The Big & Dandy Psilocybin Mushrooms Thread

[Obyron]

Ah, ok, cool. Out of curiosity, MJS and Obyron, how did each of you come to your viewpoints?

I'm a rationalist, and I place a lot of respect in science and reason. I believe in a spiritual side of things, but I really only concern myself with how I perceive the world and I act toward other people in it, and I don't go too overboard with it. If I believed that the spirit of an 1/8 of an ounce of mushrooms has a profound influence over my life, then I would have to believe in the spirit of ground beef, cheese, pickles, onions, bacon, tomatoes, ketchup, and mustard on my cheeseburger surely ALL have an influence on my life as well. Irrespective of the fact that they may be conspiring to make me a fatass, I just don't see that as being true.

That said, I also do not see why-- if you can believe in the spirit of a mushroom-- you cannot believe in the spirit of LSD or 4-HO-DIPT? I have had profoundly moving experiences on both that changed who I am, as well as on other substances like DOI, 4-HO-MIPT, etc., that also only exist because someone made them in a lab. I don't believe in denying myself a profound growing experience just because of Mother Nature's shortsightedness. If you're inclined toward animism and like seeing spirits in things, then I'd again refer you to PIHKAL where Sasha talked about "chemical souls."

If there IS a spirit to shrooms, and that spirit is responsible for the profoundness of trips and the quality of the experience, then there must certainly ALSO be spirits to synthetic drugs, because I have experiences of equal and greater profundity on such materials. I choose to believe in neither, but would not fault someone who believed in both. I just don't see how, logically (and I'm aware that spiritual matters are seldom logical), you could believe in one and not the other.

 

[Feels]

MJshroomer, there is a HUGE difference between being on Lithium and taking LSD, and being on Klonopin (as I am) and taking LSD. Lithium is notorious for being dangerous in combination with LSD. Klonopin is a mild sedative benzodiazepine I use to help with anxiety at nighttime, and it had no negative effects whatsoever on my tripping. You're grouping together a bunch of stuff that isn;t all related.

 

[swilow]

I had a friend in Hawaii, a person who always had access to LSD in the Islands from mainland friends, was on lithium, a prescription drug to balance ones level of personality. He had a violent reaction and started to bash is body against the wall of a department store in the heart Waikiki. He ended up in a hospital.

Later he learned that one should not mix certain drugs with such medication and especially not to take lithium which at the time had been prescribed by his doctor as a mood elevator.

This is a known effect from combining LSD and lithium. It can result in seizures. Infact, if you search, we covered this topic not long ago. But thanks for the olde news I am on SSRI's- antidepressants, which help with depression and used LSD. I can do so because I've researched it.

Now Taking aid and some pot to smooth the acid is one thing. To take acid and pharmaceuticals or opiates is not a good thing. Of course, people who do so will tell you it is cool. For your body and mind it is really not.

Says who? You? And so what? The times they are a-changing. Theres no grace or salvation in any drugs- mushrooms or not. The salvation is in you; sure, opiates might be seen as foolish by some, but most of the world considers psilocybes to be poisonous and deluding. It really only matters what the individual thinks. Why is pot acceptable, and not say, opium?

I know some Psychiatrists I personally knew i the 1980s used MDMA on patients to help them with mental problems, Cancer problems in relating to their forthcoming death., etc, some of those also would give thei9r clients 2CB after they started to come down of of the MDMA. This is not good medicine to me.

I hope you realise that you may be completely wrong here. As you may have noticed, MDMA therapy is finally beginning again with success....whats your point here? Why is soothing the death fears of people bad?

Many people take DXM and shrooms or the same with acid, and many take acid two or three times a week and then wonder why they have to eat five or more tabs or blotter to get off.

Abuse is really eat and many let the drugs control their lives. It eventually brings a bad name to the plants one is using to alter their consciousness.

Ah, well we can't allow the plants to get a bad name 8) Heavens above, what about the people your making sweeping generalisations about?

