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The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine / MXE Thread - Part 16 - Sweet 16 mind-control machine

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Solipsis

Solipsis

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The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine / MXE Thread - Part 16 - Sweet 16 mind-control machine

Welcome to the Big & Dandy Methoxetamine Thread (V. 16)

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Warning: Methoxetamine has not been studied in animals let alone humans or otherwise really at all, and does seem to have somewhat addictive properties in some users. Please use caution
- any major dude
Warning: Due to the current popularity of Methoxetamine these threads are attracting a lot of attention. Some of this attention is welcome, in the form of harm reduction, usage tips and general information about the drug. Some of it is not..

This is NOT a social thread. Please keep all discussion here about Methoxetamine. This can be questions about dosage, usage, different ROAs etc, suggestions for other users, you can post a link to a trip report you've just submitted, or write some brief notes about what you think of the drug having tried it (no live trip reports though). Social chatter, and "I'm tripping balls right now!" posts belong in The Social Thread or the Drug Culture forum, or your appropriate regional forum.

If people start using this thread as a social thread again, all such posts will be deleted, and you will be given an informal warning over PM. If you continue to ignore that any continued such posts will be treated as spam and dealt with accordingly. ~Jesusgreen

Some of the latest posts from the previous thread, The topic of 'today' seems to be polymorphism e.g. here of MXE, verity and implications:

Asante said:
I love how the delusional effects of MXE are working their way into the science in this thread. What docks with your receptors are single dissolved molecules of Methoxetamine. Crystal polymorphism has exactly nothing to do with the drug's effects because that property is lost upon dissolving.

Thought experiment. Ammonium nitrate has 7 polymorphs. Which one is significant when you dissolve it into water? Thats right, none, because its all ammonium nitrate and a solution consists of single molecules dissolved in a solvent.

Iron has several crystalline polymorphs that impart properties like brittleness and to which degree the metal will bend or break. Which is significant when you melt the metal?

If its that obvious for an inorganic salt and a metal we don't obsess over, why should it be less obvious for another molecule, the hydrochloride salt of an alkaloid?

What is at work here is IMPURITIES, the DIFFERENCE IN SUBJECTIVE EFFECTS BETWEEN DOSES and THE TENDENCY OF DISSOCIATIVES TO LEAD THOUGHT PROCESSES ASTRAY.

Y'all are preaching pseudoscience. If you have 30mg 99.9% methoxetamine hydrochloride of every imaginable polymorph and dissolve each in 30ml distilled water in shotglasses, none of you will be able to tell which is which on a blind test. I'm sorry guys you're chasing your own tail.
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Doldrugs said:
"In the case of the antiviral drug ritonavir, not only was one polymorph virtually inactive compared to the alternative crystal form, but the inactive polymorph was subsequently found to convert the active polymorph into the inactive form on contact, due to its lower energy and greater stability making spontaneous interconversion energetically favourable. Even a speck of the lower energy polymorph could convert large stockpiles of ritonivir into the medically useless inactive polymorph, and this caused major issues with production which ultimately were only solved by reformulating the medicine into gelcaps and tablets, rather than the original capsules."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphism_(materials_science)
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Crashing said:
Yeah, I wouldnt have totally agreed with Asante for years until i read what Doldrugs just posted.

I really hope someone with advanced chem knowledge can clear this up.

No one is preaching anything, there just happen to be articles that explain polymorphic differences quite directly, and i'm definitely feeling a bit confused.
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vortech said:
There is a vibrational component here to consider when studying the differences between different MXE batches. Look at the science of cymatics to get a good picture of it-different crystalline structures have different resonant frequencies, and even after those structures are broken down into individual MXE molecules, the individual molecules still retain at least a component of residual vibrational character. Polymorphism aside, even if it is just impurities, the impurities may also influence the vibrational characteristics of the MXE. It is a real phenomena with observable effects as Doldrugs just exemplified with ritonavir.
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Help?!?! said:
To me it's all over thinking a, but I've never cared to argue about nonsensical things that make no real differences. I had MXE from a thousand different sources in quite large amounts. It is one of the most water souble chemicals I've encountered except for some michallenous items and some psychedelics.
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First.

