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The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

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Re: Alcohol and Piracetam - this is strange, what people report about potentiation. I find that Piracetam blocks a lot of Alcohol's pleasurable effects, and maybe this is why there are studies involving researching it as aid for alcoholism. I am grdually reducing my doses... the last dose was around 800mg. I never got that headache again but notice some stimulant properties (likely due to synergy with nicotine). Unlike oxiracetam and nefiracetam, I am not feeling utterly depressed on day 3. Lets hope it stays that way.

I'd be interested in hearing more info on the allegend toxicity between alcohol and piracetam.

Off the bat, I am calling b/s about the whole "increased blood flow" thing because it makes no sense. I am especially interested in its interaction with small doses of alcohol (ie. 1 glass at a time, max 2 glasses a day of wine), which in and of themselves seem to have nootropic effects for me.
 
Use a choline donator to combat piracetam headaches... it's recommended anyway for piracetam. DMAE is a very cheap one. Lecithin works also and is a food. Centrophenoxine is my favorite.
 
If they come back, I sure will :)

Although I do get a lot of choline naturally in my diet: for example, I have eggs for breakfast almost every day. But yes, I have considered the choline donnor thing.
 
Xorkoth said:
Are you exercising your brain? Nootropics won't be noticed if you don't utilize them. The benefits can become less noticeable as you use it regularly because you start to consider the nootropic state to be your new baseline. This is why, as in WiLdLaSeR's excellent post above, it is important to always push yourself. Think about piracetam sort of like creatine for the brain. Creatine allows your muscles to work more smoothly and effectively and aids in muscle building. Piracetam has the same capability for the brain. But you have to exercise or else it's not going to really help you. :)
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Yes, I'm a senior in high school. I'm taking 7 classes. The quarter is ending this week and I have so much to do. Yet, I often find myself just sitting around doing absolutely nothing. I'm not blaming the drug or anything. It just seems like it's not helping me at ALL anymore. When I first started taking it, I was always be thinking of things, my mind would be running constantly. I don't get that anymore either.
 
Well, it is day 5 (or 6?)... and I am more depressed than ever. Granted, my general situation hasn't been good, but I don't even remember the last time it was.

Usually, I'd maintain a baseline state of mind between my monthly Ketamine regimens. The Piracetam, like Oxiracetam and Nefiracetam, seems to be reversing whatever good the Ketamine has done.

Or maybe its just circumstance. I don't know. But my next Ketamine run is coming up in a couple of weeks, so that should prove interesting.

Btw I've been lowering my doses steadily and now I am at a total of 1g/day divided into two.

I've been wondering if this -racetam-induced depression is just a phase after which things get much better or not. I will keep taking it till my next ketamine run, in hopes of seeing improvement.
 
Yeah it couldn't at all be the K contributing to your depression must surely be the innocent ol Racetam smart drugs...LOL. Your post made me chuckle. I remember back in my K days when I was totally oblivious to the harm it was doing to my mind and thought it was the greatest thing for my mind and tried blaming other drugs for my deteriorating mental state.

Sometimes it disturbs me how many people post glorifying Ketamine use on this, a harm prevention site. It would be fine for people to go on about its virtues if they also described the dark side of K and risks one is taking but I often notice posts that do nothing but make K look like this perfect innocent drug that could do no harm.

Look what happened to John Lilly's mind. Remember how he thought aliens were attacking the earth? I don't expect anyone to heed my warning about being careful about their K use. Maybe if you guys had seen what it did to my sanity a few years ago you'd be more cautious about overusing it.

Those pesky evil Racetams and other smart drugs...curse them! LOL!
 
The Wizard said:
Yeah it couldn't at all be the K contributing to your depression must surely be the innocent ol Racetam smart drugs...LOL. Your post made me chuckle. I remember back in my K days when I was totally oblivious to the harm it was doing to my mind and thought it was the greatest thing for my mind and tried blaming other drugs for my deteriorating mental state.

