The Big & Dandy Phenethylamines vs Tryptamines Thread
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psilocybonaut
Bluelighter
Phenethylamines vs. Tryptamines
In your guys opinions, do you think that the insight or life experience gained from the use of MDxx compounds such as MDMA, MDA, MDE, etc. compares in any way to the insight gained from a powerful tryptamine expedition? Believe me, I know that the feelings/insights from these compounds are very different, but my question is do you think that the insights gained from both these different classes of drugs compare in extraordinariness/helpfulness?
This hypothetical question would be if you were to take a 350mg dose of MDMA and compare it to a 300-500ug dose of LSD. You would then compare the meaningfulness and validity of the insights and experience gained.
In my opinion, although some (mostly emotional) insight can be gained from MDxx compounds, I believe that tryptamines give you much more meaningful insights about your life. I do think that PEAs such as MDxx compounds DO have a huge potential in certain specific circumstances, like psychotherapy.
Please input your two cents, I am very curious.
In your guys opinions, do you think that the insight or life experience gained from the use of MDxx compounds such as MDMA, MDA, MDE, etc. compares in any way to the insight gained from a powerful tryptamine expedition? Believe me, I know that the feelings/insights from these compounds are very different, but my question is do you think that the insights gained from both these different classes of drugs compare in extraordinariness/helpfulness?
This hypothetical question would be if you were to take a 350mg dose of MDMA and compare it to a 300-500ug dose of LSD. You would then compare the meaningfulness and validity of the insights and experience gained.
In my opinion, although some (mostly emotional) insight can be gained from MDxx compounds, I believe that tryptamines give you much more meaningful insights about your life. I do think that PEAs such as MDxx compounds DO have a huge potential in certain specific circumstances, like psychotherapy.
Please input your two cents, I am very curious.
So far, no drug (other than ketamine, but I will leave that out of this discussion in order to make my point) has even come close to leaving me with lasting, permanent changes to my psyche, as MDMA has. LSD sure has served a very important purpose to me, as have other tryptamines, but nothing (including several other phenethylamines) has ever come close to being as therapeutic and heart-opening as MDMA has been. It has a special place in my life, and I've only done it a couple dozen times, as opposed to the many many hundreds of times I've done LSD.
Therefore, yes, I do believe that MDxx substances are just as insightful as tryptamines. Tryptamines just tend to be more about my place as a spark of consciousness within the entire Universe, whereas MDMA was all about my place as an individual with thoughts, feelings and emotions, and how I inter-relate with everyone else I'm sharing this planet with.
I hope that makes sense.
(disclaimer: the use of pacifiers and glowsticks with MDMA negates any and all insight potential of this drug!
)
Therefore, yes, I do believe that MDxx substances are just as insightful as tryptamines. Tryptamines just tend to be more about my place as a spark of consciousness within the entire Universe, whereas MDMA was all about my place as an individual with thoughts, feelings and emotions, and how I inter-relate with everyone else I'm sharing this planet with.
I hope that makes sense.
(disclaimer: the use of pacifiers and glowsticks with MDMA negates any and all insight potential of this drug!
)psilocybonaut
Bluelighter
That's a great interpretation and representation of your insights, Church. Thanks for your input on the subject. I hope we receive some more opinions from others.
Thanks so much mods/creators, this forum/site has helped me a lot and has been fun to be a part of so far. You guys are very knowledgable. I feel like I'm from another planet sometimes when trying to talk to a "normal" drug using friend about obscure psychedelics. They're like, "Whaaa? So it's like acid then!?" I'm glad to have finally met some people with more than an iota of intelligence.
BTW, how many posts do I need to have in order to post polls? Or maybe I can post them already, but I just don't know how (if so, can someone elaborate for me?). Or is it something only mods can do?
Thanks so much mods/creators, this forum/site has helped me a lot and has been fun to be a part of so far. You guys are very knowledgable. I feel like I'm from another planet sometimes when trying to talk to a "normal" drug using friend about obscure psychedelics. They're like, "Whaaa? So it's like acid then!?" I'm glad to have finally met some people with more than an iota of intelligence.
BTW, how many posts do I need to have in order to post polls? Or maybe I can post them already, but I just don't know how (if so, can someone elaborate for me?). Or is it something only mods can do?
turkeyphant
Bluelighter
Church said:So far, no drug (other than ketamine, but I will leave that out of this discussion in order to make my point) has even come close to leaving me with lasting, permanent changes to my psyche, as MDMA has. LSD sure has served a very important purpose to me, as have other tryptamines, but nothing (including several other phenethylamines) has ever come close to being as therapeutic and heart-opening as MDMA has been. It has a special place in my life, and I've only done it a couple dozen times, as opposed to the many many hundreds of times I've done LSD.
Therefore, yes, I do believe that MDxx substances are just as insightful as tryptamines. Tryptamines just tend to be more about my place as a spark of consciousness within the entire Universe, whereas MDMA was all about my place as an individual with thoughts, feelings and emotions, and how I inter-relate with everyone else I'm sharing this planet with.
I hope that makes sense.
(disclaimer: the use of pacifiers and glowsticks with MDMA negates any and all insight potential of this drug!
Beautifully said and I agree with everything you said especially your last two paragraphs. My gut reaction to this question would have been to say that tryptamines are far more insightful, but thinking about it I realise that you are right and they are both insightful but often in entirely different ways.
djfriendly
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2002
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- 1,447
Take 350mg MDMA and you likely won't remember much that happened. This is a ridiculously high dose. No memory, leads to no useful insights.
Morninggloryseed
Bluelight Crew
I would have to agree with what Church said, and he has saved me the trouble of typing all of that out. 
psilocybonaut
Bluelighter
Lets say 250mg then.