Police find people who do crank and coke, crack, meth, ice, etc mix them with acid, or bust them and find all kinds of other illegal items, guns, grass. When they bring those people in in a bust, There attitude ios see what this shit is doing to people.

Those mixtures and such cost all of us certain rights in the long run.

According to my data, the generation I presume you belong to STARTED THIS SHIT, so don't start blaming anyone but your own selves. We didn't go around the US in the '60's frying peoples heads with stupid ideas and then run and let it fall to ruins when it got too hard- thats another generation. Tell me that all these greats from the psychedelic age weren't eating bezedrine and ritalin themseves. Plus- DXM was first actually taken off the shelves in the late 60's. Why is there now?

Drugs, including mushrooms were illegalised before I was born- it annoys me to have to pursue my passion with fear of being caught.

Kids who do MDMA and smoke pot go to raves on shroom candies and X, basically neither drug is a party drug yet many do this every week somewhere in the USA a Friday or Saturday night rave is going on.

A lot of teens who do DXM and smoke pot or eat shrooms are often caught stealing car stereos, CD-Players, Game Boxes to buy a $20 dollar and up gram of budd.

Statistics on those kids who do those mixtures of drugs is very high.

What are you talking about? I want statistcics corellating the use of DXM na dmarijunan with 'kids' who are stealing exactly twenty dolars to buy a gram.

Also- can you link me to a site for GameBoxes??? Next thing, you'll be offerring us all boiled sweets and molasses, and spittin toboaccy all o'er the place, AND chewing a small length of straw. Its like my mum- she had a mobile phone, but didn't realise it was mobile. She just thought it was the new name. :D

Currently A report was recently release showing that prescription medication was now the number one drug of abuse in the United States and that prescription drugs are abused by more people than all the other illegal drugs which cops and DEA and FBI bust people for in this country.

Mixing those drugs for a cheap thrill is not only bad for the individual in the long run, but it also hurts all of us who love to learn form such plants and drugs, whether synthetic or natural.

You may be right. I don't think you are. But you may be. However, as prescription tranquiliser drugs have been common as tiddlywinks since, say 1900 (barbiturates), I think your mistaken. They are a fact, and of course they are going to be more widely abused; they are legal. There is nothing inherently bad about either a prescription drug OR a psychedelic; its the user. Only, always the user.

I also didn't mean to rant- well, not too much, but archaic ideas shit me. Sorry

 

[psychedelicious]

Obryon, right on. I think animism and panentheism (as well as pantheism) are all great viewpoints and true followers of such ideologies generally respect nature and all things very much, giving back to their world and keeping thing clean.

However, as has been said quite a bit recently on BL, one cannot deny that a synthetic drug has no spirit while a natural does have a spirit! After all, there are biosynthetic ways to produce several tryptamine "research chemicals" - injecting a psilocybian mushroom's growth media with a "RC" has been shown to yield 4-hydroxylated versions of whichever chemical was used to dope the substrate.
I also remember hearing a report of methamphetamine in an acacia. The moral of the story is that drugs which we have not yet found in nature could easily be out there. What if fungi have evolved their psychedelic-producing pathways from some other tryptamine to psilocybin, and we just weren't around to see the other drug? I don't know anything about the biology and chemistry involved here, but I have a feeling it certainly is possible. Could somebody provide some insight here? And nature isn't just limited to earth - there are plenty of other vastly different chemical systems out of this world (and many unknown systems all around us!).

In addition, drugs are all composed of the same elements, and discriminating between the spiritual and mystical significance of two chemicals with an atom of difference, saying that this one atom gives a chemical a spirit if it's in one spot as opposed to another on the other side of the ring, is a bit backwards, as I see it.