Sometimes it disturbs me how many people post glorifying Ketamine use on this, a harm prevention site. It would be fine for people to go on about its virtues if they also described the dark side of K and risks one is taking but I often notice posts that do nothing but make K look like this perfect innocent drug that could do no harm.

Look what happened to John Lilly's mind. Remember how he thought aliens were attacking the earth? I don't expect anyone to heed my warning about being careful about their K use. Maybe if you guys had seen what it did to my sanity a few years ago you'd be more cautious about overusing it.

Those pesky evil Racetams and other smart drugs...curse them! LOL!
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Ah, sorry - you're new, and I just happened not to have explained my medical use of ketamine in this thread thinking most readers already know how I use that drug.

Don't make assumptions. I've been using Ketamine medicinally for more than 4 years in controlled (1 week per month) ultra-low dose regimens to combat my bipolar disorder. It never did anything to my "sanity". It has cured me from 3 addictions by stopping the cravings. It has prevented me from taking my life several times.

Your patronising tone is not appreciated.
 
^ Good thing you brought up that K is being studied for depression. It has been for many years and there are several positive studies published on the subject, but no one seems to notice them under the heaps of b/s research generalising the supposed toxicity of NMDA-antagonists, as if they were all homogenous.

Other than that, you might have a point. Maybe the -racetams are only for people whose lives are already in balance. But then just a few weeks ago there was a thread about two people finding piracetam cured them of their manic-depression. As I mentioned earlier, my life is definitely NOT balanced. Although my diet is fine, almost everything else is out of tune.

The reason I'm suspecting Piracetam in my most recent bout of depression is that several previous experiences with oxiracetam and nefiracetam proved similar, albeit worse. Furthermore, I found that these drugs completely neutralize the effects of Ketamine if the two are taken together, both the medicinal and the recreational effects. It only makes sense that something that blocks a cure for a disease you have won't exactly be good for you.

On a more positive note, I am writing a LOT more these days than ever.
 
Have you tried using L-Tryptophan, SAM-e, St. John's Wort, Kava, Picamilon, Kratom, Phenibut or anything else healthy and legal for depression? Is Tramadol any good as an antidepressant? I found SAM-e worked well at first for me but lost effectiveness over time.
 
I have tried all of those in fact, and more, with the exception of Kava (which is actually illegal in Canada).

L-Tryptophan: No reaction. 5-HTP gave me worrisome hot-flashes, and still no psychological benefit (I'd even say it made me more depressed!). Same goes to Phenylalanine and Tyrosine.

SAM-e: Felt good for a couple of days, then did absolutely nothing. Overpriced garbage.

SJW: No real effect, creepy feeling on top of it all.

Picamilon: Like Gabapentin and Pregabalin, worked well for anxiety, but not depression. However, once it produced SS-like effects, it scared the shit out of me and I never touched it again. Also built up tolerance rapidly.

Kratom: the beta-adrenergic qualities overweighed anything else this crap had to offer. It felt like Yohimbe, but worse. Besides, it is an opioid (but didn't feel like one at all) and causes similar addiction to traditional opiates

Phenibut: Did absolutely nothing (I have really high GABA tolerance due to prescription benzo dependence) and as a matter of fact, caused GHB-like withdrawals when I stopped!

Tramadol: Actually does work well, but it is still an opiate and will cause physical dependence and an especially-nasty withdrawal.

Btw, if you think an opiate addiction is "healthier" than a very strict and spaced-out regimen of ultra-low dose Ketamine, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

I've also tried a plethora of prescription medication, too many to mention, and the only one that came close to the efficacy of Ketamine (but "close" is an overstatement) is Gabapentin and that lost its efficacy after a few months.

I have even tried Amantadine as a replacement for Ketamine, and it too did not work.

Trust me, I would not be using Ketamine (or any drug for that matter) to cure myself had I not exhausted (and continue to exhaust, as per my current experiment with piracetam) every other possibility. I know that my Ketamine use is responsible because I have only a bit of tolerance after 4 years of medicinal use (with the occasional entheogenic trip, make no mistake), and no physical dependence.

ps. One legal item that DOES help marginally, I find, is L-theanine.
 
