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The Big & Dandy Methoxphenidine / MXP / 2-MeO-Diphenidine Thread

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This stuff sounds dangerous at high doses without a trip sitter and boring at normal/low doses... doubt i'll try this one....

Its not boring at low doses at all. Yesterday I took the last 50mg I had and had a pretty interesting experience. All kinds of things made sense, things I don't usually comprehend, its as if my brains right hemisphere was much more active than usual.
 
Also when you do it, do yourself a favor and get both pure HCl and the TA extract and take some of both to make up your total dose... people report that pure HCl only can be stimulating, worryingly so even, and uncomfortable... with the TA as even 25% of my total dose, I felt amazing the whole time, utterly comfortable, no raise in heart rate or blood pressure at all, and afterwards I felt AMAZING. Also I felt no fear at all.

A flood dose is utterly unlike lower doses, it was the craziest and most behavior-changing experience of my life. and it really does last nearly full-on for 3 days. And the metabolites afterwards are a wonderful thing, and can last quite a long time. Best I've ever felt in my life was days 4-6, after I emerged fully from the dreaming.

Thanks for the advice, I'll do that when the day comes. 3 days, my god, I didn't know it lasted that long. Its interesting how the other alkaloids influence the effects of the experience. I had heard that the other alkaloids increase the harsh side effects, not the other way around but I find root bark pretty relaxing in the low doses I've taken it. I'm looking forward to the day I can do it, but I'll also be bracing myself for it.
 
Its not boring at low doses at all. Yesterday I took the last 50mg I had and had a pretty interesting experience. All kinds of things made sense, things I don't usually comprehend, its as if my brains right hemisphere was much more active than usual.

Was this 50mg - dose taken orally ? I could not feel much from 40 mg orally (without tolerance).

What one has to take into consideration when attempting a high dose is the slow metabolization of the compound, leading to interactions even days after the intake and an accumulation in the blood stream if redosed too early. My highest dose was 80 mg insufflated (40 mg + 40 mg 2 hours later) and I can feel after effects several days later. I cannot imagine coping with the after effects of a ~300 mg overall intake.

I have combined it (also ~80mg insufflated over the course of a few hours) with medium doses of alcohol (a few beers + 1 drink) once without any complications. The day after was all right.
 
I've experienced 50mg a couple times. It makes me feel a little loopy and out there, with some mild body dissociation. Combined with some weed it was a nice experience, but nothing special. Weed does definitely seem to increase both the mental and physical dissociation, like with other dissociatives I've tried.

I've definitely found 100mg+ to be a much more interesting experience with this stuff, but I've also had a lot of experience with dissociatives. 100mg is about 5x as strong as 50mg by my very unscientific estimate, and 130mg was significantly stronger than 100mg. 130mg was definitely getting into some serious manic/delusional territory, but I was still aware that I was just on drugs. The physical dissociation is pretty strong at 130mg too, not completely disconnected from my body, but very much "operating" it instead of it just being me.

I agree about the after effects lasting for a long time too. The stronger after effects go away pretty quickly, but after that they gradually fade away over a period of days. Like I said the after-effects aren't that strong and I can function/go to work/etc, but I definitely feel a little slow mentally for a few days after MXP (gradually lessening over time as you'd expect)
 
Was this 50mg - dose taken orally ? I could not feel much from 40 mg orally (without tolerance).

What one has to take into consideration when attempting a high dose is the slow metabolization of the compound, leading to interactions even days after the intake and an accumulation in the blood stream if redosed too early. My highest dose was 80 mg insufflated (40 mg + 40 mg 2 hours later) and I can feel after effects several days later. I cannot imagine coping with the after effects of a ~300 mg overall intake.

I have combined it (also ~80mg insufflated over the course of a few hours) with medium doses of alcohol (a few beers + 1 drink) once without any complications. The day after was all right.

Yeah. It gives me nose bleeds so I don't insufflate it anymore, I let it dissolve on my tongue instead. I like the taste. I took it with lyrica, I think pregabalin might amplfy the effects, not sure though. Highest dose I've done was about 150 mg over a 5 hour period and I didn't get effects as strong as I did with diphenidine. Less incapacitating at least. With cannabis things get intense though. Goes very well with cannabinoids IME.
 
