The Big & Dandy Methoxetamine / MXE Thread - Holey Shit no. 15

[phuckingnutz]

Has anyone tried all the polymorphs? What are the differences in effects between them all?

Poly=many
morph=shape.
All "polymorph" means is that there are many shapes of crystal in a particular sample of MXE, but it's still MXE.
The differences in quality are due to byproducts, impurities and inconsistencies in synthesis.

 

[Doldrugs]

Poly=many
morph=shape.
All "polymorph" means is that there are many shapes of crystal in a particular sample of MXE, but it's still MXE.
The differences in quality are due to byproducts, impurities and inconsistencies in synthesis.

While that makes plenty of sense to me, I don't know that it's the prevailing opinion.

 

[Yeetbeat]

Poly=many
morph=shape.
All "polymorph" means is that there are many shapes of crystal in a particular sample of MXE, but it's still MXE.
The differences in quality are due to byproducts, impurities and inconsistencies in synthesis.

Finally someone else has expressed what I've been thinking every time I hear this polymorph shit. If it's the structure of the crystal, once it's broken into individual molecules and binds to receptors, it makes no fkn difference what shape the crystal was. Only isomers would make a difference.

But I know jack shit about chemistry lol

 

[Doldrugs]

Yeah I totally agree with the logic behind that, it just seems like a lot of people disagree.

 

[phuckingnutz]

While that makes plenty of sense to me, I don't know that it's the prevailing opinion.

That may be the prevailing opinion...doesn't mean it's right.
All I'm saying is that polymorph means many shapes.
I'm NOT saying that there aren't differences from batch to batch, because there are.
However, these differences have exactly fuck-all to do with crystal shape, and that's not opinion...it's a fucking fact!

 

[MagickalKat777]

Polymorphism is a well known phenomenon. It is why generic alprazolam and wellbutrin among other meds suck and don't do what they are supposed to.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455340

 

[phuckingnutz]

Polymorphism is a well known phenomenon. It is why generic alprazolam and wellbutrin among other meds suck and don't do what they are supposed to.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17455340

All that showed was that different crystal forms were obtained by various methods using the SAME material for every form. They used the same sample and grew several crystal forms by melting it and doing a recrx. Meaning that it is what it is what it is...
All I'm saying is MXE is MXE is MXE. If you think crystal structure is going to effect potency or the way it is metabolized then what happens when you ingest it and the crystals all break down?
It is also NOT why many generics are inferior...that goes back to impurities and poor synthesis.
Monomorphic MXE isn't any different than polymorphic MXE, it's just much harder to obtain.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Think about it this way.MXE is not very soluble so every change means that one part of the crystal hits a receptor first. I'm not going to spend hours pulling up articles. Alprazolam is polymorphic and it has been proven to have different effects across polymorphs. MXE is no different. Believe what you want but you're wrong.

 

[AA357]

Their lack of physical dependency was a major draw for me. The engulfing warmness that accompanies NDMA antagonisim is just as enjoyable as sniffing a couple bags of good dope IMHO. When considering the empathy and spiritual revelations the body high is just a bonus. As for being able to function, low doses of dxm (300mgs) abolished my crippling social anxiety. Mxe works the same way, however, abusing them wreaks havoc on your cognitive abilities and really screws with your train of thought. After months of using mxe in the same way a stoner smokes weed I seemed to have developed a Tangential Speech like disorder causing me to constantly trail off mid sentence and to draaaaag out my words for a good five seconds while I try to remember the next word.

Granted it does feel great and the lack of dependence liability is a great thing. I'd be wary of using it frequently though because of the potential for bladder and kidney damage (as well as the cognitive impairment).

It amazes me how people can find empathy and spirituality in a drug that makes you so numb and dissociated. Personally, MXE makes me feel like a psychopath.

Just trying to say, I know a lot of people on here and a few in real life who have had a serious problem with dissociatives, especially MXE. That's great you don't feel it's an issue for you but it's a very real thing for plenty of people.

