The Big & Dandy Psychedelic Piperazines Thread

[Morninggloryseed]

Funny coming from a guy whose nick is that of one of the most sickening and poisoning psychedelic, IMO 8)
From LSA, I get nausea(even after puking everything I had in me), stomachPAIN, headaches, plain dysphoria while tripping, and shitty legcramps during and after the trip.
mCPP toxicity pales in comparisation to this..

If that is the kind of trip I got from them, do you really think I would take a name after them? 8)

The seeds have a long history (as old as any recorded history) that needs no defending. You may have found no value in them, but the fact that they are an ally to many is well established.

 

[Mona Lisa]

Does anyone else notice when you fart or shit, you can smell something to do with the mCPP.. It's a unique fishy but chemical smell.. I remember the smell quite well from some pink DVDs.

Haven't notice this, though I eat a lot of fish, which might be why, LOL

 

[izo]

i've never noticed problems when bzp or tfmpp kicks in, but this may be related to relative low dosages i take (although 30mg bzp IS really low dose).

these substances do not seem to be made for excessive consumption. i mean, people can go through massive amounts of meth or the nor counterpart without getting any physical problems like headache or nausea. i also didnt notice any interest in redosing piperazines, contrary to stimulants based on the pea sceleton.

what is most interesting for me atm is the difference between benzyl and phenylpiperazines. unfortunately there are hardly any reports about ringsubstituted benzylpiperazines like the one mentioned here.

 

[Sprinklervibes]

If that is the kind of trip I got from them, do you really think I would take a name after them? 8)

The seeds have a long history (as old as any recorded history) that needs no defending. You may have found no value in them, but the fact that they are an ally to many is well established.

I'm just saying, you shouldn't dismiss a chemical just because you read bad things about it, otherwise you should've dismissed LSA too. To me, reports(of friends and on the internet) sound generally more positive than those of LSA. Everyone reports nausea and legcramps. Whereas with mCPP, not everyone has worrying side-effects.

And who says I've found no value in LSA? If I didn't I wouldn't have tried them on 4 different occasion.

Nauseating effects are a far cry from neuro- and physical toxicity.

I suppose you(or we, or anybody) know everything about this neuro- and physical toxicity? Damn, teach me about it, then!

 

[slippy sleeveen]

I sometimes find that when my brain becomes overstimulated, I become nauseas just from that alone. When everything is crawling in my vision and I cannot close my eyes to escape the visuals due to intense CEV's, sometimes one can get overwhelmed and become sick. It has happened to me. A lot of this is psychological I think, but when your stomach tells you "ohhhhhhh FFFUUUUCCCK THIS !!!!!!" and starts churning horribly, that is not so much psychological. It happens to me on mushrooms all the time, on and off for the duration of the trip. Usually with mCPP, if I get the nausea, it disappears after the first hour.

Oh yeah, another thing to note to it, drink plenty of water. I remember drinking about 10 glasses of water over the course of 3 hours and never once having to use the restroom.

 

[Sprinklervibes]

I think it's indeed the psychological side of things that cause the nausea.. mCPP affects the serotonin receptors in a different way than classic psychedelics IIRC. Kind of like how MDxx chemicals can also make people nauseous.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I'm just saying, you shouldn't dismiss a chemical just because you read bad things about it, otherwise you should've dismissed LSA too. !

No, not at all. In the first place, I “got into” morning glory seeds in 1992. There were no internet postings, so all I had to go on was that morning glory has a long, long, long, long, long, long history of use as a psychedelic along-side mushrooms in that part of the world. Its flowers decorate countless statuettes, temples, and decorations both past and present in Central America. It has been studied, the active principles are known, and the long-term effects seem non-existent. There were no first-hand accounts except H. Osmond’s experience with R. Corymbosa in his apartment…which was quite positive.

Everything about your analogy still is silly because none of those things can be said for mCPP or the other phenylpiperazines. And even with chemicals I’ve used that do not have a long history (the 2C family for instance), at least there is a few decades of documented usage behind some of them….And many have been examined in animal life. Again, the same cannot be said of mCCP and its counterparts.

I don’t need to take mCCP to judge the fact that there are a lot of unknowns that make me uncomfortable. At least with the 2Cs and psilocin relatives….people could definitively say…yeah this drug is a psychedelic along the lines of psilocin. People don’t even know what to classify mCCP as…it’s not exactly an empatheogen, not exactly a psychedelic or stimulant.

