The Big & Dandy Nootropics Thread

[Thou]

It would make sense that hydergine didn't do a lot for you since you have a large tolerance to ergolines... I hadn't thought of that. Hydergine has been studied about as long as piracetam has, and it's one of the "standard" nootropics (that in response to your comment about sticking to tried and tried nootropics).

And I agree about modafinil (Provigil). I have a prescription for it... at first I didn't like it, then I thought it did nothing but keep me awake. But over time I have come to really appreciate it. Even a quarter of a pill (50mg) will really wake me straight up and give me focus and motivation. I never take more than 100mg at a time because it makes me jittery.

It's also worth noting that when I was taking lots of supplements and lots of psychedelics, Provigil seemed to do very little for me. I could take 200mg and feel virtually nothing. In fact, the reason I take so few supplements these days is because it helps me to really maximize the ones I do take and really feel every one of them. When I was taking 20 different supplements and trying every new thing under the sun, it seemed like nothing really was very noticeable over anything else.

I had a script for that for a short period of time, back when I had decent health insurance. Unfortunately at the time I was suffering a deep depression and felt no positive effects whatsoever, due to the nature of the emotional state I was in. I was willing to give it another shot, seeing as I have advanced adult add that's never been treated and is effecting my life in a serious way, but I'm looking more towards the dexedrine route (used sparingly, of course). Provigil lacks a generic alternative unfortunately, and is outrageously overpriced (although I know of some nootropic vendors that sell it, still expensive, but not quite as expensive if you were to try to get it without insurance). Most Insurance companies I've encountered will not cover it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Just wanted to warn you guys to not do too high a dose of DMAE. Do no more than 2-350 mg. Higher doses are counterproductive and will just have more side effects.

I agree completely.

In fact, I'll go one up and say that DMAE may not be a good chemical to take, simpliciter. I think for me at least personally that I can get plenty choline through my daily diet (I eat ~3 eggs a day minimum, though, ymmv).

 

[The Wizard]

2C, have you heard of or tried using Piracetam, Deprenyl, SAM-e, Kanna, Provigil, Rhodiola, Kratom, Kava, Phenibut, 5-HTP, L-Tryptophan, St. John's Wort, SSRI's, SNRI's, Amineptine,Tricyclics, or MAOI's for your depression?

Dexedrine def. isn't the healthiest or smartest way to treat depression. Artificially elevating your Dopamine and Adrenaline might help in the short run but won't be a long-term fix and could eventually bite you in the ass.

So, apparently no one knows anything about Bromocriptine or Nicergoline and how their effects differ from Hydergine?

 

[Xorkoth]

So, apparently no one knows anything about Bromocriptine or Nicergoline and how their effects differ from Hydergine?

Nope... once I received a 10-pill sample of bromocriptine when I ordered 120 tabs of hydergine, but I lost them before I got to try them... and I still haven't found them almost 2 years later!

 

[Thou]

2C, have you heard of or tried using Piracetam, Deprenyl, SAM-e, Kanna, Provigil, Rhodiola, Kratom, Kava, Phenibut, 5-HTP, L-Tryptophan, St. John's Wort, SSRI's, SNRI's, Amineptine,Tricyclics, or MAOI's for your depression?


Dexedrine def. isn't the healthiest or smartest way to treat depression. Artificially elevating your Dopamine and Adrenaline might help in the short run but won't be a long-term fix and could eventually bite you in the ass.

So, apparently no one knows anything about Bromocriptine or Nicergoline and how their effects differ from Hydergine?

Thanks for the reply, and trust me, dexidrine/ritalin is an absolute last resort, for I have literally tried everything (been suffering for over 20 years, the accompany anxiety/depression has been with me since 16 because of the learning disorder). My depression and axiety would be nonexistant without the ADD. I know this as solid fact, I've been on all of the ssri's, klonopin, xanax, seroquel, provigil, zyprexa (don't ask me why), with effexor doing the most terrible damage to my body. I am considering St. John's wort and perhaps 5-htp in minute amounts. I'll demonstrate my "stack" as of the last few months and a bit of a background. I have of course yet to try hydergine of deprenyl, as I'm so strapped for cash right now (couldn't really afford all of those listed below, but was desperate).

