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The Big & Dandy Phenethylamines vs Tryptamines Thread

Which class of psychedelic chemicals do you prefer?

  • Phenethylamines (Such as 2C-X, DOX and NBOMe's)

    Votes: 11 28.2%
  • Tryptamines

    Votes: 28 71.8%

  • Total voters
    39
morninggloryseed said:
Urrrg. Again, maybe for you...but for me I find MDMA very useful. And mescaline (a phenethylamine) has been used for 1000s of years, etc. The point again is that you may find MDMA 'fake' but to insist one drug is fake, and another is spiritual is quite dogmatic and evidence that you are unaware that a world exists beyond your personal experience.

How dare you say my MDMA experiences were fake. I've sampled a good half-dozen tryptamines but only two (5-MeO-DMT and iprocin) have shown to be of any worth. But 2C-E, 2C-T-7, MDA, m1, and MDMA are all invaluable to me.

And I will dare to again; MDMgay is even more fake than the people that use it.
At no point did I say that Mesculine and the like was of no benefit, my beef is with the Amphetamine Analogues, such as MDMgay, MDgay, etc. These drugs seem to provide people with delusions of grandeur like no other substance, which explains why you THINK that your MDMgay experiences were so invaluable. They gave you a fake sense of value and spirituality, which, due to your mind being clouded by these drugs, you have been unable to recognise as fake.
To insist that there is a world that exists "beyond" personal experience is quite dogmatic as well, but valid none the less.
 
cognosis said:
Give me an example of an emotio-perceptual state that is devoid of an underlining biochemical process. I double dare you.:p

I'll do better - here are just six examples;

Shiva, Allah, Yaweeh, Zeus, Athena, Vishnu.

=D
 
I.V.User said:
And I will dare to again; MDMgay is even more fake than the people that use it.
...These drugs seem to provide people with delusions of grandeur like no other substance, which explains why you THINK that your MDMgay experiences were so invaluable. They gave you a fake sense of value and spirituality, which, due to your mind being clouded by these drugs, you have been unable to recognise as fake.
T.


I can see you are just wanting to be antagonistic and angry. That's fine. But I ask you to tell me how you know anything about me, or what my experiences were like with MDMA. You don't know anything about my MDMA experiences, where I took it, with who, or what happened.

ANd how can you say that what I gained with MDMA is fake, and then tell me tryptamines aren't and that they don't cloud the mind.

What was my MDMA experience like? Who was I with, where and what happened? How do you have such insights into what happened to me?
 
I.V.User said:
I'll do better - here are just six examples;

Shiva, Allah, Yaweeh, Zeus, Athena, Vishnu.

=D
Cognitive constructs. And what is mind made of? Ever stop and wonder what is the purpose of all that endogenous dmt in your and every mammalian brain? Every symbol you encounter carries no inate meaning, you're halucinating that shit left and right. IMO, Religious technologies, mantras et al, are a means to ultilize endo-DMT to create congitive constructs --whether the idea be Shiva or some other socio-cultural manifestation. As a conscious system, learn to recognize that you are inextricably situated in a physical system; to perceive any thing --even a thought form, you need a physio-chemo basis. If you can rise ^outside-above/beyond-beside^ the physical you aren't perceiving distinctions anymore, physical reality exists independent of the observation but consciousness devoid of a physical basis(ie. context|matter) is esentially brilliant darkness.
 
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I.V.User said:
MDMgay, MDgay, etc.

well its completely apparent why he doesn't appreciate these substances, they brought out a side of him he doesn't appreciate;)
 