Consider DPT - it is synthetic and is the eucharist, so to speak, of the Temple of True Inner Light (an offshoot of the Native American Church). LSD, too, is seen by many (especially members of the Family, the Grateful Dead clan) as a gift from God. I personally think DXM is one of the most spiritual trips out there. I love to combine DXM with mushrooms and other psychedelics, and it has only helped me to learn more and better integrate my trips. I know many others can attest to this.

Partying with mushrooms or any other drug for pure recreation may be offensive to people who only use the fungi for religious/shamanistic purposes, but I'll be damned if mushrooms aren't one of the best things out there for having the best time ever. I don't think the mushroom spirit minds people taking shrooms for fun. The don't show it if they are pissed off at chronic mushy munchers.

Drug abuse normalizes itself. The majority of people have a certain "average" trip, while the relationship between the % of people who have "++++" trips / hellish trips is inverse. People who respect the mushroom or whatever drug still have bad trips.

Another thing I almost forgot - many drug combinations end up with unpleasant feelings, pain and damage to the body and psyche happen because of a toxic / damaging combination of drugs (where the danger comes from chemical interaction, not the mental effects), an issue with metabolization, or even an allergy.

MJS, I really do appreciate your respect for fungi and other drugs - it is very honorable! If we all thought as you do, the world would be a much safer and enlightened place, I believe, even though I don't agree with you about plant spirits.

 

[Ptah]

one cannot deny that a synthetic drug has no spirit while a natural does have a spirit!

No? Well, I deny it here and now. It's bogus.

I can see a reason to consider the life force configuration of a plant a "spirit", and I agree that it's possible to actually have some sort of meaningful communication with some of those.
I do NOT however believe that compounds, either from plant sources or from a lab, possess (or are possessed by) a "spirit".

Furthermore, I find it difficult to see the real difference between "natural" and "sythetic" i. e. "unnatural", especially when this type of reasoning wreaks havoc on the way we perceive ourselves.

You see, if the products of our labor are "unnatural", then everything we do is "unnatural".
Doing the dishes, building a home, making love (on a man made bed or not), talking, posting on druggie forums, you name it.
EVERYTHING.
Most importantly, that also means man himself is "unnatural", and as "unnatural" is pretty much synonymous with "bad" and even "sinful" (thought you were rid of that one didn't you?), humans are therefore a phenomenon unwanted by God. Oops.

An "unnatural" way of reasoning if I ever saw one.

Nice subject for a morning rant. Thanks.

 

[ectolysergic]

Most importantly, that also means man himself is "unnatural",

i agree with this. look at humanity and look at everything else that makes up this life. everything else follows a simple path and we complicate things. somewhere along the way we lost our innate nature to just 'be'. we've complicated things to the point of emotion, religion, benevolence, righteousness, fame (status), etc, etc. all of this is imposing on our innate nature. the wound so deep it's nearly impossible to heal. we've been consistantly conditioned to these things which pull us further from ourselves.

 

[Obyron]

i agree with this. look at humanity and look at everything else that makes up this life. everything else follows a simple path and we complicate things. somewhere along the way we lost our innate nature to just 'be'. we've complicated things to the point of emotion, religion, benevolence, righteousness, fame (status), etc, etc. all of this is imposing on our innate nature. the wound so deep it's nearly impossible to heal. we've been consistantly conditioned to these things which pull us further from ourselves.

I had a big, long post written in response to this but the discussion is kind of off-topic, and I didn't figure a long response from me would help. Suffice it to say that I disagree completely that "just being" is natural. If you look at Natural Selection, it's the things which are content to "Just Be" that die. Evolution is a story, four and a half billion years long, of things that were never content to Just Be. Mankind is the ultimate expression of Nature's relentless march toward greater complexity and further adaptability. In the process we've created the things that have the potential to destroy us (lifestyle-related diseases such as MRSA and diabetes, and also wars, nuclear obliteration, etc. etc.), but we will either evolve past it, created better tools to overcome it, or we'll all die. That's Nature's way.