Also I'm not saying that dissociatives don't actually exact a toll, but individual uses feel more "easy" to me than individual uses of psychedelics. You can dose MXE and there is rarely any difficulty in the experience, whereas with psychedelics there are often negative feelings and anxiety to work through. So it's easier to take dissociatives regularly (for most people).

Different strokes for different folks I guess. MXE's nice, but I find it gets boring if I take it too often.
For me, 2C-E is a very easy-going psychedelic - I can take a 30mg dose pretty much whenever I want. More euphoria and fewer side effects than with MXE.

Indeed, It's pretty much like psychedelic heroin, just keep that in mind.

LOL. I've often thought of 2C-E as 'psychedelic heroin'. It's the only psychedelic I can take when I'm in a really bad mood and still end up having a great trip. After the initial 2 hours (which are quite stimulating), it feels sedating and sometimes makes me nod.

 

[phuckingnutz]

Think about it this way.MXE is not very soluble so every change means that one part of the crystal hits a receptor first. I'm not going to spend hours pulling up articles. Alprazolam is polymorphic and it has been proven to have different effects across polymorphs. MXE is no different. Believe what you want but you're wrong.

Well Kat, I stand corrected. I did some further reading and you are 100% right.
Differences in everything from solubility and melting point to bioavailability across different polymorphs.
After thinking about it I remembered something about elemental Phosphorous. Red Phos is identical to white in all things save that the red has it's molecules in a long chain and the yellow doesn't, but the red is nontoxic and can even be ingested safely and excreted unchanged. The white/yellow an the other hand is lethal at a dose of 100 mg or so...same substance different properties.
So, thank you for the info...learn something new everyday...hopefully.

 

[Crashing]

Well Kat, I stand corrected. I did some further reading and you are 100% right.
Differences in everything from solubility and melting point to bioavailability across different polymorphs.
After thinking about it I remembered something about elemental Phosphorous. Red Phos is identical to white in all things save that the red has it's molecules in a long chain and the yellow doesn't, but the red is nontoxic and can even be ingested safely and excreted unchanged. The white/yellow an the other hand is lethal at a dose of 100 mg or so...same substance different properties.
So, thank you for the info...learn something new everyday...hopefully.

So, different types of LSD (non-)myth completely explained... instantly... ?

 

[Doldrugs]

So now that we've worked that out...

Has anyone tried all the different polymorphs and how do they differ?

 

[Yeetbeat]

I too am glad to stand corrected here. I was running off the assumption that by the time any compound had crossed the BBB, it'd been fully dissolved down to its individual molecules, and therefore its initial crystal structure was of zero relevance.

So apparently molecules can attach themselves to a receptor without having been properly broken away from other molecules within the crystal structure, thereby somehow creating a different effect?

 

[Crashing]

My mind is sort of being blown right now, not sure if I'm understanding this correctly. This could however explain my experience with 3 different 'versions' of purported MXE.

I've received powder MXE, is has been nearly inactive and sedative mainly. This could be the amorphic version.
I've received cubical crystalline MXE, most psychedelic and dissociative in nature. Polymorph A
I've received crystalline MXE, similar to the cubical crystalline but weaker. Polymorph B



edit - http://www.allfordrugs.com/polymorphism/

 

[phuckingnutz]

I too am glad to stand corrected here. I was running off the assumption that by the time any compound had crossed the BBB, it'd been fully dissolved down to its individual molecules, and therefore its initial crystal structure was of zero relevance.

So apparently molecules can attach themselves to a receptor without having been properly broken away from other molecules within the crystal structure, thereby somehow creating a different effect?

Here is my source, I didn't go in depth just far enough t know my reasoning was flawed.
Someone else might find some "pearls" to share.
So, for what it's worth: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/02/briefing/3900B1_04_Polymorphism.htm

 

[Funkadelica]

To chime in with is isomer shit. One month with my guys I had the lovely, spot on yellowish sandy colour stuff, that would take me to places.

