Health The Big & Dandy Psychedelics & Mental Illness Thread

[bluegreenman]

The Big & Dandy Psychedelics & Mental Illness Thread​

This is a subject that comes up not infrequently so we're centralizing the info here. Discuss! And try not to flame each other

-any major dude


First post:
Hello everyone,
I have been interested in entering the world of psychedelics for years. I have experience with weed, DXM, Amanita Muscaria, Salvia and the legal highs from New Zealand. I am about to embark on the great journey that is LSD, but first I have something to ask/state.

I keep seeing everywhere that if your family has a history of mental illness that you shouldn't do Psychedelics. One thing i don't get is.. who doesn't have a history of mental illness in their family? Who doesn't have that crazy uncle or great gandfather? Who has a completely clean sheet when it comes to mental illness? I mean you cant tell me that all the people that do LSD have perfect mental health in their family tree. This being said, my mother has bi polar disorder pretty badly. My fathers side is healthy mentally with the exception of my uncles, who have anxiety issues.

My question is, If I was going to develop one of these disorders, wouldn't my extensive use of the mentioned drugs have sent me into that disorder? I really cant wait to experience the legendary LSD and was just wondering if this whole "family history of Mental Illness" thing is just a way of blaming a drug for something that would have happened on its own. I mean if im predisposed because of my mother, wouldn't I have shown signs of a disorder by now after all my weed smoking, syrup drinking, salvia smoking and mario mushroom eating? I am actually considered the wise trip sitter by my friends. I have never had a genuine freak out from a drug (besides JWH... nasty stuff on OD). Do you guys think I'm safe from this whole predisposed talk? Or is this LSD trip going to give me bi polar with anxiety?

Like I said, I am not afraid of the trip itself as I have been in some crazy trips.. amanitas are no joke neither is DXM. What are your guys's opinions? Oh, and the hits I bought are supposed to be 250 micrograms. Is that way to much for a first time? Should I just half it? Thank you for your time.

 

[nearjat]

Nobody here can tell you whether or not it's safe for you to consume anything for sure, for any reason. It's not said that psychedelics "cause" mental illness to the predisposed, more specifically that they "trigger latent mental illness". So yes, the people usually would have gotten it anyway BUT the drug can bring it out earlier than it would have normally.

This MAY have happened to me. I'm predisposed to borderline-bipolar from my mother and definitely notice symptoms and have been diagnosed. But there's no way to know when or if I would've developed these symptoms had I abstained from drugs.

 

[boiledfruit]

Weed is also supposed to bring out mental disorders in people who are more likely to develop them on their own as well.

I'd say just take the whole thing if you're used to big tripping.

 

[Sega420]

OP that is not what is meant by a history of mental illness in the family.

sure everyone has a loony relative whos a bit eccentric but thats not what it means.
its on about having quite a few people in your family bloodline before you who have had schizophrenia or whatever.

personally, eccentricity runs in the males in my family on my mothers side.
my great grandfather apparently had the exact same dry twisted sense of humour as me and was just as loony.
same as most of the males. eccentricity is different though.
me, i LOVE acid. had no problems with it as of yet but hey you never know.

even someone with a totally clean slate for mental health can take lsd just once and be broken forever. set and setting, my friend.
mitch mitchell, the drummer for one of the bands hendrix played with was paranoid as fuck for the rest of his life after just ONE lsd experience.
and he had no family history of mental illness as far as i know.

these chemicals are extremely powerful psychological drugs and should be respected as such and NEVER underestimated.

 

[bighooter]

i have a history of mental illness and suicide in both sides of my family

yet I will still take LSD even though ive yet to experience it without being on meds (mirtazapine)

 

[QuasiModo]

You know what? Every motherfucker can look at his family tree and find a nut. Ultimately it is YOU who will decide if being insane is more important than living a well adjusted, happy and FREE life. Every fuckin hypochondriac in america wants to ask themselves "hm i wonder if i'll end up like unkle jimbo" before dosing acid. Guess what? You are not uncle jimbo. You are not your cousin. You are you and you have decisions and LIFE inside of you that you cannot allow to be obscured by mental illness.

If you feel your sanity hanging by a thread, stop tugging at the thread.

 

[Sega420]

aye but Quasi, genetics DO play a rather large part in wether or not someone has a choice.

 

[QuasiModo]

So what? My mother is the most hardcore kind of bipolar. You know what I discovered? My favorite kind of mania is hypomania, so I stay in that kind of mania. You have more control than you'd like to think, and most people are capable of this kind of perpetual ecstatic happiness and concentration + positive decision making that hypomania makes you capable of.