The very fact that mushrooms even make us trip is really just a biological accident, so it's hard to say that some psychedelics are "natural" and others aren't. If you look at things like tryptamines, phenethylamines, opiates, etc., they only work because they are similar enough to "natural" neurotransmitters that they are able to compete with those neurotransmitters for real estate (serotonin, dopamine, and endorphins, respectively). If the psychedelic state can be said to be "unnatural" insofar as we are taking advantage of external substances' similarities to "natural" substances in order to reprogram our brains' "natural" working order, then how can we nitpick and say that it's more "natural" to use one substance for this than another?

All this talk of what is "natural" or "unnatural" seems to imply that Mother Nature gives a fuck, which she clearly doesn't. Nature is the ultimate abstraction of a constant state of instinctual self-preservation, and of the predator/prey relationship. It would be "natural" for me to kill and eat you for food if I were starving to death. The fact that I would be imprisoned or hospitalized for doing so is just an "unnatural" reaction of our "unnatural" legal system! If you want to talk of certain things being "natural" or "unnatural" as if that implies "right" or "wrong" then you are delving into the realm of morality and intellectual facility. The ultimate abstraction of morals and intellect has always been the divine. Logically then, it almost makes more sense to say "god wants you to use mushrooms and not 4-HO-DIPT" than to say, "Mother Nature says that mescaline is natural and 2C-E isn't."

There. Made the reply about half as long, and actually kept it somewhat on topic. There's the potential for a thread split here though, assuming there's not already a thread about this, which I'd find hard to believe!

 

[psood0nym]

There's the potential for a thread split here though, assuming there's not already a thread about this, which I'd find hard to believe!

Sure is, right here! Hopefully you wrote your longer post in a separate program so you can post it in that thread. I agree with you predominately. Most emphatically about nature not giving a shit about how high we get.

 

[Obyron]

That thread has been sleeping peacefully for a few months now, and, having read the whole thing, I definitely think it deserves the rest! The whole discussion is pretty well summed up over there, for anyone interested in reading about it.

 

[swilow]

^Aye let it sleep....

 

[psychedelicious]

No? Well, I deny it here and now. It's bogus.

I can see a reason to consider the life force configuration of a plant a "spirit", and I agree that it's possible to actually have some sort of meaningful communication with some of those.
I do NOT however believe that compounds, either from plant sources or from a lab, possess (or are possessed by) a "spirit".

Furthermore, I find it difficult to see the real difference between "natural" and "sythetic" i. e. "unnatural", especially when this type of reasoning wreaks havoc on the way we perceive ourselves.

You see, if the products of our labor are "unnatural", then everything we do is "unnatural".
Doing the dishes, building a home, making love (on a man made bed or not), talking, posting on druggie forums, you name it.
EVERYTHING.
Most importantly, that also means man himself is "unnatural", and as "unnatural" is pretty much synonymous with "bad" and even "sinful" (thought you were rid of that one didn't you?), humans are therefore a phenomenon unwanted by God. Oops.

An "unnatural" way of reasoning if I ever saw one.

Nice subject for a morning rant. Thanks.

I was talking about denial of the spirit of unnatural/synthetic drugs while at the same time insisting on the spirit of natural drugs, not flat out denying both.

It all has spirit, or it all does not have spirit. Anything can be considered to have a naturally implied existence; even abstract, human ideas are only a product of our natural minds. Society is natural, given the time we have been living in large enough groups and the evolution of the ape brain (consider the "great leap forward" where, about 50 000 yrs ago, culture - language, art, religion, tool-making, etc - began to become evident... this was a result of natural processes and eventually caused many "unnatural" things to be created) as are our various laboratory-birthed psychoactives and chemical elixirs.

