The Big & Dandy Methoxphenidine / MXP / 2-MeO-Diphenidine Thread

[crOOk]

I dunno, whether it has already been discussed, so sorry for repeating the issue. Can someone estimate the half-life in vivo of this compound considering the molecular structure ? Can it be, that it has a very long t/2, for the same reason PCP-derivates have ? Thanks in advance.

I can't estimate it, but it's definitely not a very polar molecule (moreso than diphenidine though), so it could stick around for quite some time indeed. The thing is that you measure the half life based on the remaining activity of the substance in the blood plasma, so the half life might not be telling the whole story, since there are other places in our bodies for chemicals to reside.

 

[FrogWarrior]

Yeah I agree, combining iboga with substances, especially dissociatives (let alone RCs which we know little about) can mean certain death, it should be avoided even if one is familiar with the effects of both substances. I decided to do it for the sake of discovery, I wanted to see what the sigma antagonist properties of iboga would do to the effects of the MXP. Interesting observation I made, the iboga counteracts the cognitive impairment but iboga has such a complex mechanism of action, it proves nothing, I have no idea if the sigma receptors had anything to do with that. Also, I should mention my neurochemistry is kind of haywire, this same combo might be deadly for another person. I had blood pressure test kit beside me (I never got too incapacitated to use it) and had safe sedatives ready in case of serotonin syndrome. And it was a low dose of iboga for me, I seem to have a naturally high tolerance to the substance. BTW diphenidine is not a polar molecule. Its a very non polar molecule. Same goes for MXP. I'm a chem major, I have a pretty good understanding of what causes hydrophilicity, and a molecule like diphenidine is pretty non polar, the only thing that enhances its water solubility is the nitrogen atom but it doesn't seem to be very basic at all. PCP should be a little more water soluble because of there is an extra cyclohexane ring near the nitrogen atom, whereas diphenidine only has a benzyl and phenethyl group attached to the nitrogen atom. Aromatic rings pull electrons away from the nitrogen atom making it less basic (meaning less water soluble). Aliphatic (such as cyclohexane ring) groups do the opposite, they push electrons towards the nitrogen atom, stabilising its ion (meaning a salt can be formed more easily and salts are more water soluble). Methoxy groups are electron donating, so they'll make the aromatic ring more electron rich so everything Solopsis said is correct, the methoxy analogues should be a little more water soluble.

 

[FrogWarrior]

Wow, I strongly recommend against combining things with iboga, there is so much going on there. Of course as you said it was a low dose. Be careful though. Incidentally ibogaine is my favorite dissociative, nothing else like it. Most visionary substance that exists IMO.

I should mention that the dose of iboga I was on wasn't anywhere near a visionary dose. I probably wouldn't be alive right now if it was. The effects were only relaxing. It was only when combined with the MXP that the visions started, and even then they weren't intense, it was the cannabis that brought on the crazy effects. Ibogaine is one of my favourite substances too, but the last stage of it is agonising for me, I never use it recreationally. In the last stage (after about 14 hours), I get this extreme bodily agitation. Other dissociatives don't do that at all, with MXP on its own I can go to sleep fine after about 10 hours, even less.

 

[Xorkoth]

I actually felt kinda weird after I took my follow-up (at 350mg) 6 days after my flood dose, but I figured it was because I had messed up and taken kratom a few times since my flood dose, combined with still being off-balance and lightly hallucinating most of the next day. After and during the flood dose I felt *amazing* and utterly relaxed, but full of energy. I felt that way up until the 5th day when I got a little crazy and took too many other drugs and felt so crazy I ended up taking kratom twice, that pretty much floored the afterglow. The follow-up tied it all together and even though I did experience light witdrawal for days after, I haven't ever taken an opiate again since then. My flood dose was 1100mg, have you taken it that high? It dramatically realigned some of my priorities and inspired healthy patterns. It helped me tremendously in life.

