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The Big & Dandy Psychedelic Piperazines Thread

Long time lurker, first time poster. Experienced with everything from your favorite opiates to RC's back when they were "legal". Anywho, might as well start off with a recent experience with piperazines since they're all the legal rage right now and touted as replacements to some of the more popular substances.

Normally I don't feel the need to expound on the details of my trips, as everyone's experiences with well known drugs vary while at the same time ab abundance of info exists about the chemicals themselves that I don't need to talk out my ass about that night acid turned her fur coat into a goddamn wild animal. However, since reports on these little guys vary so widely...

I just got done with a combo, ~70mg of mcpp and ~170mg of meopp. Ive read many places that together they can function as some type of mdma replacement. Now, this is not to say everyone else's reports are bullshit, but my experience was mediocre at best. It would appear mcpp is certainly psychedelic, and the often used phrase "it's like a light hit of lsd or shrooms" seems to hold true. However, I dunno where the meopp factored into everything, and there was very little euphoria or pleasure goin on. Sure I was happy, cause I like happy trips and can take pretty much any substance, especially on a weak dose, to a happy place. But for the duration of the effects (peak was about 3 hours), I kept thinking "man, this ain't much better then bein sober". And that's really the end of any substance for me. I might try a slightly higher dose in a few weeks to make sure I've gotten all I can from these two, but as an experienced psychonaut, while I can say speaking in certainties is silly, it's likely there's nothing to see here.

Oh, and here's the mandatory hi, what a great forum! and all that lovely shite. good to be here.

<edit> Ran into a beautiful headache the next morning, not sure if it was from the drug or sleeping 11 hours (which is 3 longer than usual). A 3 mile jog knocked it out for the most part. </edit>
 
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Ive taken the following well-known phenyl/benzylpiperazines:
BZP (1-benzylpiperazine)
TFMPP ( 1-(3-trifluoromethyl)phenylpiperazine )
mCPP ( 1-(3-chloro)phenylpiperazine )
MeOPP ( 1-(4-methoxy)phenylpiperazine )
pFPP/"Flipiperazine" (1-(4-fluoro)phenylpiperazine )
This one is much less well known:
MDBZP ( 1-(3,4-methylenedioxy)benzylpiperazine )
And one I saw in a paper that reduced MDMA neurotoxicity in the rat, and so I synthesized and tested it by itself, and with MDMA (as far as I know, this is the only human testing done with it):
p-NO2-BZP ( 1-(4-nitro)benzylpiperazine )

Of the common ones (BZP/TFMPP/mCPP/pFPP) I like BZP, TFMPP, MeOPP and pFPP, and of these, BZP the most, even though i'm not that fond of stimulants. I dislike mCPP, it is just dysphoric and anxiety inducing for me.
BZP is a reasonable stimulant - not as good as amphetamine, but plenty of warm rushes, lots of energy, lasts about 8 hours for me. Main disadvantage is the dry mouth it causes, as well as extreme pupil dilation.
TFMPP is quite a strong psychedelic for me, i've taken up to 300mg at once, at which point I was seeing the ground fully animated, ocean-like ripples across surfaces, artwork appearing on flat walls, etc. At lower does it just gives you odd thoughts and makes everything look really detailed and high-contrast, like a HDR photograph.
pFPP is stranger, but can give some cool visuals at the low dose ranges. I haven't explored any higher than 100mg doses with it. Still, at 100mg the walls were twisting and rippling, changing color etc. Pity it feels so uncomfortable with hot/cold flushes and shivering.
MeOPP frequently gives me the feeling of a low dose of MDMA - that is, that you're coming up... but you never quite reach a peak. Also, colors go super-bright.

MDBZP is, as far as i've been able to tell, DANGEROUS. Suspected SSRI effects. I tried 500mg, and felt transient euphoria, but suffered muscle tremors, and a repeated feelings of sudden head-depressurisation (like a SNAP!) while trying to sleep (strangely enough, I WAS able to sleep okay though), which caused me to panic and was pretty close to seeking medical help! Patterns in floors surfaces for 2.5 days which also concerned me.

p-NO2-BZP, by itself at a dose of 200mg, felt plenty nice, to which I was pleased with (my baby!). Lasted around 10 hours. Nothing too exciting, just transient euphoria and a general mood lift. Suspected 5-HT reuptake inhibition.
With MDMA (80mg) however, at a dose of 100mg, with it taken as I felt the MDMA begin to wear off (so, I hoped it's 5-HT reuptake inhibition would extend the "roll"), made me PEAK for ~6 hours. Toward the end however I started to get quite hot and sweaty, and wanted it to stop because I started to feel quite uncomfortable (fortunately, I started to come down soon after this happened, phew!), so suspected mild SS. Dose too high, i guess.
 
Splatt said:
Does anyone else notice when you fart or shit, you can smell something to do with the mCPP.. It's a unique fishy but chemical smell.. I remember the smell quite well from some pink DVDs.
Click to expand...

lol, YES

have a question, been browsing and couldnt find an ideal combo for nBZP and TFMPP. What quantities (hehe tities) or ratios of the two chemicals should I try.
 
I have tried bzp, tfmpp, meopp and mcpp. the latter 3 all were pretty trippy, i think my best experiences have been on a combo of bzp and tfmpp. i'll elaborate later as i dont have the time right now
 
Mixing meopp & mcpp with other drugs

just wondering if anyone has mixed these drugs with other drugs
mainly interested in mixing with other phen's and stim's
was wondering also about mixing with cathinones and the Neo organics range
not sure where best to put this thread
 
I wouldn't. Its probably a bad headache waiting to happen (at best) or a hypertensive crisis (at worst).
 
