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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Solubility & Stability Thread

Shambles said:
Let it evaporate - wouldn't cook it myself cos however stable 2Cs are I doubt they appreciate too much heat.
Click to expand...

hmmm.. so wouldnt want it too dilute or itll take ages to dry out. Is something like 2CE definately more stable in liquid form than powder?
 
IIRC, the MSDS I saw for 2C-E had a melting point listed of 247-249C. Not sure if it reacts in any way to heat before boiling.

I use highly concentrated everclear solutions, so drying out is easy. As for stability, 2C-E is quite stable even in solution. Leaving a bottle of solution in a dark drawer inside your air conditioned home should be more than good enough for at least a couple years with no significant degradation.

This may seem like a silly question but does anyone have advice for a specific container to store an everclear/ethanol-based solution for long periods of time? Is glass the material of choice or is there a variety of plastic container that works just as well? I imagine most containers will work *okay* but I was wondering if anyone knew of a specific container roughly 4oz (I plan to store 100mL at a time of solutions, more than that would be split between multiple containers) in capacity, made of materials that are hard to break and won't leech anything over time into a high concentration of ethanol and is good and airtight? Are there any materials I should avoid with a highly alcoholic solution to be stored at room temperature for long periods? I would hate to prep a lovely solution of my favorite compounds, tuck it away for months or years to come only to find out it's become a toxic mess because of the bottle or lid I stored it with, or has partially evaporated to a completely unknown concentration... I'm particularly worried about lid materials/airtight-ness, as i can always just go with glass for the bottles. Being not too deep relative to its width and having not too tiny an opening so it's not awkward to use a pipette or oral syringe to suck up a dose when it's half empty is also a plus.

I currently have a small amount of solution in a plastic container - not a soda bottle or anything, but the sort of rigid translucent plastic used to make a lot of kitchen products. Am I ruining/poisoning my solution? Will I if I continue leaving it in there (it's been in there for a few days now)?
 
Would propylene glycol be better for dissolving 2ci in for liquid dosing, or is there not really much between it?
 
Link_S: plain old ethanol works just fine. I have encountered it at 10mg/mL concentration in everclear (nearly pure ethanol with a tiny bit of water) and 20mg/mL in vodka. I'm not sure exactly where the saturation point lies but it's probably a good bit higher than 20mg/mL in both distilled water and ethanol. I've never prepared an -I solution myself, but the -E solution I prepared dissolved within seconds of shaking in room temperature everclear at 10mg/mL and remained in solution with no precipitates forming. I've heard that precipitates tend to form when such a 2C solution is cooled significantly, but that allowing it to warm back up to room temperature and shaking it a bit brings it all back into solution.

So, it's possible that propylene glycol might work "better" in some sense, but ethanol and distilled water both work so well that I don't see a need.
 
solistus, i would buy and amber or dark blue glass vial to store the solution.

I have a question about storing solutions though.
Isnt there the worry of some of it evaporating making the concentration ofthe solution more potent?
 
Delsyd: that's why I'm curious about lids/caps for such containers. I want to make sure that A) whatever material the sealant is made of is alcohol proof and B) that it's also going to remain airtight for the long term. Evaporation should be a mild concern at most with an airtight container - each time the container is opened, you would lose a small amount of evaporated alcohol as the alcohol-laden air in the container is replaced with fresh, not-saturated-with-alcohol air, but unless you kept a massive amount all in one container I don't think this would be a huge issue - either divide a large batch into several airtight containers and only have one at a time that is periodically opened, or store the large batch in one or a small number of larger containers and very rarely open it to transfer material out to a smaller one for more frequent access.

I always use solvents I can easily evaporate out (everclear or distilled water) so, worst case, I can always evaporate a solution down, weigh the remaining material and make a new solution if I'm worried that the volume has changed considerably. So far, I've never made a big enough batch for this to be an issue - so long as the container is airtight, it would probably only be a problem over a very long period of time, no? Given how ridiculously fast alcohol evaporates, the fact that I have seen everclear solutions go weeks at least without obviously reducing in volume due to evaporation seems to indicate my logic is correct here.
 
many glass vials utilize a waxed paper washer in the lid for sealing, which does NOT provide protection against evaporation. I have had a 2C-E solution in distilled H2O show noticeable evaporation in a "sealed" glass vial.

#2 HDPE plastic is inert and seals well, but the plastic itself is vulnerable to degradation by UV light, so keep in the dark.
Amber glass provides protection from light, but without a proper seal will lose solvent.
You can get amber glass vials from specialty bottle that have conical plastic seals in the lid, these are ideal.
 
greenmeanies: I saw a link to specialtybottle and checked them out but was worried precisely about the caps. Do you have first-hand experience with them? They sell a variety of amber glass bottles at various sizes, for pretty cheap... Think those would work well for long-term storage of an ethanol-based solution, then? As for light, they'd be kept in a drawer for the most part but short term exposure is no big deal, so long as they aren't left outside in the sun or something, right?

The container I'm using now may not be perfectly airtight. The vials, OTOH, have rubber stoppers that, AFAIK, provide a completely airtight seal - I think they're the type typically used to store blood samples and such. BD Vacutainers.
 