Many psychedelics produce unpleasant physical side-effects in the beginning. Actually, as far as the “organic” ones….most of them do….not a single report on peyote, iboga, or ayahuasca fails to mention nausea, vomiting, and other fun calamities. This is a far cry from a series of drugs best known for being de-wormers…with ZERO human data. If you can’t see a difference between these factors, I’d spend more time re-evaluating what you put into your body.

If you like it, I’m glad you have a new ally. I’ll pass.

 

[Xorkoth]

I suppose you(or we, or anybody) know everything about this neuro- and physical toxicity? Damn, teach me about it, then!

No, I'm not trying to say anything about mCPP or morning glory seeds here. Nausea and cramps do not necessarily mean they're toxic, nor does it mean piperzines are. Nor does it mean lack of these effects means that they aren't toxic. I'm just trying to say that you shouldn't assume MGSs are more toxic than mCPP based on your experience of nausea and cramping.

I'm certainly no expert on the physical- and neurotoxicity of any drugs. But neither are you

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I'm not neurotoxic...just bored. It's slow season.

 

[Sprinklervibes]

No, I'm not trying to say anything about mCPP or morning glory seeds here. Nausea and cramps do not necessarily mean they're toxic, nor does it mean piperzines are. Nor does it mean lack of these effects means that they aren't toxic. I'm just trying to say that you shouldn't assume MGSs are more toxic than mCPP based on your experience of nausea and cramping.

I'm certainly no expert on the physical- and neurotoxicity of any drugs. But neither are you

Oh, never mind then. I thought you implied that mCPP was physically and neurocologically more toxic than LSA.

MGS: okay, looks like we got different views on things. Fine by me..

 

[shamantra]

Parafluorophenylpiperazine

Hi, I have obtained a piperazine called parafluorophenylpiperazine (aka 1-(4-fluorophenyl)piperazine aka pfpp aka flippiperazine aka fluoperazine aka 4FPP) in pure powder, its described on wikipedia as a cross between prozac and LSD, im not sure how accurate this comparisment is. First I like to hear if anyone here has experience with it and in which dosages it gives psycadelic effects. I tried 25mg mixed in a glass of OJ and drinked and the effects was not exactly psycadelic but it was pretty stimulating, it took 3 hours before i notived any effect from this. Im curious if this piperazines can be taken in any other way such as IV, IM or insufflation for a faster onset? I have not read anything about piperazines taken IV so im wondering if this is because its a bad idea for some reason i cant think of lol. Any help and input is appriciated.

 

[rulerofthecosmos]

i would NOT recommend IV or insuffulating piperazines!!!!!they are just plain fucking nasty!!!!!!and definatly dont believe everything you read about these products.....!ive tried quite a few and most are absolute shite!!!!!!!!!!!is this this the same shit in the 'Big Grin" in new zealand????

 

[shamantra]

i dont know about ingredients in brand name pills. I have however enjoyed BZP some in pure powder, i found it to be a nice altearnative to take when i need to clean the house but bzp is just a medium strong cns stimulant it seems with no psycadelic properties. Besides subjective opinions wheter piperazines sucks or not; is there any reason it cant be IVd, like healthwise or otherwise. I think i will try a dosage of 50mg orally to see, i can always report back because it doesnt seem to be many experience reports on this spesific substance.

just to add , since my thread got merged;
Some more info on pfpp which i find intresting to this compound in question (taken from wiki)

pFPP has been found in vitro to act mainly as a 5HT1A serotonin receptor agonist, with some affinity for 5HT2A and 5HT2C receptors. It also inhibits the reuptake of serotonin and noradrenaline.

.......

pFPP has little stimulant effects, with its subjective effects derived mainly from its action as a 5HT1A agonist [2]. Its effects have been described as similar to a cross between Prozac and LSD, both of which have significant actions as 5HT1A agonists in addition to their primary mechanism of action. pFPP is active at doses between 20mg - 150mg, but higher doses cause a range of side effects including migraine headaches, muscle aches, nausea and vomiting, which tend to discourage abuse.