Its like doors. Every time you decide against fear and for positivity and happiness you become more predisposed to happiness. The more often you say to yourself "I can't handle x situation" the less situations you will be able to handle. Our brains learn better and faster than anything else on the planet. These behaviours which are negative are learned behaviours, so can positive behaviours be learned.

 

[Sega420]

i meant have a choice in wether or not psychedelics bring shit to the surface.

 

[Darkmatter77]

I keep seeing everywhere that if your family has a history of mental illness that you shouldn't do Psychedelics.

If your family has a history of mental illness then there is a higher risk for you than for others. If your family doesn't have a history of mental illness that doesn't mean that there is no risk.

These are hallucinogen related disorders which may affect those whose family doesn't have a history of mental illness:

Hallucinogen-related disorders
* Hallucinogen
* 305.30 Abuse
* 304.50 Dependence
* 292.89 -Induced anxiety disorder
* 292.84 -Induced mood disorder
* 292.11 -Induced psychotic disorder, with delusions
* 292.12 -Induced psychotic disorder, with hallucinations
* 292.89 Intoxication
* 292.81 Intoxication delirium
* 292.89 -persisting perception disorder
* 292.9 -Related disorder NOS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV_Codes#Hallucinogen-related_disorders

And

F1x.7 Residual and late-onset psychotic disorder
A disorder in which alcohol- or psychoactive substance-induced changes of
cognition, affect, personality, or behaviour persist beyond the period during which a
direct psychoactive substance-related effect might reasonably be assumed to be
operating.

http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/terminology/ICD10ClinicalDiagnosis.pdf

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization_disorder

The disorders which may break out because your family has a history of mental illness are schizophrenia and delusional disorder, afaik. If you had any traumatic/abusive experiences during childhood, then you might also develop bipolar disorder or another personality disorder. Though I doubt that any personality disorder would break out during or shortly after a psychedelic experience.

If you try LSD then don't think about this stuff during the trip. Psychedelic substances can mimic psychosis/schizophrenia. That doesn't mean you're a psycho or schizophrenic, or that the undesired symptoms will be permanent.
Also, 250ug is a lot for the first time but it won't kill you. If you're anxious before the trip take a half. If you're not anxious take it all. Because you probably don't want anxious thoughts influence a 250mics trip, which might be rather hard to handle.

 

[bluegreenman]

Thanks for all your replies I am what I believe to be a responsible user. I always take set and setting into account, and always spread my trips atleast 2 or 3 months apart. I have never even been to a "party" and do not drink. I feel healthy both physically and mentally, besides some bouts with depression (who doesn't get them) I know that these disorders are partly genetic, but I think its more on the environment that you were raised in than your actual genetics. I am far from insanity this Saturday is the big day, and i couldn't be more excited. My set and setting are ideal for me. Just one close friend and a house far enough from society that I can go outside if i feel the desire to.

One more question though. If I am ready to stop tripping after the full 12 hours, and am still tripping, will an antipsychotic end the comedown part. I mean after I have experienced the intense life changing part. I can get one of my mothers lol I also have xanax on hand, not because Im afraid to have a bad trip, but I think its responsible just in case I go nuts and try to hurt my friend or run out in the streets Just as a safety precaution. P.S. aren't we all a little eccentric?

 

[bluegreenman]

So what? My mother is the most hardcore kind of bipolar. You know what I discovered? My favorite kind of mania is hypomania, so I stay in that kind of mania. You have more control than you'd like to think, and most people are capable of this kind of perpetual ecstatic happiness and concentration + positive decision making that hypomania makes you capable of.

Its like doors. Every time you decide against fear and for positivity and happiness you become more predisposed to happiness. The more often you say to yourself "I can't handle x situation" the less situations you will be able to handle. Our brains learn better and faster than anything else on the planet. These behaviours which are negative are learned behaviours, so can positive behaviours be learned.

I like the way you think! this is the way I look at it also. If I sit there everyday and say "oh no! oh no!, Im going to get bi polar!" then I sure am going to get it. Thats why when I meditate I meditate on a healthy mindset and keep my thoughts positive as much as possible.

 

[radric davis]

my uncle has debilitating schizofreinia, many othr of my uncles or aunts have extreme bi-polar or major depression. In my teens i had severe depression and began to use drugs including psychedelics. Today i would not consider myself depressed but at 19 I'm nearing the age where schizofreinia would manifest. I still use marijuana heavily and psychedelics once in awhile. I have heard a million times i need to stop to "avoid schizofrenia". I guess in the next few years we will see what happens but something inside me tells me psychedelics will not cause/bring out schziofrenia.