I have been heavily following this thread, the only reason I have yet to comment is I am still gauging the subtle effects of the supplements I've been regimenting and cycling. Lest start off with the regulars (daily)

Please note I follow a vegan diet, take multivatims and b complex, also magnesium/calcium and b6 as well as l-glutamate daily. (Just got some glycine, and gaba, still waiting to see if those are of any use. I also take spirulina daily when I remember too (google spirulina if unfirmiliar).

This past year my condition has grown so bad I had decided to take every avenue necessary to get my life (literally together). On occasion sums of valium (as well as ketamine, another useful tool in treating these mental ills from time to time), and it's bittersweet because I will not use more than 3 weeks in a row for obvious tolerance reasons, but then for the remaining 2 or 3 weeks (sometimes more if I can't attain), are a living nightmare, I become almost agorophobic, just basically so down with racing negatie thoughts (most definitely innatentive type add behaviour thoughts mind you), that I have trouble dealing with people and espiacially dealing with them at work (I manage the front desk of a large hotel). In response I've started the following stack at the beginning of December, of course added one every week to two weeks.

Morning:
Piracetam: 1200x Twice Daily
Choline Citrate: 800 Daily
*Phenibut: Cycle 2 days on, 3 days off (more info on this one below, it's requires elaboration)
Huperzine: Once a day at first, now not much at all, seemed to do more harm than good
L-Theanine: Twice Daily, need to order more though. (This is the only thing that puts my poor insomniac lover to sleep, first thing that's worked in years)
Picamilon: I have two bottles of this unopened, I don't care for it at all. Seems placebo to me. (If anyone wants an unopen bottle of this PM me, it's uniquenutrition brand i believe)
Rhodeola: Occasionaly, seems innactive to me.
Bacopa: Same as Rhodeola
Melatonin: Bed
Kratom: Just the resin once, definite opiate, definite recreational only kind of thing for me. Just ordered a sweet kratom rooted plant though (digression)

Minors:
Soy protein shake (on most days)
Just bought a tub of greens and am going to start today on them.

I love all my supplements I continue to still utilize (espiacially the racetam and the theanine,but they don't do anything for my attention disoder. It's something that's been left undiagnosed for 16 years and I think it's just too late without some kind of (albeit temporary) medical intervention. I would of course use them responsibly, and I am not privy to taking a lot of speed, for I am far too anxiously aware of my heartbeat most days, and I have a bit of a panic disorder (or borderline, anyway). Plus I don't smoke and have a health heart because I've been strict vegan for 2 years.


I know this is a long read, so I thank those still with me, it really helps getting all of this stuff off a heavy head.

A note on phenibut, I think it's absolutely the most amazing thing I've encountered in over ten years. Second week of using it I took a bit too high a dose at night and woke up literally rolling. It must have obvious serotonergic and dopaergic effects because I felt like and mdma afterglow combined with a psilocybe afterglow, and it last for 24 solid hours, and your content and clear and naturally focused all at once! As long as you cycle it properly it's a beuatiful resource.


Thanks for listening blers, I've been meaning to add to this thread for quite some time.

 

[magic wedel]

I'm not sure if it is the Piracetam, or just that I'm always tired when I'm not working now, but when I smoke weed I automatically get really tired. Weed never had this effect on me before.

 

[hamhurricane]

I MUST SAY
that the transcendent euphoria produced by the (15mg)d-amphetamine/(1g)piracetam combination is utterly counterintuitive for study. I'm sitting here trying to read about psychopathology, everytime i close my eyes i can feel a rushing sensation, utterly hedonistic...
no good/too good.

 

[hamhurricane]

Thanks for the reply, and trust me, dexidrine/ritalin is an absolute last resort, for I have literally tried everything (been suffering for over 20 years, the accompany anxiety/depression has been with me since 16 because of the learning disorder). My depression and axiety would be nonexistant without the ADD. I know this as solid fact, I've been on all of the ssri's, klonopin, xanax, seroquel, provigil, zyprexa (don't ask me why), with effexor doing the most terrible damage to my body. I am considering St. John's wort and perhaps 5-htp in minute amounts. I'll demonstrate my "stack" as of the last few months and a bit of a background. I have of course yet to try hydergine of deprenyl, as I'm so strapped for cash right now (couldn't really afford all of those listed below, but was desperate).