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I agree about SAM-e it seemed to work well at first but quickly lose effectiveness and is expensive ad fuck. And european studies suggest 1-1.5 g a day which adds up to a lot of cash. Can't the supplement TMG be used instead of SAM-e for antidepessant effects or is it only a SAM-e potentiator? Also, did you get enteric coated SAM-e and take it on an empty stomach with folic acid?

Yeah I assumed SJW was bullshit. How did it feel creepy though? And did it weaken psychedelics? I've always wondered if during my phase of daily SAM-e for months how it was affecting my Tryptamine/Phenethylamine trips, seeing as how SAM-e affects serotonin.

Picamilon I'd like to try. Doesn't suprise me to hear it chillls out anxiety more than depression. If it's similar to Neurontin, since I like Neurontin a lot, I guess I might really enjoy it. I'd very much like to try Lyrica. Ever tried Dilantin, GABA or high doses of Taurine? I like the combo of GABA *(sublingually), Taurine and Niacinamide a lot.

I'd imagine good Kava or Salvia miltiorrhiza might be quite nice too. Or some fresh Pedicularis buds.

I'm really loving the latest batch of fresh Bali Kratom I got. I'd been off Kratom a few months so my tolerance had reset. I'm back to where 10-12 grams can get me feeling really nice. Still takes me 15 grams to get the full heavenly euphoria. SUCH a great stress release. And Kratom mixes SO amazingly with nootropics (like Piracetam, Rhodiola, Hydergine, etc) and psychedelics (like HBW, MG, DXM, 2CE, L).

Id you like the speediness of Kratom preload on a couple grams of DL-Phenylalanine and perhaps some Chocamine or Yerba Mate, or some Kanna or Japanese Sweet Flag 5X. Sure glad Kratom doesn't feel for me like a boring blah upper like Yohimbe.

Tramadol has its time and place. If depressed or sluggish it's great for giving a quick boost, mood lift, relaxation, stress release. I love it's long half life too and lack of typical opioid side effects (conspitation, nausea, itching). Does Tramadol work better sublingually or rectally than orally? And how quick does Tramadol tolerance build and how bad to the physical w/d's get? How's Tramadol combine with psychedelics, anyways?

Ketamine you are using primarily for depression/mood stabilization? You ingest it orally, sublingually, nasally, injected or rectally? And you're doing waht 25, 50, 100 mg at a time? I've heard on and off for years that low dose occasional Ketamine can help treat mood disorders but I'd always wondered if it's worth the risks to the patient. I myself years ago was suspectible to bipolar disorder and overuse of K helped exacerbate my symptoms and make them spiral out of control and overwhelm me. A few heavy K sessions in a night and I'd end up staying up a couple days in a manic frenzy.

I simply could NOT learn to use any moderation with K. I approached it with no respect at all. It was pure hedonism/escapism for me. I didn't appreciate the damage I was doing to my psyche. I was slowly becoming more and more detached and spaced out from others and decreasing my maturity and intelligence. I felt strongly alienated from others and alone. I no longer related to many humans at all. It was a sad, frantic desperate existence with lots of delusions of grandeur and persecution and brushes with startled strangers in public. I seriously doubt I could ever learn to use K medicinally as a mood stabilizer. I'd rather try a much more stable clearheaded controllable insightful relaxant.

Does preloading on white grapefruit juice or magnesium citrate potentiate K at all? Do nootropics remove any of the cloudiness and amnesia of the K experience?

Wonder how DMT or Salvia mix with nootropics and supplements. *Drools*
 
WiLdLaSeR said:
So how do you find mixing nootropics plus cannabis (regular use) to be? Seems like it reverses any "negative" effects pretty much to me. As far as kratom, I debate trying it due to my past, I have beaten many of those demons and do not wish to return to those levels of hell.
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I love the combination of nootropics and cannabis... it definitely reduces the negative effects. Combined with vaporizing I don't even notice any negative effects. Vaporization is so much better. Although smoking is much more addictive because it provides a rush, whereas vaporization is muich slower to come to full effect.