I barely enjoy them by themselves!

I've had a few beers mixed with mCPP and meOPP at the same time, and it seemed to relax me a bit. But that's the most I've mixed with these drugs. I'm actually one of the oddballs that enjoys these things, albeit barely. If there's nothing else, it's an amusing diversion.
 
After eons of dormant slumber, the Small and Unpromising Psychedelic Piperaines Thread emerges once again with a merged thread! And is also renamed to The Developmentally Challenged Psychedelic Piperazines Thread to be more politically correct.


Actually, I've just renamed it Big and Dandy.
 
Just to stick my twopennethworth in...

I wouldn't take any of the piperazines for a couple of reasons

1) The phenylpiperazine structure is in essence a substituted aniline derivative and aromatic amines are generally nasty compounds for the human body to ingest

2) Any drug that has been labelled a 'panicogen' just sounds a disaster waiting to happen


May be that i'm just not being open minded enough to give this class a chance, but I tend to adopt these little foibles as a consequence of repeatedly seeing results confirming what I suspected (at my age I'm allowed the odd dip into the world of the irrational & reactionary =D)
 
im a bit curious about giving this class a chance, the main deterrent is i have absolutely no idea about the safety profile, and not in the common research chem way where one can extrapolate from the closest analog, in the case of piperazines i dont have a clue. if the toxicity is comparable to MDMA then i think i can do without them, but i dont know where these ideas about toxicity come from, lets not forget there are MANY pharmaceutical piperazines which have no signs of neurotoxicity, viagra being the most notable example.
 
Im in NZ, and have tried bzp + tfmpp combo's, only done it twice, both times fairly enjoyable. I dont really remember any visuals but my visual perception changed, felt kind of 'zoomed' i guess... like really focused. I played couter strike for like 6hours strait without blinking or moving my eyes away from the screen.. ok i probably blinked a couple of times but, it felt like i wasnt.


If you have more tfmpp than bzp would you have visuals? i was never aware of piperazines being psychedelic at all.
 
Piperazine is used as an anthelmintic (dewormer) in canines.
Piperazine derivatives tend to be D2 agonists.
All atypical antipsychotics are piperazines; examples include Zyprexa (olanzapine), Seroquel (quietiapine), Abilify (aripiprazole), and Geodon (ziprasidone).
Deseryl (trazodone) is a prodrug (a drug that is metabolized into) mCPP.
Trazodone is an erection enhancer and an antidepressant.
Piperazines are not mind blowingly euphoric but not all that unenjoyable either; a perfect combination for pharmaceutical company drug developers.

If anyone has experience with the following phenyl piperazines, please tell me more:
2,4,5-trimethoxyphenylpiperazine.
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenylpiperazine.
3,4-methylenedioxyphenylpiperazine.
phenylpiperazine.
N-3-indolylpiperazine.
4-chlorophenylpiperazine.
3,4-dichlorophenylpiperazine. &
3,4-dimethoxyphenylpiperazine.

Thanks.

I am especially interested in 5-methoxy-3,4-methylenedioxyphenypiperazine and
N,alpha-benzylpiperazine.
 
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I've tried mCPP and mCPP combined with meOPP. I didn't like it... it had its moments but overall just felt weird. I had minor visual distortions, and occasional waves of niceness, but mostly I felt cold alternating with hot and very self-conscious. I've got a bunch that I will probably never use.
 
well alot of people seemed to love mcpp with meopp and spirits from old neo organics and new organics range


hmmm
 
wow how can people in anyway find this stuff enjoyable. I just took 1 and 3/4 of supposed MDMA pill. Instead its some sort of piperazine combo. I can feel the stimulation but all these god damn side effects are simply not worth it. I feel like I have poison ivy all over my skin this buzz is just not worth it ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

How does one make this go away without benzos
 
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Bzp + tfmpp

This thread is long inactive, but I thought I would add my experience here, anyway in case it's helpful to anyone.

50mg of BZP and 50mg TFMPP was dissolved in juice and drunk in one shot. Effects were very slow to come on, from 60-90 minutes before I could say I was "up". Once up however, this combination was a halfway high on all counts. Music was good, but not great. Euphoria was slight to nonexistent. The body high was warm and stimulating, but only half as good as something like mephedrone or MDMA. The head trip was mild and not engaging enough to be called a hallucinogen. The stimulation, however, was a little too much. I can deal with strong stimulation when there are other factors to offset it. A nice trippy psychedelic allows you to escape your overstimulated body. A nice body high makes the stimulation feel rather good. But with this it was none of the above. Not trippy enough to be psychedelic, not lovey enough to be an empathogen, not enough body buzz to be fun.

Effects tapered off very slowly, annoyingly so. I was finally able to sleep after about 8 hours. I can't imagine how annoying this would be on a full dose instead of the half-ish dose I took. Maybe this would be fine on the 10-20mg level for staying awake, but I think there's very little value for recreational use.
 
alot of these looked good on paper, unfortunately that doesn't always (or necessarily often) translate into a useful substance. I believe the culprit was 5-HT2c agonism, no?
 
This reminds me, I've still got some TFMPP ticked away somewhere. Time for a little nostalgia trip maybe. :)

Actually I think it's PFPP. Brilliant for music appreciation if I remember right, no good for dancing tho! :D
 
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