What do you guys think about something like one of these for holding a dissolved 2c in vodka, to avoid evaporation? The only concern I would have would be not being able to see if the solution is completely dissolved, but from what I'm reading here, that really shouldn't be a worry, like, say, it would be when trying to dissolve phenazepam in propylene glycol... With that, you have to shake, let sit, run under hot water, etc, and it still takes a long time to be able to see that it is all dissolved. Is this a much easier dissolving process that gives uniform solution quickly and with a bit of shaking?

Prefer-B.jpg
 
solistus said:
IIRC, the MSDS I saw for 2C-E had a melting point listed of 247-249C. Not sure if it reacts in any way to heat before boiling.

I use highly concentrated everclear solutions, so drying out is easy. As for stability, 2C-E is quite stable even in solution. Leaving a bottle of solution in a dark drawer inside your air conditioned home should be more than good enough for at least a couple years with no significant degradation.

This may seem like a silly question but does anyone have advice for a specific container to store an everclear/ethanol-based solution for long periods of time? Is glass the material of choice or is there a variety of plastic container that works just as well? I imagine most containers will work *okay* but I was wondering if anyone knew of a specific container roughly 4oz (I plan to store 100mL at a time of solutions, more than that would be split between multiple containers) in capacity, made of materials that are hard to break and won't leech anything over time into a high concentration of ethanol and is good and airtight? Are there any materials I should avoid with a highly alcoholic solution to be stored at room temperature for long periods? I would hate to prep a lovely solution of my favorite compounds, tuck it away for months or years to come only to find out it's become a toxic mess because of the bottle or lid I stored it with, or has partially evaporated to a completely unknown concentration... I'm particularly worried about lid materials/airtight-ness, as i can always just go with glass for the bottles. Being not too deep relative to its width and having not too tiny an opening so it's not awkward to use a pipette or oral syringe to suck up a dose when it's half empty is also a plus.

I currently have a small amount of solution in a plastic container - not a soda bottle or anything, but the sort of rigid translucent plastic used to make a lot of kitchen products. Am I ruining/poisoning my solution? Will I if I continue leaving it in there (it's been in there for a few days now)?
Click to expand...


Have you found anything satasfactory? I want to make 10mg/mL solutions of 2C-I, 4-AcO-MET, and 4-AcO-DMT since I do not have a good scale.
 
The Big and Dandy dissolving thread

Hi

So it seem as lots of people have problem dissolving different chemicals.
So what if we put all the ways to dissolve chemicals in one thread so its easy to find and discuss some methods.

So you can do it in water ( distilled water may the to prefer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water )
You can also use alcohol.

And a trick to dissolve some chemicals is to heat up the water or alcohol a bit.


But now to the reason i started this thread.

After reading this post.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=1297832&postcount=8

He dissolves it with help of vitamin C (ascorbic acid). Would it be possible to dissolve other tryptamines or maybe even phenethylamines with vitamin C?

Links to papers is appreciated.
 
Hehe. We already have a B&D thread on this topic so I'll merge them for ya :)

And to add a tidbit of info to give this post some substance - I dissolve MDAI with a tiny amount of citric acid (ascorbic acid would work just as well but would require a slightly larger amount) when I prep it for IV use cos it won't dissolve without it, in my experience. Not sure if that would matter so much for oral or rectal use - may well help for rectal actually but careful how much acid you had to avoid a bit of a vicious ring sting 8o
 
Shambles said:
Hehe. We already have a B&D thread on this topic so I'll merge them for ya :)

And to add a tidbit of info to give this post some substance - I dissolve MDAI with a tiny amount of citric acid (ascorbic acid would work just as well but would require a slightly larger amount) when I prep it for IV use cos it won't dissolve without it, in my experience. Not sure if that would matter so much for oral or rectal use - may well help for rectal actually but careful how much acid you had to avoid a bit of a vicious ring sting 8o
Click to expand...


Did not see this thread sorry for creating another one but thanks for merging them.

It's interesting but really feels like i need to brush up on my chemistry skills, BL don't happen to have a FTP with lots and lots of e-books or anything.
 
suburbantoker said:
Have you found anything satasfactory? I want to make 10mg/mL solutions of 2C-I, 4-AcO-MET, and 4-AcO-DMT since I do not have a good scale.
Click to expand...

beware preparation of large amounts of 4-subsituted tryptamine compounds. at the very least you must worry about hydrolysis (cleavage by water) of the acetate ester and possible qualitative effects that the resulting mixture of drugs can produce (for more detail see the 4-AcO vs 4-HO thread)

you must also worry about subsequent degradation of the hydroxyindole compound. people have reported a color change (green, blue, brown, black and a rainbow of other possibilities) while others have pointed out that there is no subjective loss in potency.

2C-I is readily soluble in distilled H2O at 10mg/ml but since you do not have a good scale I would suggest using 1mg/ml because you do not want to introduce uncertainty at a point where it can be easily avoided. at a lower concentration, you have a safer margin of error at the dosing side even though you have a terrible error margin at the weighing side.
 
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