibitor therapy" (its important to get information from places other than the net because sometimes incorrect info gets repeated over and over until its 'true') i learned that 'MAOB is present in serotonergic neurons and MAOA is located predominantly intraneuronally in catecholaminergic neurons' this was in a portion of the book on selegiline and seems to contradict everything i have read previously about MAOB being responsible for the breakdown of dopamine, it also means that the effects of MAOB may be just as dramatic if not more so on tryptamines.
the more you know....?
 
As far as I know, they don't at all. Other than to whatever extent they tie up MAOI-A and/or MAO-B during ingestion. But in that sense, every chemical that is consumed by MAO enzymes could be considered an MAOI.
 
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