 

[FrogWarrior]

I never got my hands on pure ibogaine and the closest I've come to a flood dose was about 20g root bark, all I got were tracers and mild visions. I wanna do a flood as soon as I can but don't wanna do it alone, want to do it with someone experienced. Ibogaine fascinates me, it clearly holds the key to understanding what causes things like physical dependence and tachyphylaxis etc., just a matter of time before we find it. I bet there are substances that can be combined with the ibogaine to amplify its therapeutic effects. It was someone with dependence issues that discovered its therapeutic effects, and its people with dependence issues that are pioneering the field today. I think it'd be interesting to experiment with combining sigma 2 antagonists with NMDA antagonists and 5-HT2 agonists. I don't know of any readily available, selective sigma antagonists, I'll gladly be a guinea pig for that experiment if I do find one. I can't even take kratom, I experienced tachyphylaxis with codeine and now opioids don't even work on me. I believe it was using trazodone that brought on the abrupt tachyphylaxis which is an interesting observation, trazodone acts mainly as a 5-HT2 antagonist, I did a lot of reading up on other peoples experiences and people who have been on trazodone and mirtazapine have reported the same thing, they became immune to opioids. Theres clearly something there, tachyphylaxis isn't something that commonly occurs with opioids, whereas its pretty common with SSRIs and other serotonergic antidepressants like trazodone and mirtazapine.

 

[Xorkoth]

You MUST do it with someone, take it from me, if you flood dose alone there is no telling what will happen to you. On the third day I was coming to enough to get up and interact with the world, and I thought I was pretty with it but in reality I was dreaming half the time while I was awake and what I thought I was doing was not what I was really doing, and I had absolutely zero ability to discern this. I was unwatched during that day, thinking I'd be alright then, and I may or may not have talked to my neighbor and drove (I don't think I really drove but I have a memory of it, but I think it was a dream). I did in fact freak out when I thought it was 3 days later than it was and I had to work, and I freaked out so hard for a short time that I emailed my boss to tell him my brain was broken, it was the worst email to your boss ever, and I'm fortunate that we have a good relationship. I ended up telling him the truth (days later) and he supported that I had gotten off opiates but had the situation been much different I would have been fired for sure. A flood dose was hands down the most intoxicated I have ever been, and the most uncontrollably away from reality. You need a sitter the whole time, and also give yourself a week if you can to not have to work, have any responsibilities, etc because the reintegration process is long. And a flood dose is seriously visionary... actually even a 350mg dose was extraordinarily visionary, but the flood dose was something else man, something else from any other psychedelic. It seems to work on dream consciousness, you are swept into a long, long series of dreams, visions but in the form of dreams, very vivid and impactful dreams. Even while you're awake.

Also when you do it, do yourself a favor and get both pure HCl and the TA extract and take some of both to make up your total dose... people report that pure HCl only can be stimulating, worryingly so even, and uncomfortable... with the TA as even 25% of my total dose, I felt amazing the whole time, utterly comfortable, no raise in heart rate or blood pressure at all, and afterwards I felt AMAZING. Also I felt no fear at all.

A flood dose is utterly unlike lower doses, it was the craziest and most behavior-changing experience of my life. and it really does last nearly full-on for 3 days. And the metabolites afterwards are a wonderful thing, and can last quite a long time. Best I've ever felt in my life was days 4-6, after I emerged fully from the dreaming.

 

[afer]

Yesterday I was enjoying a medium-dose LSD trip (220mcg). It was at T+7:00, me being almost baseline, when I decided it would be a brilliant idea to take some methoxphenidine (300 mg, a dose that I had previously taken many, many times and which normally leaves me quite coherent). Nothing was happening for an hour or so; then, I went completely, absolutely insane.

I recall lying on the sofa when all of a sudden I noted that I was able to perceive these highly-tuned low-pitched vibrations, which were permeating the entire space and time, not unlike the dmt-esque elvine messages . These vibrations were, of course, continuously recurring and loop-like, steadily growing in intensity. I interpreted these signals as a sign...from, yes, the beings of the higher order which were controlling all the events and processes in the entire universe. I realized that everything that had been happening in my life, all my actions, thoughts and whatnot had been specifically linked and were ultimately preparing me to implement some sort of an intergalactic masterplan. It obviously meant that the universe itself had to be "reborn" anew, and I was the very person who is endowed with supreme powers to accomplish this ordeal. For this to occur, I had to tune in with all the vibrations and direct them into myself, since this would make a new wormhole so that the new era could finally be initiated. Makes perfect sense.