As for kratom, well, if you've had anm opiate demon before, I can honestly say just don't. Hell, I don't even care about other opiates, I like kratom the best. It's good stuff. I've been on and off of it for 4 years and it's a fucking bitch just like any other opiate. And it has far, far fewer negative effects from overdoing it (as in long-term regular use) and keeps me totally there mentally, so it's harder to tell when it's become a problem. It's great stuff, but considering your past I would not recommend you even go there.
 
Am I the only one using CoQ10, Acetyl L-Carnitine and Alpha Lipoic Acid each day? I'd read they're good treatments for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which I have.

The last few nights I've been experimenting with using 150-200 mg of 5-HTP before bed rather than Melatonin. The 5-HTP dreams are pretty interesting stuff. Wish I had L-Tryptophan instead though.

I'm really curious about trying Bacopa but afraid since no one on forums like this recommends it. I only see people using it on Imminst.org and other health forums. Ashwagandha also sounds up my alley. Any Ginseng users on here?

Is NADH just a gimmick or what? And does no one on here use Picamilon much? Do high doses produce any euphoria? I also never heard of GABOB on here, structurally related to GHB.

What about DHEA? Anyone like it?

Suuuure wish I could try Amineptine...
 
CoQ10 I have used, but when I am looking for such an antioxidant, I use idebenone, which is similar but superior. I used to use ALCAR (acetyl-L-carnitine) but I didn't care for it enough to buy more since it's not the cheapest of supplements. I've never used ALA but I had been thinking about it at one point. I like my little regimen of piracetam, centrophenoxine, a multivitamin, and fish oil, and phenibut when I feel the need for some relaxation or anti-stress or increased sociability. I used to use more but I'm giving myself a rest now with the onslaught of nootropics.

I'm not a big fan of 5-HTP... it makes me kind of groggy and usually makes me feel more depressed instead of less. I take melatonin along with some calcium/magnesium tablets and B6 and B12 on many nights... it's one I really like because it increases my dream recall (although quitting marijuana would do that tremendously more), and it tends to make me feel more refreshed in the morning.

I have been curious about bacopa and picamilon but they sound rather similar to phenibut, but I can't imagine I'd like them more so i haven't bothered. I've been really trying to save money for the past few months for more important things.

I have used ashwagandha a few times but not enough to get a feel for it. I like ginseng but I stopped buying it when I started taking piracetam regularly. Sometime I might take it up again, I doubt it could hurt and might be beneficial.

Finally, I have some DHEA. It makes me feel somewhat stimulated and more outgoing. I kind of liked it sometimes but I have most of the bottle just sitting there and haven't touched it in, oh, probably a year and a half. I'm not sure why... some supplements never really did anything bad, but I just stopped using them because I felt like I didn't really need them.
 
I posted this in other drugs and got no reply (thats what i get for straying from my PD home)

i have recently acquired ten 20mg Emsam (transdermal selegiline) patches, since they are intended to treat depression, the dosage is 6mg per 24hours thus selectivity for MAO-B is lost, i am unwilling to take on the appropriate diet and I LOVE the effects of low dose selegiline, the doctor recommended i cut the patches in half, but research into the matter indicated that doing so might be dangerous. Does anyone know about the Emsam patch, or about what properties a transdermal patch must have to allow cutting?
 
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GNC Multivitamin general health
Fish Oil bipolar / brain damage
5-htp bipolar depression / ocd
Lion's Maine Mushroom brain damage
l-glutamate anxiety


seroquel 800mg bipolar mania / insomnia
invega 12mg schitzophrenia

anything to add? am i making any mistakes?
 
Two days after my last post here, I simply had to stop taking Piracetam due to several nervous breakdowns and an intricate suicide plan.

But you know, I can see that this is not a direct pharmacological effect of the drug. I think what it is doing is highlighting all my thinking processes (which is what its supposed to do), including negative ones that cannot be dealt with in the short term and are best left for a later time if one wishes to go on living.