 

[bluegreenman]

my uncle has debilitating schizofreinia, many othr of my uncles or aunts have extreme bi-polar or major depression. In my teens i had severe depression and began to use drugs including psychedelics. Today i would not consider myself depressed but at 19 I'm nearing the age where schizofreinia would manifest. I still use marijuana heavily and psychedelics once in awhile. I have heard a million times i need to stop to "avoid schizofrenia". I guess in the next few years we will see what happens but something inside me tells me psychedelics will not cause/bring out schziofrenia.

I think its based on the person. If you feel like you are healthy mentally then dont even entertain the idea that you will develop anything. The more you entertain those thoughts, the deeper you will get into noticing "symptoms" when those symptoms are most likely just normal human depression and the such. Its sad that these doctors have us all afraid of some genetic disease whether it be mental or physical. They really have control of a lot of people and I believe they cause the disorders by telling someone they might get it. Thats planting an idea, and ideas can grow to define a person... lol yes its an inception quote XD

 

[QuasiModo]

i meant have a choice in wether or not psychedelics bring shit to the surface.

Newsflash, psychedelics bring shit to the surface for EVERYONE. That shit is the same shit you've been putting their your entire life. Nothing more nothing less. It brings the mind forward.

EDIT: This is not to say "mental illness" can't be achieved in those prone to it, of course.... I only know of one individual out of all my friends who have used psychedelics who is like this. He always was a huge asshole, one of those people who had no respect for anybody and was constantly talking shit. His psychiatrist told him he had tourrettes and possibly schizophrenia after he used LSD and DOx blotter paper very irresponsibly over the summer of 2009. He also happens to be a hypochondriac, like most Americans, and so fully used his new license to be obnoxious and pretend he was seeing shit constantly.

 

[nearjat]

Quasi man, I'm sure some 16 year olds reading you post might feel super empowered by you giving them permission to take control of their mental health, using their brains. But this is a harm reduction forum, and there's more evidence out there to suggest mental illness is real for some people and beyond their control, than to suggest to that they're just "weak" and bring it on themselves. That's retarded. In fact, sounds like the shit Charlie Sheen keeps saying on TV! And holy shit! He's extremely manic! lol

That'd be pretty cool if I could've avoided my mental health problems by denying them. But the fact is the symptoms fucked up my life before I even knew what the words PTSD, bi-polar disorder or OCD meant. I thought I was fuckin' fine until before shit went so bad I couldn't ignore it.

Not referring to the connection to psychedelics right now, just your wildly incorrect ideas about mental illness.

 

[QuasiModo]

Quasi man, I'm sure some 16 year olds reading you post might feel super empowered by you giving them permission to take control of their mental health, using their brains. But this is a harm reduction forum, and there's more evidence out there to suggest mental illness is real for some people and beyond their control, than to suggest to that they're just "weak" and bring it on themselves. That's retarded. In fact, sounds like the shit Charlie Sheen keeps saying on TV! And holy shit! He's extremely manic! lol

That'd be pretty cool if I could've avoided my mental health problems by denying them. But the fact is the symptoms fucked up my life before I even knew what the words PTSD, bi-polar disorder or OCD meant. I thought I was fuckin' fine until before shit went so bad I couldn't ignore it.

Not referring to the connection to psychedelics right now, just your wildly incorrect ideas about mental illness.

LOL oh yea. Well hypomania sure is a "mental illness" as described by the pharmecuetical industry but I think its a pretty desireable state of mind. To any 16 year olds, no using MDMA every weekend will not result in hypomania. Happy?

 

[nearjat]

I would take it further than "as described by the pharmaceutical industry".. It's a mental illness because in many people it leads to very, very detrimental decisions and a generally assholish persona. And not many people are just manic, seems more common to be manic-depressive (bi-polar). I'm not saying I like the way people throw SSRIs around like candy. Just trying to be fair.

 

[QuasiModo]

I would take it further than "as described by the pharmaceutical industry".. It's a mental illness because in many people it leads to very, very detrimental decisions and a generally assholish persona. And not many people are just manic, seems more common to be manic-depressive (bi-polar). I'm not saying I like the way people throw SSRIs around like candy. Just trying to be fair.

Ahhh, see but the marked difference between hypomania and bipolar disorder is the lack of clouded decision making and deppressive states. It is a mania of success. I wouldn't doubt Charlie Sheen is hypomanic, though he goes into rage/attack mode so he has some other issues. The lead singer of Radiohead has described himself as hypomanic. It's a good thing. (you read that last sentence in Martha Stewarts voice.)

 

[nearjat]

Ok cool so hypomania is fine, but originally both of us were just talking about mental illness in general.