[complete article can be read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFPP]

so there seems to be some side effects which has been mention before in this thread, however i was just readin experience reports on a pill called "Mash" from the funk pills range and the reports are very mixed. it seems like some experience these side effects more than others, some reports no side effects

 

[shamantra]

well, i tried 50 mg orally yesterday and the effects was very diffrent this time, i felt spaced out and i had a hard time moving, but not a hint of psycadelic effects. But it was kind of enjoyable and unpleasant at the same time. Other side effects such as headache and stuff was not present. I will give this chemical a third attempt ni a couple of weeks, if no better effects comes from it it goes down the drain like many other chemicals before it has

 

[who]

So would any of these three be even worth the money to try: mcPP, meOPP, or p-FPP? I'm not looking for deep or really even a dyed in the wool psychedelic, I have the wonderful samples of the 2C series for that. I just need a stimulant that can come close to dexedrine, if it has some trippy side effects I'll chalk it up as a +. or does anyone else have another suggestion for a good stimulant that is readily avalible?

 

[Don Luigi]

I didn't find mCpp pshychedelic in the slightest, it was wierd just not pshychedelic, felt very scummy to me. As for TFMPP, I have only tried it along with MGs and HBWR and it was not of my choosing, it was mixed in with these legal capsules I took and it seemed to detract for the pshychedelia I usually get from the seeds alone.

 

[spacefacethebassace]

I had a recent experience with 40 mg mcPP+40 mg meOPP. For me the experience was quite psychedelic, with a psilocybin-like awareness of light/dark contrasts, and the grass wanted to wiggle

Not much in the way of euphoria, although the saucer sized pupils and the subcutaneous crawling feelings were reminiscent of that serotonin flood "loved up" sensation on MDMA.

Throwing a frisbee was amazing with the psychedelic component and especially the stimulant edge, you can really feel these in your teeth.

There was a bit of a stomachache, but nothing too horrendous or even out of the ordinary when swallowing psychedelic white powders. I noticed an incredible tolerance to the effects of alcohol, and despite drinking an unhealthily large amount I never did feel "smashed" in the way that I should have.

I had read somewhere that the piperazines would be great at a rave and essentially useless in other settings, and I'm inclined to agree with that statement. They definitely have the ability to 'enhance', but by no means are they in-your-face enough to 'replace'.

 

[spacefacethebassace]

And to expand upon my previous report, I'd like to note that insufflation of mcpp produces a burning with the fire of a thousand suns. If you're a wimp with the nostril burn, don't try to snort the piperazines.

Just 10 mg of mcpp insufflated produced a definite mental and subtle physical stimulation, with a positive mood lift, a warmth in the extremities, and a richness of textures and colors in the visual field.

If not for the prohibitively painful effect of insufflating this chemical, I would name it my preferred MOA, as all of the mental and visual effects of a larger oral dose were present, but without the nasty body load that accompanies the higher dose range.

 

[izo]

afaics the known centrally active piperazines arent psychedelic at all.
the phenylpiperazines mcpp, meopp, tfmpp & pfpp, mainly acting via 5ht agonism and/or 5ht release produce a serotonin related high. that beeing the closest relation to what is subsummarized under the term psychedelic, i would say they are no psychedelics.
reports are as varying as stimulating, sedating, somewhat "trippy" or panicogenic but they have imho minor psychedelic and empathogenic effects.
bzp is considered an amphetamine like stimulant. its methods of action might be somewhat related but its subjective effects arent really that similar. i'd say plain old amphetamine has more psychedelic potential (via psychosis ) than bzp.
so maybe we should rename this to big and dandy dont they have better drugs in new zealand thread?

 

[thujone]

guess i'll bump this with my own experience. mcPP works amazing for me... i've been taking low doses of it every now and then and the experience itself is not really that amazing but it's completely calming and there's a massive afterglow effect that lasts for more than a day after a dose. to keep it up i've also been taking hefty doses of vitamin C, multi-B vitamins, and some adrenal supplement in the mornings and so far there have been no noticeable negative effects. it's not psychedelic for me but the utterly relaxed ultimately happy feeling is amazing in itself.

i've read of it being tested as an antidepressant but it was supposedly axed because it gave a vast majority of the users massive headaches but i've tried SNRIs/SSRIs recently for some depression and mcPP accomplishes exactly what those so-called antidepressants should have.