I should stop browsing this thread until I come across some myself. Sick of reading how positive most of you lot are finding this compound :P
 
Do you ever see a 2000 page book? No you get a trilogy at least.
But yes, MXE threads are unusual for PD in the sense that they are almost social threads sometimes and indeed have a high 'random posting' account. But no reason to let it all just run wild and proliferate. :P
(fyi I draw the line at 30 pages so it was overdue in my opinion. think of our / my ritual and procedure what you will, but at long as there isn't any narrow or blank minded policing activity by staff organization could hardly hurt)
 
What do you mean a wash? Some off-topic/sourcing posts were removed, and the reason there is a new thread is because we are supposed to close threads once they get above 750 posts, and move to a new one. In general we allow any posts about MXE in here, unless there is sourcing. We try to remove the social chatter that doesn't contain any information, as well as posts from people saying in effect "I can't wait to try this" or "I'm getting this soon" that don't add anything to the discussion because people use these mega threads for information and we want to keep the number of posts down to just the useful ones as much as possible since there is so much information to sift through.
 
Sorry, was only a metaphor for the 750 post renewal thing... rest is confusion I didn't mean.
 
The whole MXE frenzy is apparently also kind of a RC / online drug geek culture thing cause ketamine doesn't nearly get this kind of traffic, and well there is quite some social stuff and frankly garbage just like there was in the 6-APB / benzo fury threads. Still, it's very simple and Xorkoth addressed it while I was getting to be difficult about it.
Anyway I am sort of relieved this gets us off the topic of polymorphism, hehe. Seriously it makes me uncomfortable... makes me very curious as well, it is just itchy about it.
 
I've been wanting to try PCP for a while now. How does that compare to MXE?
 
Who else loves doing flow arts on lower levels of MXE? Its one of the more revelatory holistic practices, to become one with the flow and engage the physical body, unifying the energies around a center...ya know, a vortex. It's vortech. What I like to do personally is like Liquid and Digits with an emphasis on the liquid, though I'm sure hooping , aerials and poi work just as well too.
 
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So no one has any info on their experiences with different polymorphs? I think the discussion on the existence/meaning of polymorphism has run its course but no one ever actually answered my inquiry.
 
Jesus you people and polyshitisum fuck IMO. Over thought gets you nowhere. Learn up on it and you'll see what I mean. There's some valid points to it but as many are valid, there are useless.

Agreed Solip, the APB threads were a mess and I think ketamine threads don't get much traffic due to its age and that there aren't really many questions left. The data is available everywhere in spades!

Just check around a of the PCP but suffice to say their completely different beasts with a lot of differences. Check about Erowid for more information. Simply do a comparison of MXE's effects versus PCP and you'll see what I mean, also wiki is a great resource!
 
Help?!?! said:
Jesus you people and polyshitisum fuck IMO. Over thought gets you nowhere. Learn up on it and you'll see what I mean. There's some valid points to it but as many are valid, there are useless.
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Are you saying a discussion is overthinking? Kinda what the forum is for, i thought. I have no idea what you mean at all.

Can you explain the presence of medical literature that states a drugs effects can vary dramatically based on which polymorph is in question?

Solipsis seems flat out scared of the idea of polymorphism, unless i completely misunderstood his post. There seems to be an GREAT value in understanding the potential validity of this concept.

Honestly, it's understanding ideas like this that define a self help forum..
 
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The only big WTF I have here, is why is MXE the only compound to get so much attention on the topic of polymorphs? Obviously this concept is nothing new, so if it holds any scientific basis with regards to difference in effects from the exact same compound, then why don't we have the same ludicrously in-depth circular 'discussions' on the differing effects of other compounds' polymorphs? Surely any psychoactive compound that can arrange itself into slightly differing crystalline structures would present similar results...

