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Miscellaneous The Big & Dandy Psychedelics of the Future Thread

Some crackhead on the streets tried to sell me some 4-allyl-2,5-dimethoxypenethylamine the other day. Said it was the same as methamphetamine.

I doubt it, but don't see why it wouldn't be active, or why the DOAL form wouldn't be stronger than the 2CAL form.
 
He says that vinyl amine is not stable.

Enamines and imines are interconvertible and we can't know if the molecule is a vinylamine or an imine beacause the electrons are constantly moving ; the molecule is both. The problem is that imines react with H2O to give a carbonyl (here, like fastandbulbous said, the vinylgroup is transformed into acetaldehyde).

this case is called "tautomerism" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautomer

I thing the fluoro-alkyl groups are maybe interesting.

bis(2-fluoroethyl)-T
or bis(2-fluoroethyl)amide of lysergic acid !
 

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I did post explaining why you can't get N-vinylamines but it seems to have disappeared. N-vinylamines (or anything where the carbon the nitrogen is attached to has a double bond to another carbon atom) will rearrange to the imine structure (tautomerism a la keto-enol), which isn't too stable and is inclined to undergo hydrolysis to a lesser amine (ie secondary to primary) and a C=O bond; N-vinyltryptamine would very quickly become tryptamine and acetaldehyde
 
I'm probably writing this wrong, but N,hydroxy N,methyl alphamethyphenethylamine might be a big seller. Might attract alot of unwanted attention.
 
^Well, your description of this vinylamine degradation doesnt apply, though, to an allyl chain because the carbon atom attatched to the nitrogen does not have a double bond to the next carbon in the chain, right?
 
Well, your description of this vinylamine degradation doesnt apply, though, to an allyl chain because the carbon atom attatched to the nitrogen does not have a double bond to the next carbon in the chain, right?
Click to expand...


Correct. Two carbons are in front of that double bond. That is why DALT (n,n-diallyl-T) exists while 'divinyl' tryptamine does not.
Click to expand...

'Once a teacher, always a teacher' appears to be somewhat true in my case. Right class, for doing so well you can all treat yourselves to the psychedelic of your choice (that feels wrong just thinking/writing it as in my mind's eye all I can see is one of my old form/registration classes!)

The thought that someone I taught might be a BL is quite unsettling really
 
N-Methyl-N-allyltryptamine,this is our classic MALT.Might have some GABA-ergic side-effect :)

Seriously,it might be as good as MPT.But so far we have no clear science if the allyls versus the propyls are interchangeable or are of quite different nature.Theres a MPT thread btw on ADD,unfortunately labeled as "MPT inactive?".

Since I'm back online again (hey,for about a month they couldn't fix my net connection on my new home...),I can follow the discussion again and post more regularly hopefully.Somewhere in a box are my notes about the 2. experiment with MPT,quite a success.Who woulda have thought.Otoh the PIPT is in free fall...

Oh,a warning on the bis-fluoroethyltryptamine,EN21 told me the ultratoxic Fluoroacetic acid is likely to be a metabolite-this now makes sense as a series of Fluoroethylamides in an old anti-obesity project mysteriously killed several rats after a very long "incubation" period.Fluoroethylamines are a no go.

But why not Trifluoroethyl-amines?Or 1-Fluoroethyl to mimic DIPT?I have yet to see Another auditory psychedelic.
 
hugo24 said:
Oh,a warning on the bis-fluoroethyltryptamine,EN21 told me the ultratoxic Fluoroacetic acid is likely to be a metabolite-this now makes sense as a series of Fluoroethylamides in an old anti-obesity project mysteriously killed several rats after a very long "incubation" period.Fluoroethylamines are a no go.
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thanx for info.

Ok I've seen a "T+" on fluoroacetic acid (merck security sheet) but what about di- or tri-fluoroethyl amines or floropropylamines ? fluro coumpounds are interessant on 2C-T's why not in trypts ?
 
I second the suggestion for MEM. I'm actually rather surprised that this one hasn't received more attention already.

I also would be interested in the other alpha-ethyl phenethylamines as suggested by some others. Sasha and others report ARIADNE, essentially alpha-ethyl-2C-D, to be an anti-depressant at < 25mg. Knowing that 2C-D is not a potent psychedelic compared with 2C-E or 2C-I, for example, other alpha-ethyl-2C-X might produce an interesting blend of psychedelic and mood brightening effects. Who knows?
 
iom,
I like your train of thought.
Allow me to extend it.

ARIADNE is probably, like MBDB etc, a dead end.
DOM has a terrible reputation based on actual street events.
DOET on the other hand has a great one.

If anyone wants to do the math, they can.
 
Vanadium said:
thanx for info.

Ok I've seen a "T+" on fluoroacetic acid (merck security sheet) but what about di- or tri-fluoroethyl amines or floropropylamines ? fluro coumpounds are interessant on 2C-T's why not in trypts ?
Click to expand...

Fluoroacetic acid is incredibly toxic (it's an S1 poison in the UK - in the samw class as cyanides, arsenic salts etc) as it inhibits part of the Krebs cycle (aka citric acid cycle) which is essential in converting glucose into energy (ie ATP) - in fact it's licenced as a rodenticide in some countries labelled as '1080' as I recall.

If the fluoroethyl group is on a nitrogen it is metabolically cleaved to free up the 2-fluoroethyl group which inevitably ends up as 2-fluoroacetic acid; with 2C-T-21 it is directly attached to the benzene ring and isn't subject to separation from the rest of the drug molecule (so no fluoroacetic acid production). As far as I'm aware, trifluoroactic acid is a pretty nasty compound as well - it might not be as potent in inhibiting the Krebs cycle but is used in labs to denature proteins in low concentrations - not something I'd want floating around in my blood
 
Apparently Helios already telepathically communicated with the aE-PEAs and said they were a no go.

I still think they are worth a shot. aE-DOM probably has some psychedelic effects unlike the tryptamine example, AET, which is pretty much just a serotonin releaser.

I would love to see some analogues of mescaline (not 2C-x or DOX). I think keeping the 3,4,5 pattern seems interesting despite the loss in potency. TM, TE, or Escaline are in need of further study.
 
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