Naturally I did not wait too long and started the universe-making thing. It essentially required that I performed some specific bodily movements - if I did them correctly, I instantly felt the very powers brought by the resonating, self-amplifying vibrations accumulate within me; this was perceived as an incredible bodily-mental euphoria, not paralleled by anything I had ever experienced. After a while I realized that for the new-made universe to exist, the old one must be destroyed...physically. This seemed natural and easy to accomplish, since by now I've gained the supreme powers by giving "birth" to a whole new universe, hence destroying the old one would not be a daunting task - now that I am become "death, the destroyer of worlds" - this is how it felt in a very rough approximation. I decided to finish this off already and become the master of the new universe by tearing the old one apart.

So I did, indeed, violently thrash about the apartment, breaking several pieces of furniture, chandlers, light bulbs, etc...along with the fish tank with all the resulting consequences. What stands out is that while in this utter delirium, I somehow managed to collect the poor fish from the floor, place them into bottle, and fill it with water, not forgetting to add aquatan (a special conditioner that is used to neutralize chlorine so that fish can live in tap water).
Only in an hour or so did I realize what exactly happened, i.e., why there's pieces of wood, pool of water, and broken glass scattered around the apartment.

I slept well and felt completely normal after waking up. The fish are alive and are enjoying their new aquarium as for now.

 

[Xorkoth]

Hah... wow man. You're not hurt are you?

 

[afer]

A bit; some bruises plus two tiny glass particles are reluctant to be pulled from beneath the foot skin so I'll look into that issue when I have a chance - there's national holidays now so this thing can't be dealt with immediately. Nothing major, will live. What interests me more is how the ceiling of my neighbour (who lives beneath my apartment) reacts to this Noah-scale flood!

 

[crOOk]

@afer
It all sounds like good old dissociative fun until that last paragraph.^^^I'm sorry to hear this happened. Not being able to control my actions (mostly heroic redosing) is precisely why I've stayed off both diphenidine and the 2-methoxylated version.

[...] along with the fish tank with all the resulting consequences. What stands out is that while in this utter delirium, I somehow managed to collect the poor fish from the floor, place them into bottle, and fill it with water, not forgetting to add aquatan (a special conditioner that is used to neutralize chlorine so that fish can live in tap water).

It's absolutely astonishing how well some cognitive and motor functions seem to be preserved during the experience while others are completely trashed. Unfortunately that is precisely why this stuff can be so dangerous. In fact, it's probably time to advise people to only do this with a trip sitter (who ideally doesn't mind to be murdered).

 

[Xorkoth]

Heh heh... yeah, that reported matricide was one of the worst drug horror stories I have ever heard. afer's story is pretty bad too, but manageably bad. Still, caution must be very strongly advised here.

 

[Grinders Kiefers]

I sampled MXP recently and found it unremarkable, but my expectations may have been too high or my dosing regimen was off. It wasn't unpleasant, but my experiences felt very shallow and mundane. I realize it's not an arylcyclohexylamine and should not be treated as such, however, I feel like the main downfall of MXP is that it lacks the sort of depth and diversity like other dissociatives have.

 

[afer]

Personally I have found this compound to be much better than MXE in terms of desired effects and side effects. MXE, on the other hand, has the advantage of shutting off my motor skills on high dosages so that all I am capable of is reclining, which makes it somewhat safer.

Also, I must note that prior to this..accident I had taken 500 mg of the same compound the day before and 300 mg the day before that day. I was therefore expecting a massive tolerance, which evidently did not manifest. Maybe the effect of the substance was altered by lingering influence of LSD, or MXPH might have accumulated in tissues due to previous use; however, I find both possibilities unlikely.

Either way, methoxphenidine should be approached with extreme caution.

 

[crOOk]

Also, I must note that prior to this..accident I had taken 500 mg of the same compound the day before and 300 mg the day before that day. I was therefore expecting a massive tolerance, which evidently did not manifest. Maybe the effect of the substance was altered by lingering influence of LSD, or MXPH might have accumulated in tissues due to previous use; however, I find both possibilities unlikely.

In my experience it's the repeated or prolonged use of dissociatives that makes you psychotic, single doses rarely do that. I'm not 100% sure, but I think DXM users call that completely delusional state "sigma plateau" and usually take hours or even days of dosing to reach it.