So I was wondering, what does everyone here think of taking a single large-ish dose before sleep? That way I can retain its neurochemical benefits, and by the time I wake up my negative thoughts are not highlighted.

What does everyone think? I've been doing this for the last two nights, with very low doses (100mg), and no negatives were noticed. Tonight I will try it with 500mg.
 
Well I was pretty damned disappointed with the results of my trial of a few weeks on Hydergine. I took my last 2 4.5 mg tablets yesterday evening. Alltogether I must have been on Hydergine for something like 3 weeks total. I wish I could remember what date I'd started on Hydergine so I'd know how long I actually was using it daily.

Maybe my expectations were just way too high. So many articles and forum posts described Hydergine as if it was quite a powerful cognitive enhancer/stimulant yet I found it to be pretty damned mild. Some folks said they couldn't even handle a 4.5 mg tablet a day and would instead take just half a tablet. Me, I took up to 13.5 mg some days and STILL could barely discern an effect. Most days I was on 4.5 mg, usually taken in the morning sublingually.

At first I thought that a couple hours after ingestion I had a heightened sense of awareness, well being, focus, motivation, energy and even a nice tingly feeling in my extremities. However, the more I took it the less I noticed this and the more I equated the effects I thought I'd felt to placebo and wishful thinking.

Maybe I just require a much higher dose than most people? Shrugs. Oh well. 30 something dollars down the drain and nothing to show for it. If Hydergine were a lot cheaper maybe I'd try it further but for now fuck it. I'll stick to cheap, tried and true nootropics like Piracetam, Rhodiola and DMAE for now.

I wonder if part of the reason I responded so little to Hydergine is it's an Ergoline and I've an enormous tolerance to some of the Ergoline psychedelics (like Woodrose seeds, Morning Glory seeds and good ol blotter). So maybe I experienced a cross tolerance? Or maybe I got a shitty brand of Hydergine or my pills were expired? They were Hydergina brand. Is Ergoloid mesylates powder a lot more potent than Hydergine tablets?

I've got my sights set on trying nootropics like Centrophenoxine soon after hearing all its good reviews and seeing how I handle DMAE really well. One thing I don't get is if the 2 drugs are so closely related why does tolerance to DMAE rise very quickly if used daily yet Xorkoth says Centro can be used daily without tolerance issues?

I'm pretty bitter about the fact the U.S. has made it impossible for one to get their hands on stuff like Amineptine, Prolintane, etc. It's as if any drug that has potentially powerful, euphoric anti-depressant effects must be seen by the American pharmaceutical giants as a threat to their precious, lousy prescription antidepressants (like the SSRI's). I know the U.S. govt. does whatever the fuck these pharmaceutical companies want so long as companies keep lining the pockets of the politicians.

I wish the price on Provigil would come down...such a wonderful drug but so RIDICULOUSLY expensive, gawd.

I'd like to explore what cognitive enhancing potential herbs like Sweet Flag, Yerba Mate, Ginseng, etc. possess. If they're anything as mind-sharpening as Rhodiola and Thai Kratom are for me I'll be quite pleased :)
 
It would make sense that hydergine didn't do a lot for you since you have a large tolerance to ergolines... I hadn't thought of that. Hydergine has been studied about as long as piracetam has, and it's one of the "standard" nootropics (that in response to your comment about sticking to tried and tried nootropics).

And I agree about modafinil (Provigil). I have a prescription for it... at first I didn't like it, then I thought it did nothing but keep me awake. But over time I have come to really appreciate it. Even a quarter of a pill (50mg) will really wake me straight up and give me focus and motivation. I never take more than 100mg at a time because it makes me jittery.

It's also worth noting that when I was taking lots of supplements and lots of psychedelics, Provigil seemed to do very little for me. I could take 200mg and feel virtually nothing. In fact, the reason I take so few supplements these days is because it helps me to really maximize the ones I do take and really feel every one of them. When I was taking 20 different supplements and trying every new thing under the sun, it seemed like nothing really was very noticeable over anything else.
 
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