Sprinklervibes said:
OK, so psychedelics can show someone insights, realizations etc.
MDMA can show someone a feeling of happiness, empathy and extreme content. We have all these things in us while sober, only our "education" blocks them out for the most part. The drugs just remind us/show us that they're there.
In that aspect, the drugs are not very different. The reason MDMA feels fake to you is because your defenses are lowered and that's not how you really are in this society. But do I think the same way I do on psychedelics like I do while sober? Hell no, if that were the case they'd have me locked-up in a psychward. So why would MDMA be more fake than say, mushrooms?
I know about the invisibile shield that keeps us from showing our emotions in day-to-day life, and that the shield melts when one takes MDMA, and on become open about one's emotions. I am in day-to-day life very open, a thing most friends apreciate about me, that I always tell what I think, and never hide my honest opinion. I am a very adventorous person, who likes travelling and discovering and exploring new things. Psychedelics enhance this feeling in me, MDMA doesn't. I did MDMA a week ago, and I was with 2 close friends who both were both feeling very emphatogenic, while I wasn't feeling any different than usual, but they were, and almost everyone else is that as well when on MDMA.
 
trip.more said:
well its completely apparent why he doesn't appreciate these substances, they brought out a side of him he doesn't appreciate;)

Yeah I noted that as well. Why in this day and age do people still fear their homosexuality?
 
cognosis said:
Cognitive constructs. And what is mind made of? Ever stop and wonder what is the purpose of all that endogenous dmt in your and every mammalian brain? Every symbol you encounter carries no inate meaning, you're halucinating that shit left and right. IMO, Religious technologies, mantras et al, are a means to ultilize endo-DMT to create congitive constructs --whether the idea be Shiva or some other socio-cultural manifestation. As a conscious system, learn to recognize that you are inextricably situated in a physical system; to perceive any thing --even a thought form, you need a physio-chemo basis. If you can rise ^outside-above/beyond-beside^ the physical you aren't perceiving distinctions anymore, physical reality exists independent of the observation but consciousness devoid of a physical basis(ie. context|matter) is esentially brilliant darkness.


My take on it is that say 200 million years ago we were amphibious creatures (or similar life form,) as we developed (evolved) the "thoughts of the previous reincarnation of *us* are subducted into the brain becoming feelings or emotions if you like!
The process continues for millions of years of evolution. The original brain (amphibian one) is still at the centre of the much enlarged one but isn't used , because there are no uses for it now except perhaps as the basis!
Fast forward to modern humans ~ they consume a potent neuro-transmitter and loads of random pathways are opened up ~ the user sees things that are "alien" but I think these are messages from the brains past which have no frame of reference in our world ~ we create the nearest thing (subconsciously) to how it makes us feel ~ forgotton 150 million year old knowledge, with no frame of reference for it, will be whatever your imagination can best make of it !
Yeah I know it feels like it comes from "outside" ~ feels like a USB has been plugged into your brain with massive download power ~ connecting with the universe doesn't need to mean leaving your mind ~ maybe just opening up 200+million years of universal knowledge!
 
Xorkoth said:
:D

8)

... Just a friendly reminder to keep it friendly, friends.

Yeah, it's just frustrating when you are engaged in a great debate, and then when the person realized they are being foolish and are wrong, they won't admit it...instead resorting to childish nonesense like IV user.
 
bluedolphin, I love how your experiences and perceptions are directly opposite to mine. I think cannabis is the most useless, unpleasant of all psychedelics. I rarely indulge, and the only reason I ever do anymore is for the body high, it's as good as opiates for me, but all the mental effects are depressing/frightening.

Tryptamines I love but in general they're dark and paranoid, and I get hung up on negative things too often. Phenethylamines are great, very neutral and I usually end up learning things while on them. Finally, amphetamines are the ultimate drugs for me. While I've had more lasting impact from tryptamines and phenethylamines due to having used them for years before trying amphetamines, my MDMA, MDA, DOC, and DOI experiences were among my most profound, rewarding, and lingering trips ever. I've never had anything but completely positive effects during and days/weeks after taking amphetamine psychedelics.
 
^^ I also get very useful and lasting effects from the psychedelic amphetamines (the DOXs, anyway). Although non-psychedelic amphetamines are almost as bad for me as MDMA. They seem to be extremely archetypal and are extraordinarily psychedelic mentally and visually. They seem tombine aspects of phenethylamines and tryptamines for me and do not cause the same side effects as actual amphetamines at all, other than some palm sweating.