I have to say I've had the exact opposite experience. I've mainly found MDMA a transitory mental shift that left violently. I might even feel a wonderful glow for a day or so afterwards, but the weight of insight doesn't seem as heavy as LSD. And MDMA is a substituted PEA which I realize is implied but why not just amphetamine then or MDMA and MDA in the title? I'm just curious about the language there. Give us dyslexic's a break. Oh and just to give you kids something to think aboooot. LSD has skeletal structures of both tryptamine and DOM. It's provided the catalyst for the psychedelic revival, but it's not a "typical" hallucinogen. It's a fairly novel one. Just keep that in mind too.
Peace,
PL
Peace,
PL
Chronik Fatigue
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2005
- Messages
- 5,735
They don't even come close to comparing in my book. PEA's fucked me up, tryptamines went a long way towards healing the damage they did.
Splatt
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2001
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- 9,112
These days no drugs give any real useful insight for me, be it psychedelics, MDMA or whatever. But the first and second times taking MDMA it did leave me with some lasting changes and views. Now it just turns me into a retard with one eye open, the other rolled into my skull, with one side of my face gurning thinking the same psychotic and delusional thoughts I have been connecting for the past couple of years.
I don't think you can gain any decent insights without having written another chapter in the book of your life. No changes, no insights.
I don't think you can gain any decent insights without having written another chapter in the book of your life. No changes, no insights.
Might that be the insight? Humans are meant to roam the open savannahs dude.... whoooaa.... go on that trek in the outback Splattie m'boy! You've been dreaming of it for ages! Maybe the lesson is don't do drugs. I cannot answer for you.
But uhh... ever thought of eating wayyyyy more to "out-drug" the negativity? Is this a common thought while really spun out? I don't advocate it I'm just curious.
Peace,
PL
But uhh... ever thought of eating wayyyyy more to "out-drug" the negativity? Is this a common thought while really spun out? I don't advocate it I'm just curious.
Peace,
PL
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
250mg is still ridiculously high dose. The negative periphereal effects of 250mg are going to be quite intense and distract from any meaningful insights/breakthroughs imo. This is a huge flaw in the MDMA experience, but can be mitigated by keeping the dosage level appropriate (but does not quite have the ready possibility for 'peak' experiences chemicals like psilocybin, LSD, DMT, etc). 125mg is about the most MDMA you probably want to take if you are after insight over your own life. Of course, most people have no idea what dosage level they are taking when they take a 'roll.' This is why I recommend testing, and washing your pressed pills to attempt to get a pure product (although most washes you do won't discriminate between amphetamine/methamphetamine/methylenedioxymethamphetamine, just as most tests you do won't discriminate between a mix of chems) .
And, no, I disagree with your thesis that MDMA is somehow more meaningful than LSD, mushrooms, etc, even though I DID have a +4 experience on MDMA. I think in the long run mushrooms, DMT, and 5-MeO-DMT have served me better.
I think its also worth mentioning that very few people become addicted to LSD or mushrooms, while quite a few people try MDMA and continue on with it to abusive levels of use (thus it does not have the profile of one of the Great Ones).
I've yet to have any breakthrough on any other phenethylamines (outside the MDxx family), but hopefully will soon plugging 11mg of 2CE!
And, no, I disagree with your thesis that MDMA is somehow more meaningful than LSD, mushrooms, etc, even though I DID have a +4 experience on MDMA. I think in the long run mushrooms, DMT, and 5-MeO-DMT have served me better.
I think its also worth mentioning that very few people become addicted to LSD or mushrooms, while quite a few people try MDMA and continue on with it to abusive levels of use (thus it does not have the profile of one of the Great Ones).
I've yet to have any breakthrough on any other phenethylamines (outside the MDxx family), but hopefully will soon plugging 11mg of 2CE!
sillycybe
Bluelighter
the healer versus the soul stealer. :D
Psych0naut
Bluelighter
From the MDxx compounds I have only tried MDMA(well, and MDPV but that doesn't count) and I still see it as a very fake drug, with generally fake insights. When you're on it you love anyone, even complete strangers are your best friends, and once the MDMA has lost it's effect and your back to baseline, you're usually grodgy, and you realise you don't mean a thing of what you said under MDMA's influence, like you never want to loose contact with your friends, and you're going to keep contact with the people you've just met, in my opinion it's just a "fake" drug.
On the other hand, phenethylamines like the the 2C-x and DOx compounds are just like tryptamines with the insights they give you, which you usually still agree with after the drug has lost it's effects and you're back to baseline again.
On the other hand, phenethylamines like the the 2C-x and DOx compounds are just like tryptamines with the insights they give you, which you usually still agree with after the drug has lost it's effects and you're back to baseline again.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
PsychOnaut, thanks for the input, but recognize that is YOUR experience. Others experience empathogens differently.
I am still tingling with euphoria from my M1 trip 2 weeks ago. I still feel the love and am still trying to reach out and fulfill my dreams I had while on the substance. I am still utilizing the contentment I received about my sadnesses, traumas, and discontents present in my life (which aren't really a big deal after all!).
Zen Master Dogen called this 'actualizing the fundamental point.'
Peace!
ps as a sidenote, I think piracetam is a WONDERFUL tool for integrating psychedelic experiences that keep them perculating weeks afterwards.
I am still tingling with euphoria from my M1 trip 2 weeks ago. I still feel the love and am still trying to reach out and fulfill my dreams I had while on the substance. I am still utilizing the contentment I received about my sadnesses, traumas, and discontents present in my life (which aren't really a big deal after all!).
Zen Master Dogen called this 'actualizing the fundamental point.'
Peace!
ps as a sidenote, I think piracetam is a WONDERFUL tool for integrating psychedelic experiences that keep them perculating weeks afterwards.