Anyway, 500mg is a lot of this substance. You might've gone a bit overboard there. Even the 300mg that caused the disaster were probably too much, especially when considering that you still had some LSD lingering in your system. I personally tend to dose these two compounds very high as well, e.g. 750mg on the first day I tried diphenidine, without any dissociative tolerance, but it's those doses that always felt problematic. Shame that even lower single doses (2-meo-diphenidine 150mg, diphenidine 250mg) cause me to redose despite strong prior intent not to do so.

 

[afer]

IIRC, sigma plateau is reached in a matter of one day by ingesting precisely calculated DXM dosages throughout several hours' span. I would simply call it redosing, though haven't done it myself and am not too experienced with DXM, so others probably should know better.

Interestingly, I have found myself much less likely to redose on diphenidine/methoxphenidine than on MXE. In part because MXPH lasts longer, and also because it is not that tasty (MXE is bearable), which makes sublingual ROA less welcome, therefore necessitating oral administration; when gelcapped and swallowed, it takes 40 minutes + before I notice anything. That delayed onset of action makes me much less likely to redose.

 

[crOOk]

IIRC, sigma plateau is reached in a matter of one day by ingesting precisely calculated DXM dosages throughout several hours' span. I would simply call it redosing, though haven't done it myself and am not too experienced with DXM, so others probably should know better.

Interestingly, I have found myself much less likely to redose on diphenidine/methoxphenidine than on MXE. In part because MXPH lasts longer, and also because it is not that tasty (MXE is bearable), which makes sublingual ROA less welcome, therefore necessitating oral administration; when gelcapped and swallowed, it takes 40 minutes + before I notice anything. That delayed onset of action makes me much less likely to redose.

I don't really care about taste when I'm on 250mg diphenidine already lol. The MXE I prefer to IV but I rarely do it because I don't really enjoy MXE, which is precisely why I don't redose on it. I get really bad double vision, I don't properly hole, the amnesia is worse than on k, it's just not very pleasant or rewarding for me, so the idea of a redose just isn't attractive. I also don't go completely batshit on it like I do on diphenidine which seems to annihilate all sense of judgement in me. Taste definitely isn't an issue in that state. Plus, when you drink it with milk it isn't that bad at all.

 

[afer]

I did not particularly enjoy MXE as well; compared to methoxphenidine it was inferior in almost all aspects for me. First I tried methoxphenidine, then finally got my hands on MXE and was excited as hell, thinking that now I had the "real deal" that MXPH was supposed to be a legal replacement for. Well, the replacement turned out to be much better than the original. MXE gave me some unpleasant double vision, hardcore amnesia, nausea, sedation, and severe motor discoordination. MXPH does not produce any these side effects in my case. Diphenidine is a bit worse than its methoxylated version, perhaps lacking some euphoric aspect and being overall less potent by weight, as well as being of shorter duration; still better than MXE if you ask me.

 

[crOOk]

MXE gave me some unpleasant double vision, hardcore amnesia, nausea, sedation, and severe motor discoordination.

I'm with you on this one, MXE feels inferior in every aspect to other dissociatives, there's nothing that really motivates me to use over diphenidine and it's derivate except for the fact that it can be IV'ed. BUT to be fair these side effects you list usually go hand in hand with the most popular dissociatives, especially ketamine, most of them also occur when you use PCP, but to a lesser extent.

 

[dreamofrc]

So I did, indeed, violently thrash about the apartment, breaking several pieces of furniture, chandlers, light bulbs, etc...along with the fish tank with all the resulting consequences.

Glad to hear you (and your fish ) are okay for the most part. You can always replace/fix stuff, but not people. Sounds like a pretty crazy experience.

Moving around in general on MXP does feel (or not feel?) AMAZING, so I can definitely see how your dissociated mind could tell you these movements had some greater significance. I'm sure I've made all sorts of strange movements and dances while under its influence. Your dose was higher than anything I've tried though, plus it was probably influenced by the lingering LSD somewhat.

In my experience it's the repeated or prolonged use of dissociatives that makes you psychotic, single doses rarely do that.

Yep. While a single dose can certainly cause a psychotic episode (especially if you are prone to them or have other risk factors), it's repeated use that does it most of the time. When you are spending that much time under the influence of dissociatives reality and what's in your mind start to blur and it becomes harder and harder to tell what is actually real and whether your thought processes and actions actually make sense.

 

[phatass]

This stuff sounds dangerous at high doses without a trip sitter and boring at normal/low doses... doubt i'll try this one....