Phenethylamines seem to instruct me on issues of the physical world, whereas tryptamines take me beyond the physical world entirely. Both are useful, but in very different ways.
 
i think you cant compare them because they each give you a different sort of insight i have gained good insight off of both equaly but they arre different
 
even good quality street MDMA crystals that get lab-tested come out at only approx. 80% purity. All the rest must be unreacted stuff from a so-so synthesis. God knows to what extent all that is far more carcinogenic and chemical-imbalance inducing than the pure chemical without synthesis-related adulterants.
 
Hey Morninggloryseed, my good friend, I know you like those phens man, it's all good. I have had wonderful experiences with many phenethylamines and as you might know have written many glowing reports on these substances. However, as the test of time goes on, a few experiences with LSD and mushrooms prove to have been the most profound and influential.

Even a small dose of shrooms can put me in ++++ zone but I've tried 2C-D for example (I know you love that one) half a dozen times and I'm almost positive this one would never do it for me. Different brains, different chemisty, different lives, different things we're moved by in an experience, I guess.

I never meant to imply that my opinion is fact for everybody, although I probably did state my opinion in the written form of a "fact" that's just the way I write. Of all people whos opinions on this matter I disagree with, I probably respect yours the most ;)

Interesting to see people have opposite opinions and reactions to just about everything here!
 
Interesting to see people have opposite opinions and reactions to just about everything here!


It is indeed. It seems the older I get, the more and more all of the psychedelics are starting to do the same thing. The differences between a PEA and an indole are becoming less and less.

I took some 2C-D last month, and I normally associate it as being a gentle, forgiving psychedelic…but this time I was hit hard in a very LSD-like fashion. All of the things I tend to prescribe to one category of psychedelic…I am starting to see it in all of them. I don’t know if it is a factor of age, the fact that I rarely trip these days, or what. But they are all starting to just be plain-old mind-expanding. And all that really varies is the length of action…the 2C-D still lasted for only 4 hours.

Adding to that, I shared 2C-D this fall with a good friend who is quite a bit older than I. He came of age in the 70s when the psychedelics to choose from were LSD, and the rare button of peyote if you knew a source, and that’s about it. He said 2C-D reminded him of LSD, and that if I had told him it was LSD he would have never known the difference (until we started coming down during the 3rd hour.) So he never had the chance to try all of these analogues until now.

He never had any expectations going into 2C-D, so he didn’t come out of it with all of these noted differences as compared with LSD, or something else. Dunno the point I am trying to make except to say that the variance we see, as shown in this thread, probably has less to do with the actual drug ingested, and more to do with set, setting, and general expectation.

A BLer I somewhat know, who is very familiar with LSD and DOB, ate DOB-blotter and was convinced it was LSD (until GCMS showed differently.) Hoffman said only the very experienced could distinguish between mescaline, psilocybin, or LSD. As time goes on, I am begining to believe it more and more.
 
Xorkoth said:
Phenethylamines seem to instruct me on issues of the physical world, whereas tryptamines take me beyond the physical world entirely. Both are useful, but in very different ways.

This is exactly how I feel. Very well put, Xorkoth.

My relationship with MDMA has had stages in which I thought it was a very useful substance and others that I found it provided a fake experience. Not only was it for my own experience but also for my friend's reaction to it.

The first experiences were of such an emotional opening and a teaching of how feelings of friendship, love and well-being can be felt that I can't deny they were a very useful discovery. Later on it became more a social and party drug (and i have nothing against party, I love partying) though I never abused it, and then my thoughts on this substance changed, because I felt that everything we said under the influence of MDMA, while true, was not doing any better to our lives.

It's a long time since I used MDMA for the last time, and I'm really looking forward to try it again to see how i feel with it :-p

peace
 
moab said:
My relationship with MDMA has had stages in which I thought it was a very useful substance and others that I found it provided a fake experience. Not only was it for my own experience but also for my friend's reaction to it.
By 'fake experience' do you mean something that doesn't exist in ordinary, everyday life? If so, what's wrong with that? Art also provides plenty of "fake experiences" that are amazing.
 
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