It's just hard to accept something that goes against (admittedly very simple) logic when it isn't being applied to multiple situations of the same basic circumstance.....
 
Troz, tryin to do my part - http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/745066-The-Good-and-the-Bad-LSD

MXE thread just happens to be the first place i personally have ever heard of it. This has nothing to do with subjective effects.

I've received many different MXE batches, for example, that were either polymorphs or a different drug entirely. But that's beside the point, really.

I half expect more people to chime in with a 'wtf'
 
Its simply worthless overthinking. There's many scientific literature that's outdated as well as misproven. What's the point on thinking about something that's virtually useless? There's much bigger things at hand like impurities as well as cuts. I only say this because I've done this for such a long time and find such tedious things just cause mainly useless banter. Not to sound like I'm bragging but I've used a lot of MXE as well as other compounds and to me it's simply worthless discussion for the most part. The people who speak on it are always the users known to buy into such shenanigans, except the new comers. All I'm saying is don't overthink it and don't worry to much about it. Many used to think MXE also had u opioid ago ism and still based on feels. It still comes up even though it was readily set to bed ages ago. These sort of nowhere discussions go on all the time... It's always best not to overthink these sorts of things... Now if a study on MXE comes out confirming its polymorphisms then...
 
Help?!?! If this doesn't interest you, that's totally cool. However, please don't discourage other people from diving into a topic that could potentially change the way we view and understand drugs in the future. If you haven't been following, MXE is merely the parent thread in which the topic was conceived, and here it remains for now.

If this is a worthless discussion, i will gladly entertain your much bigger topics concerning impurities and cuts.

Studies are out confirming the presence of polymorphism, polymorphism does not appear to be isolated to a particular subset of chemicals. If this was set to bed ages ago, all I ask is that you refresh my memory, because i'm having trouble recalling that.
 
Your simply not following what I'm saying but nonetheless it doesn't matter. For instance you went right over the fact that since its inception many and I mean many more talented people have claimed MXE to work as mu opioid agonist but the theory was put to bed as quickly as it began but you'll still see threads arguing about it.... All you keep speaking of is sceicetific studies but so many have been misproven over the years with new testing, I'll say it once more though, show me a current study on MXE polymorpiisms and I'll say nothing more and be quite interested. Until then stop the nonesense chatter that just drives up rumors and useless debate! Sorry if that's harsh but it's simply how it is!
 
I keep forgetting that this is a rather narrowly focused website, supposedly drug harm reduction. I keep thinking it's like general drug duscussion. I would assume that the only way to reduce the potential harm from MXE would be to keep doses as low as possible to get some desirable effects. Taking high doses to "hole" is pretty likely to cause some kidney damage. You might not notice it at the time but maybe when you get old your kidneys would be the first part to go. The possible kidney effects are the one thing that really concerns me about the compound. I think we need more than the one study involving mice and doses of 30 mg/kg daily for three months.

On the subject of the mice study, I found in this article the formula for converting animal doses to human. Using the conversion factor for mice, which I worked out to be 0.081, we multiply it by 30 (the dose in mg/kg) to get 2.43 mg/kg. Taking 80 kg as an average human male's weight, we get a dose of 194.6 mg. They gave the mice their doses only once per day. It wasn't a steady drip 24 hours a day or anything. Admittedly, a 200 mg dose (rounding up) would be a little high for most people but it's not unheard of. Maybe a lower dose would also cause similar damage but less severe. If I did the calculation correctly and if the effects in mice correlate to the effects in humans then this is a little worrying. Some people have indeed taken MXE daily for months and in quite high doses. They may be tolerant to the inebriating effects, therefore requiring high doses, but their kidneys aren't tolerant to the damaging effects. Details of the study are in this article in the "D2.1. Animal Data and In Vitro Studies" section. I don't mean to be a downer but this is a harm reduction forum so the subject needs to be discussed. It's a shame that such a promising compound has this worrying bad side.
 
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