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The Big & Dandy Psychedelic Books Thread

I think Shulgin is a bit off the walls with his idea's about MDMA personally.....wasn't here a book about plant isoquinolines or somesuch?
 
^ He idealizes it way too much.

With all due respect to to the good Dr., I personally think his taste in drugs sucks (MDA? 2C-T-7? Give me a break).
 
^I think Shulgin give special attention to his own creations and kids. Who wouldn’t

I’m not impressed with 2Cs or MDMA or any of that stuff

but 2C-E is a gem..thanks for that one Shuligin
 
swilow said:
I think Shulgin is a bit off the walls with his idea's about MDMA personally.....wasn't here a book about plant isoquinolines or somesuch?
Click to expand...

Yea, and there was also a thread discussing this very topic when I first joined this website.

Here is the book on isoquinolines Shulgin published in 2001. Not at all in the same format as PiHKAL and TiHKAL, though.
 
stealthtrucker said:
What are his off the wall ideas about MDMA?
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I just really don't think that MDMA is a suitable therapuetic agent....the downside is just too high. I also wish he didn't develop the more highly potentised compunds of the DOx class but someone would have.
 
^ I think MDMA has a lot of potential in opening you up and in therapy, for PTSD, etc. Unfortunately almost nobody is using it like that. The comedowns are NASTY especially w/dirty product and excessive recreational use, which is almost always the situation that you have in this day and age. However, I think a nasty comedown can be relieved w/supplements like 5-HTP and TLC :) and that there is definately a place for MDMA in the therapeutic arsenal. But if we're talking miracle drug my money is still on good old L, of course.

And I wouldn't hate on shulgin for the potent DOx's, as you said, someone would have, but he ain't the one soakin' sheets in them and singin' out "DOSES DOSES GOT YOUR DOSES" lol. But yeah. They could've waited 'till the legal climate around this stuff is more amicable. Matter of fact, that's the problem w/MDMA too. I think as a society and in terms our level of evolution in consciousness (as the human race) we're just not ready for some of these drugs. Bicycle Day was such a huge paradigm shift for human consciousness and it is one we are still reeling from. All the drugs in TiHKAL/PiHKAL, I don't think we're necessarily read for them. But they are there. And people like us are on the bleeding edge of psychospiritual self-exploration, and for some, that's okay, but for some, it isn't, and that's the mixed blessing that the Shulgin compounds have been.
 
Perhaps he's holding off for some reason, like for a new law pertaining to RC's?

Wouldn't it suck for Shulgin to release his magnum opus only to have the index copied verbatim into some "future drugs of abuse" bill that blanket schedules them all!

On the Shulgin front, I'm quite excited about the documentary, if it ever comes out...
 
squerll said:
^I think Shulgin give special attention to his own creations and kids. Who wouldn’t

I’m not impressed with 2Cs or MDMA or any of that stuff

but 2C-E is a gem..thanks for that one Shuligin
Click to expand...
Shulgin seems not to care about some of his most spectacular children, such as DPT and DiPT. I think DPT is has even more therapeutic potential than MDMA for both terminally ill or suicidal (in my case) people.

He also does not like Ketamine and thinks its use makes no sense, which to me is blasphemy at its finest!

*shrug* I've used MDMA exactly as Ann Shulgin prescribes (no more than twice a year, with 120mg-ish dose of powder, in a safe setting on my own) and found it profoundly blissful while it lasted but caused me to dispise being born for the whole week after.
 
^
Maybe he though DPT was just a DMT mimic and not worth as much. I haven’t had the chance to try that one but everyone seems to like it. The time frame and effects seems great for a therapeutic session.

I never got anything interesting from MDMA at all, but by the time I did it I had done lots of LSD so I was kind of comparing it to that and MDMA is was very weak compared to LSD. Just seems so shallow and syrupy, might be good for the mainstream, teenage girls seemed to get lit by it.
Hard to say, stuff that is good to us crazy psychonauts might just make the average person snap and feel like hell.
I get the impression thought that Shulgin is trying to open unexplored territory that has some space for development.
 
mdma is a very versatile chem.

At home by myself i can dig deep inside my psyche and resolve alot of issues.
I can take it with my girlfriend and have a very intimate evening of talking, making love etc.
Or i can take bit with a lil amphetamine and dance all night and feel good.