Yeah. It gives me nose bleeds so I don't insufflate it anymore, I let it dissolve on my tongue instead. I like the taste. I took it with lyrica, I think pregabalin might amplfy the effects, not sure though. Highest dose I've done was about 150 mg over a 5 hour period and I didn't get effects as strong as I did with diphenidine. Less incapacitating at least. With cannabis things get intense though. Goes very well with cannabinoids IME.

I've found pregs amplify the effects of pretty much everything else, always in a good way. :)
 
I finally tried this compound at 80mg orally along with two friends who took the same dose. I started with 35mg (after taking sub-threshold doses to test for idiosyncratic reactions) and followed with 45mg thirty minutes later. I found the effect at that dose underwhelming and somewhat uninteresting. There was no stimulation of the sort I have encountered with compounds like 3-MeO-PCP and methoxphenidine seemed to have a bleak and discombobulating quality that I generally dislike in dissociatives. Overall my dose was not high enough to properly evaluate the drug, given the steep dose-response curve I would likely next take this compound at 100mg if I ever were to take it again. Seemingly my two friends enjoyed it, one said that it was very strange and made him "lugubrious and philosophical" the other ended up mixing the methoxphenidine with 15mg 2C-D, which he said was highly enjoyable. I'm sure there is potential in these compounds but I do wonder why the 2-methoxy substituent was chosen in favor of the 3-methoxy, which has higher NMDA affinity (170nm and 100nm respectively).
 
I'm sure there is potential in these compounds but I do wonder why the 2-methoxy substituent was chosen in favor of the 3-methoxy, which has higher NMDA affinity (170nm and 100nm respectively).
Got a source for this claim?

I haven't even heard of the 3-methoxylated version, but if it's true I could imagine it was just much too brutal, similar to why MK-801 isn't very enjoyable for most people. It's just a wild guess. We've already seen a few major psychotic breaks on this one and to be honest these two compounds are really pushing the limits in terms of psychotomimetic effects.
 
I've tried 60mg orally after 1 week of abstinence and I think the onset is just too delayed. At t+2h:30m I experienced an unexpected mini - "panic attack" for 15 seconds. Tachycardia and extreme physical discomfort I would describe the side effects. It was 30 minutes after ingesting some milk thistle (actually to counteract stomach upset, it should enhance the release of bile fluid), which is said to act on NMDA receptors itself somewhat (plus I ingested some sodium bicarbonate). So that could have been the culprit. What I wanted to express, that I am not satisfied with the slow onset of this compound when taken orally. It is ridiculous IMHO. Insufflated is safer, because you'll feel effects after ~30 minutes. Drugs with such slow processing are a pain not just in the ass to deal with.
 
^ I guess it depends how patient you are and how much you get the urge to re-dose if it's not working. It does have a really long onset, but it doesn't take THAT much longer to peak (orally) than many other psychoactive substances. I think the big difference is that it doesn't gradually kick in like a lot of drugs, at least for me. At 90 minutes after dosing I still feel almost nothing, but not long after that it hits hard and peaks at around the 2 hour mark (on an empty stomach). DXM (powder) actually has a really similar onset for me. It's not the same feeling, but much like MXP it takes a good 90 minutes before I start to feel anything, then hits hard soon after that.

I just watch a movie, read a book, etc while I wait. When I don't know what the hell is going on anymore I know it's working. :)
 
I've vaporized it several times. It does not come on right away, but maybe a bit faster than oral. Certainly more potent, at least at low doses. I would vaporize here and there throughout the weekend, and then regret it during the week as I felt shitty/depressed/off for a few days. I recommend against it but YMMV. If you try, let us know how it goes. :)
 
I have a pretty good handle on pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. There are some drugs that shift from one compartment to the next. For instance, propofol, used of surgical anaesthesia, is given intravenous. It rapidly distributes to the brain, where it exerts it's anaesthetic effects. It then further distributes to the fatty tissue, where it really wants to be. As long as the infusions continues, everything is fine. As soon as the infusion is stopped, no more "fresh" propofol is being delivered to the brain, and it redistributes to the adipose tissue. Fentanyl will do this as well. An IV dose rapidly accumulates in the brain, it has lots of blood flowing through it, and fentanyl loves the highly lipid environment of the brain. With time, fentanyl begins to move into the more poorly perfused adipose tissue, where it is even happier. Eventually most of the fentanyl leaches out of the brain in this second phase of distribution to enter the fat. This is sort of like a three compartment model.