2 weeks later, I receieved some whitish clumpy looking stuff and was utter, utter shite. I gave it a good, good few goes (I'm not one for wasting) but this was the only time, out of knowing it was shit that I threw down the toilet.

Horrible MXE, mongy and dirty feeling. No inspirations, no positivity, only urges to curse the suppliers every time unfortunately (no, I know it's not them).

I will not, never, let my last ever moment of MXE bring me to letting everything go in toilet. Never. The most inspirational drug I've had the privilege to try.

 

[jason7]

What I do now is take quite low doses so I don't get frighteningly bent. I do about 1/2-3/4" pretty thin line. This way I just get a nice little buzz, the drip is tolerable and my kidneys don't need to work as hard. I don't even know how people can take 100 mg or so. I just find it way too extreme in doses less than half of that.

Here's a good thing though. I mentioned in a post a while ago that when I was overly bent once I was looking at TV and saw people with no nose or mouth, just a blank area, and I thought I was hallucinating. Well I later saw it again and it was just a weird insurance commercial. That's really how they looked, it was makeup. It was scary as hell on MXE though. I thought I had gone over the edge there. That was the worst possible time for that commercial to come on.

 

[CosmicG]

Jason that is crazy man but hilarious at the same time. I agree light doses of mxe seem to be quite pleasurable. Between 25 to fifty mgs seems to be a good dose for myself.
I've been on a movie kick with MXE lately but decided to switch things up a bit and take my dogs on a walk at twelve I clock at night while it was lightly raining after dosing myself 25 mgs. Spectacular decision doing physical activities while on dissociatives is a lot of fun. One of my dogs is still only seven months old and it has been frustrating trying to train her to walk without pulling so much. this normally drives me crazy but while on mxe it did not bother me one bit and by the end of it she was exhausted and making progress. Now how to bring this patience discovered with MXE into my every day life as I seem to be lacking in doing so.

 

[vortech]

Now how to bring this patience discovered with MXE into my every day life as I seem to be lacking in doing so.

With enough practice occupying that state of mind (for instance continuing to use MXE intentionally for metaprogrammimg), you will eventually inherit those qualities as they solidify/crystallize into your body-mind-spirit, making it easier to tune into that state when needed. At least that is my experience. I am very much a new person as a result of my experiments of intentional practice. After a couple weeks though of not using MXE I feel tendencies of my 'old' self begin to resurface, so the 'new' self needs to be refreshed somewhat regularly. Like meditation, the positive effect ripple long after the practice, but it needs to be kept up or the ripples fade away.

 

[Asante]

I love how the delusional effects of MXE are working their way into the science in this thread. What docks with your receptors are single dissolved molecules of Methoxetamine. Crystal polymorphism has exactly nothing to do with the drug's effects because that property is lost upon dissolving.

Thought experiment. Ammonium nitrate has 7 polymorphs. Which one is significant when you dissolve it into water? Thats right, none, because its all ammonium nitrate and a solution consists of single molecules dissolved in a solvent.

Iron has several crystalline polymorphs that impart properties like brittleness and to which degree the metal will bend or break. Which is significant when you melt the metal?

If its that obvious for an inorganic salt and a metal we don't obsess over, why should it be less obvious for another molecule, the hydrochloride salt of an alkaloid?

What is at work here is IMPURITIES, the DIFFERENCE IN SUBJECTIVE EFFECTS BETWEEN DOSES and THE TENDENCY OF DISSOCIATIVES TO LEAD THOUGHT PROCESSES ASTRAY.

Y'all are preaching pseudoscience. If you have 30mg 99.9% methoxetamine hydrochloride of every imaginable polymorph and dissolve each in 30ml distilled water in shotglasses, none of you will be able to tell which is which on a blind test. I'm sorry guys you're chasing your own tail.