I know the ADHD desperation well, i noticed you did not mention the only two perscription ADHD meds that have ever done me any good, that would be concerta and strattera, on this board and everywhere else people will tell you that these drugs are shit, and in many ways they are right. strattera is a miserable drug, but the painful bottom line is it works, and it works well (at least for me.) i suggest you give it a try at a very low dose (the only way i take it.) i assume you have tried ritalin, it is both less toxic and more effective than amphetamine. if you want to avoid the entire mainstream pharmaceutical industry, the go for the selegiline and piracetam - an incredible tried and true combination. in my opinion avoid the hydergiene unless for creative applications.

as an update to a question i posted earlier about cutting the Emsam patch, it CAN be done safely to the best of my knowledge (and experience.) so users are not restricted by MAO-A inhibiting doses.

i wonder how many nootropic-heads are ADHD sufferers looking for an alternative route of treatment?

 

[The Wizard]

Have Wellbutrin, Provigil, Hydergine or DMAE helped anyone with ADD/ADHD? And is it true that Focalin (D-Methylphenidate) is a lot cleaner and more therapeutic in effect than plain ol Ritalin? I wish I could get my paws on obscure pharmaceutical stimulants like Tranylcypromine (an MAOI structurally related to amphetamines) or Amineptine (the most stimulating Tricyclic). I assume RC stimulants like MDPV aren't very productive and therapeutic for fatigue and problems focusing.

What about herbal treatments for ADD? Perhaps Coca, Khat, Rhodiola, Ginseng or Yerba Mate could help. I'm surprised no one on here besides me has gotten good results from using Rhodiola for energy, mood, relaxation, etc. I wonder if people haven't tried the right form of Rhodiola or haven't taken a high enough dosage long enough. Try the 3% Rosavin Rhodiola powder (4-5 grams a day in 2 divided doses) and stick with it daily for at least a week or 2 before you judge it. Do you guys find stimulating Kratom like Thai helps with ADD and energy levels?

 

[Thou]

I know the ADHD desperation well, i noticed you did not mention the only two perscription ADHD meds that have ever done me any good, that would be concerta and strattera, on this board and everywhere else people will tell you that these drugs are shit, and in many ways they are right. strattera is a miserable drug, but the painful bottom line is it works, and it works well (at least for me.) i suggest you give it a try at a very low dose (the only way i take it.) i assume you have tried ritalin, it is both less toxic and more effective than amphetamine. if you want to avoid the entire mainstream pharmaceutical industry, the go for the selegiline and piracetam - an incredible tried and true combination. in my opinion avoid the hydergiene unless for creative applications.

as an update to a question i posted earlier about cutting the Emsam patch, it CAN be done safely to the best of my knowledge (and experience.) so users are not restricted by MAO-A inhibiting doses.

i wonder how many nootropic-heads are ADHD sufferers looking for an alternative route of treatment?

I have tried both Adderall and Ritalin recreationally (noticed their effectivenes by chance right away), and had a short script for provigil at the time. I do take piracetam daily as well as huperzine, neither seem to do the trick (they are helpful though). I have yet to try the selegiline, I was a bit cautious of it because of MAO-b activity, but then again I'm a hypochondriac and not too well versed on the actions of said chemicals.

Hopefully my insurance will pull through and I can give ritalin a go, I was going to try that one first and foremost anyway (I really need to get my life in gear). Thanks for the replies.

 

[The Wizard]

Ask the doc for Focalin rather than Ritalin- cleaner effects and longer duration. Also, don't waste your time with Adderall when Dexedrine is far superior.

 

[Thou]

^Planning on suggesting dexedrine, I'm prone to anxiety so I'd rather not get that jittery bullshit you get with the adderall. Is focalin a Ritalin preperation? Or a second drug entirely?

 

[The Wizard]

Ritalin and Focalin are 2 diff. forms of Methylphenidate. Focalin is D-Methylphenidate. Supposedly Focalin feels a lot smoother to the body with less CNS side effects and produces cleaner, longer lasting stimulation.

Adderall and Dexedrine are along the same lines as comparing Ritalin and Focalin. Adderall is DL-Amphetamine and Dexedrine is D-Amphetamine. The latter medication is cleaner, safer and more euphoric. Generally the Dextro (D) form of stimulants is better than the DextroLevo (DL) form.