I don't know of a case where a drug cycles in and out and then back into any single tissue, that seems pretty far fetched. I can imagine cases where it could be possible, but don't know of any. However, when you are dealing with knocking back one of the main excitatory, mucking around with calcium channels, whose millions of roles have effects on almost every aspect of the global neuronal function, many of them that oppose each other. There are so many possible ways by acting on neuronal circuits and feedback loops that the actions of this drug can itself cause waves and cycles of brain effects without the need for the drug to move from compartment to compartment.

As for causing structural changes to the brain, that is something that would take a substantial amount of damage and destruction for it to become apparent. I really don't think these sorts of structural changes would occur without there being significant neurological and psychological symptoms that would alert persons that things are falling apart. Of course, if they never sober up to see that their brain function is deteriorating, and continue with using, the outcome could be disastrous.

As for these structural differences in the brains of long term schizophrenia patients, they are not as simple as you might think. Are these changes the cause of schizophrenia, or the result of schizophrenia. Are the produced by the long term antipsychotic drugs that these patients are on? Is atrophy a function of there impoverished educational, social, and emotional lives they often live, especially when they are hospitalized.

Who knows. Daily drug use is a poor way to live your life, at least, for me, it was a terrible choice. Very occasional, moderate, careful use for recreation are something totally different. Daily use of most any psychoactive drug is likely to be detrimental to your long term quality of life (here I should mention that this applies to me and the choices that I made, different people, with different sets of substances may have different result, some better, some much worse). It would be surprising if messing around THE major excitatory neurotransmitter (90% of all excitatory messages are relayed by it), especially at the receptor most intimately linked with the formation, maintenance, and retrieval of memory and the storage of the bits an bytes of our lives could not, possible, cause some extremely dramatic negative benefits. Play smart is all I say.
 
Very well said Kebil, especially the last paragraph. Serious concerns for your psychological well being aren't raised for me when it comes to occasional recreational dissociative use, however prolonged and repeated heavy use can as we have seen countless times in pcp and dxm users can (and usually will eventually) induce psychotic states. Structural changes aren't necessarily needed for that.

Macroscopically visible structural changes to the brain can also occur within as little as a couple of months by simply changing your hobbies, habits or job. That's why it's just as likely as Kebil has pointed out that these changes seen in many schizophrenic patients are in fact a result rather than a cause of their illness. You would need longitudinal studies (starting with healthy patients) on this to find out for sure, I'm not aware of there being any.

Kebil, I'd recommend you to read the last few pages of the diphenidine thread, vaporizing of that compound is discussed in detail there. Vaporization has always been my preferred ROA for pcp, but things play out very differently for diphenidine.

Also, welcome back to (posting in) the forums. You should do that more frequently since you've made a lot of quality posts.
 
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Have had heaven and hell experiences with this now. Would not go above 140mg, and would not bother re-dosing, both put me into uncomfortable and long durations.
 
High doses

I have recently been dosing 200mg plus orally and not really feeling anything. Only other dissociative I have done recently is mxp in smaller doses, mxe and a small amount of ketamine. Could this be tolerance? Or a bad batch? Suppliers are normally really good. Wouldn't go any higher.
 
I have recently been dosing 200mg plus orally and not really feeling anything. Only other dissociative I have done recently is mxp in smaller doses, mxe and a small amount of ketamine. Could this be tolerance? Or a bad batch? Suppliers are normally really good. Wouldn't go any higher.

It's most likely tolerance, although a bad batch isn't impossible either. You said you've recently done smaller doses of MXP. Did you feel effects from that? MXP seems to have a ridiculously long half life and tolerance so even small doses can build up your tolerance quite substantially. MXE and ketamine probably will contribute to your tolerance as well. With no tolerance I even noticed the effects from 50mg, let alone 200mg.

The closest together I've ever taken MXP was 5 days apart, and even after 5 days I seemed to still have a noticeable tolerance built up (125mg was weaker than 100mg had been 5 days earlier). Based on my limited experience I'd say it will take a minimum of a week to get rid of most tolerance, maybe even up to 2 whole weeks.

MXP really isn't a great dissociative for someone who likes to use them on a regular basis, not only because of the tolerance but also because very little is actually known about its dangers.
 
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