The key is to not abuse it and mdma can and will be a worthwhile chemical for a long time to come.

as for shulgins new book, well, im wondering the same thing.
Perhaps hes cautious with publishing it because he saw what has happened with the chems in tihkal and pihkal (they became popular, widespread, caused OD's, misrepresented as other drugs etc.) and now is weary about releasing it to the public.

i am damn curious about what else is out there though.
 
After the first few times, MDMA just started feeling deeply wrong to me. The high got really fake (just a bunch of ego boosting making me feel like I was doing something useful) and for weeks after I would feel headfucked, the last time I even felt suicidal. It threw off my emotions for a long time and it probably took me a half a year to rebound entirely. I also never used it frequently at all, in fact only about 15 times in my life over 6 years, most of it at the beginning of those years. So I can't help but feel negatively about MDMA as a whole. Granted, I have never had problems opening up to people and feeling love to others, so perhaps I did not need it. My first MDMA experience was a fantastic night of fun which felt quite profound, but I think my life would be exactly the same without it.

But yeah, I'm also extremely curious about the new book and have been waiting for it.
 
I can't believe more of you guys don't see MDMA as a priceless therapeutic agent... I'm guessing because we have all seen the bad it can do to people. Really though, you should do some reading on its therapeutic applications, especially to PTSD cases, MDMA is nothing short of a gift from god when it comes to people suffering from repressed memories. I posted a paper I wrote here a while ago, I dunno if it's still up or not though.


I can relate with what someone said above about MDMA looking like nothing much due to having already tried LDS. My best friend was very unimpressed with a massive first time dose of mescaline for his first time for the same reasons.
 
^^ Yeah, I just think there are other compounds which are better at dealing with repressed material that do not seem to have such a potential negative impact. 2C-T-2 comes to mind... personally that has been by far the best therapeutic agent for me. It was quite deeply psychedelic in that it split my personality/ego into its component parts and allowed the observer to remain, impartial, but still viewing the scenario with compassion and emotion. I then watched my different ego forms interact and I could identify precisely where the negative interactions were occuring and how my mind would attack itself and enter worthless anxiety loops. And then I was in a position to understand and do something about it. And unlike MDMA it left me feeling fantastic afterwards, much better than before or during. I guess what I'm saying is that I understand MDMA can be useful for certain applications, I'm just not convinced at all that it's safe for even a single use, and there just seem to be better options that perhaps are a little more difficult to get into but which probably have a higher payoff in the end without the chance of feeling suicically depressed afterwards.

Anyway, this thread is getting dragged somewhere else I suppose.
 
Dragynfyr said:
MDMA is nothing short of a gift from god when it comes to people suffering from repressed memories.
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x2 even in not so professional circumstances.
 
I can't believe more of you guys don't see MDMA as a priceless therapeutic agent... I'm guessing because we have all seen the bad it can do to people. Really though, you should do some reading on its therapeutic applications, especially to PTSD cases, MDMA is nothing short of a gift from god when it comes to people suffering from repressed memories. I posted a paper I wrote here a while ago, I dunno if it's still up or not though.
Click to expand...

Hey, Can someone explain this in detail? Or maybe a link to documentation? I had a nasty case of PTSD for about a year back in 2005 so i'm rather curious.
 
Jamshyd said:
Shulgin seems not to care about some of his most spectacular children, such as DPT and DiPT. I think DPT is has even more therapeutic potential than MDMA for both terminally ill or suicidal (in my case) people.
Click to expand...

Well, Shulgin wasn't the first chemist to synthesise DPT, but I agree that DiPT has a lot of potential, really for understanding the concept of sound processing. The reason I would say Dr. Shulging hasn't "pushed" DPT as such is because the value is already recognised (Church of the True Inner Light) and the fact that he didn't discover the analogue.

My concern with MDMA is obviously the after-affect/comedown. For some people it seems minimal, but even at its best, for others, it is hellish. Plus, the possibility of neurotoxicity isn't exactly appealing. I feel that my MDMA abuse, which ceased at least 4 years ago, defintely had a majorly negative impact on me. Of course, the setting of use was raves/doofs and lotsa dirty pills were taken, but I really don't believe -amphetamine related drugs are all that useful in the longterm.
 
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