 

[Nitrous is Nice]

I've been taking 800mg Piracetam and 130mg DMAE daily for at least a month now.

I've found it very true that Piracetam greatly dampens the effects of dissociatives (Nitrous in my case).

Nitrous is my favorite drug, and I'd like to do a fair amount of it the next time I trip and be able to fully appreciate its effects.

Could any of you give me an estimate as to how many days of not taking Piracetam it will take in order to feel the full effects of Nitrous again?

 

[The Wizard]

You know DMAE isn't recommended for long-term use, right? Who knows what that might do to a person. How does the stuff even still give you an effect at so low a dosage for so many weeks in a row? When I used to use DMAE a few days a week for months I found the stuff worked less and less and I now try to use it only once or twice a week or less.

I don't get why Centrophenoxine, which is chemically so similar to DMAE, would be possible to use daily without building tolerance like DMAE. I though Xorkoth had said in the past that Centro could be used daily. Or maybe I'm the only one who quickly develops a tolerance to DMAE?

Anyone use high doses of Vinpocetine lately with much success?

 

[Thou]

^agreed.


I took quite a hefty dose of ketamine the other day, forgetting I had taken my piracetam, and didn't get nearly as satisfying an effect. I was pissed.

Does anyone know the reason for this?

Could any of you give me an estimate as to how many days of not taking Piracetam it will take in order to feel the full effects of Nitrous again?

Would this apply to ketamine as well? It will have been two days until the next time and I am assuming that is enough time.

 

[Xorkoth]

I forget why it is that centrophenoxine is safe and effective to use for an extended period... I should look it up so I can answer that question.

 

[Thou]

^That's next on my list. I have choline citrate, but I've heard it has a very low oral bioavailabily. Usually dose a gram with 1.5 grams piracetam.

I'm tempted to order some adrafanil to see if its worth anything, but it's so expensive and I'm in no position to be frivolous when it comes to money right now.

 

[Nitrous is Nice]

Yeah I know that DMAE isn't that great. Sometimes I just take an ordinary choline + inositol pill with the Piracetam. I would buy some Centrophenoxine, but it's too damn expensive at the store and I just recently moved in with my girlfriend who isn't the biggest fan of random chemicals arriving in the mail. (She's all about the "you have everything you need naturally, so I wish you would could stop taking supplements/certain drugs" approach. And I somewhat agree with her... I have greatly reduced my rate of substance abuse and the amount of supplements that I take, but I haven't been totally won over yet). /tangent.

I've taken high doeses of Vinpocetine in the past. However it was usually combined with moderate-high doses of other nootropics AND wellbutrin, so I can't really say how useful it is on its own. Those few times though I did end up extremely focused and in a great mood, not surprisingly.

I also accidentally took Vinpocetine sublingually fairly recently thinking it was melatonin. lol. It definitely had a faster onset and stronger, shorter effects, but it wasn't a large dose so I didn't experience anything too profound. It tastes pretty bad and dissolves into a very grainy substance too, but it might be worth the effects to take a higher dose sublingually. I might try that sometime soon. I'll definitely report the effects here if I do.

But back to my original question... How many days of not taking Piracetam would be enough to appreciate the full effects of Nitrous? I'm under the impression that Piracetam builds up in your system, so I'm guessing that just abstaining a day or two wouldn't be enough to bring the magic of N2O back...

 

[The Wizard]

If Choline Citrate isn't very bioavailable orally try it sublingually. Some supplements like GABA work a lot better sublingually than orally as they cross the blood-brain barrier more efficiently.

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about Vasopressin? Is this stuff really expensive or hard to get or ineffective or what? I seem to recall one of Vasopressin's benefits is it replenishes your body of certain chemicals that are depleted when you use too much of certain drugs (alcohol, pot, etc.)

I'm still yet to find anyone online who's tried GABOB so I'm assuming it's a really shitty alternative to GHB/Benzos. Shame because the few times I tried Xyrem (prescription GHB) I really enjoyed it. Are GHV and GVL still available and any good?

What sedative/anxiolytics out there are claimed to have smart drug benefits? I've heard some people swear Phenibut made them feel clearer headed and smarter and supposedly the relaxing herb Bacopa has nootropic benefits.