We were arguing the same point, but I think you misread my post...? I'd like to hear an argument positing the spirit of natural drugs while denying the spirit of unnatural drugs. The problem with such an argument is that there is no way to say which drugs are natural and which are unnatural.

gotta run will finish later

 

[ectolysergic]

I had a big, long post written in response to this but the discussion is kind of off-topic, and I didn't figure a long response from me would help. Suffice it to say that I disagree completely that "just being" is natural. If you look at Natural Selection, it's the things which are content to "Just Be" that die. Evolution is a story, four and a half billion years long, of things that were never content to Just Be. Mankind is the ultimate expression of Nature's relentless march toward greater complexity and further adaptability. In the process we've created the things that have the potential to destroy us (lifestyle-related diseases such as MRSA and diabetes, and also wars, nuclear obliteration, etc. etc.), but we will either evolve past it, created better tools to overcome it, or we'll all die. That's Nature's way.

overcoming death is not innate human nature. it is a fear-driven hopeless ambition. emotion is a product of detachtment from ourselves. if, as you say we die - that is the course of things. getting hung up on ideations of death and fighting this innevitable event doesn't make us special. quite the opposite really. it further diminishes what we are - further removes us from everything else. it separates us when everything is not separate. for example the notion that 'death is something other than i am so i must find permanence'. this of course, is fruitless.

if we could only allow ourselves to be what we are we would flow with the moment as most everything else does. when left alone the the moment always seems to create a sort of order from chaos. all we do is complicate things.

 

[1988]

How many grams of shrooms would you say is needed to get the full experience for one person for their first time?

 

[1988]

anyone wanna help me out here?

 

[kong]

The potency varies considerably. I'd start with 2.

 

[Geist89]

Sound Distortion on Mushrooms?

This past weekend I tripped with a friend of mine. I have tripped about 4 times before, and he has tripped over 50 times before (according to him). I had the most I'd ever had this time: about 4 grams of dried P. Cubensis mushrooms.

We were walking around on the beach during sunset while I we were peaking. I noticed something that I hadn't noticed before on mushrooms, slight audio distortion. My friend turned around to tell me "Dude, the sunset looks f*$%ing ridiculous!" And his voice sounded metallic, almost robotic. On our way back to his apartment, the girl at the front desk greeted us with a "Good evening" and around the beginning of the word "evening" her voice seemed to loop rapidly for a split second. Kind of like when your computer freezes while you're playing music.

Are sound distortions normal on mushrooms?

 

[Jake1er]

i remeber going through about 50 really familiar songs on a 8.5g mushroom trip, and i swear i couldnt recognize any of the songs i went through. i know exactly what you mean with the metallic robotic sounding voice, all the songs took on that tone.

 

[catscandal]

Happens to me every time on shrooms or acid. Usually it's a lot more noticeable with distant sounds, but I also notice it a bit with my own voice or occasional nearby sounds (water pipes are very strange). But as with anything on psychedelics it depends on set and setting. If you're not paying attention to sound because you're thinking about something else, or there aren't any particularly interesting sounds about, you may not notice at all. And it may go in and out at different parts of your trip. Sound distortion is most profound for me in the first half of the plateau, and most enjoyable during the comedown.

 

[PsyGhost]

Something like that happened once to me while on mushrooms (low dose, 1.5 grams) and one pill of mdma. At some point later in the trip whenever people would talk, it would sort of rewind, then replay. Kinda freaked me out.

Another time, on a trip that went dark, I heard metallic type sound, kind of like a helicopter or something hovering above my head.

But usually I love sound distortion. Mm..mushrooms and goa trance.

 

[DarkSideoftheWall]

One vivid memory I think I will remember for a very long time (and there is a long, ridiculously funny story behind it) is when I was on my cell phone during a relatively strong acid trip. I honestly could not for the life of me decipher what this person was saying. It doesn't help that my phone has horrible reception, but whenever the person said something all I hear was fuzz and feedback, and me yelling 'what?' It must have gone on for about 2 minutes before I snapped out of it and realized that the person was saying 'the fountain'.

No, not mushrooms, but close enough.