Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy Methallylescaline (MAL) Thread

[xdrc]

In Shulgins writeup he mentioned first time doing it was surrounded by unreality and was too much. He did oral dosing. He went higher and sometimes said it was okay and sometimes said, too much.

I understand I'm quoting an old post, but as nobody pointed it out it still feels helpful to clarify that a lot, if not most experience reports in PiHKAL/TiHKAL for the compounds are not by Ann & Alexander Shulgin, but instead the research group surrounding him or even taken from reports sent in to him by letter.

Sometimes it may be helpful to cross-reference Shulgin's pharmacology notebooks, which is possible via the isomerdesign website.

 

[Innerpeace]

I'm responding to an old post but I want to back this up. I don't think it's a good idea to roll if you're suicidal. I have used psychedelics to pull myself out of suicidal depression but that's not me saying that it'd be fine for everyone. There are certain times in life where it's probably not a good idea to consume anything that can affect mood or behavior.

I've attempted suicide twice. The first time was while I was on 5-MAPB. I always thought if someone would kill themselves because of an empathogen it'd be because of the comedown or recovery week afterwards. I did it during the peak though. Serotonin plays a role in how we experience fear, so it makes sense that taking something that makes you not feel fear might not be a good idea if you've been having suicidal thoughts, as fear and self-preservation are the main reasons people don't attempt suicide.

The second time was while I was in the middle of a meth bender. Don't think I need to explain that one

that was a long time ago, a year when I used deca only which causes low dopamine and increased prolactin. Andrew huberman did a podcast to think about the negative, ive always visualized positive outcomes, and thought bout the absoluete worst as a human, killing myself. I did it based on misinformation and extremely disfunctional brain chemistry .

It took a long time for brain chemistry to return but it did. In a much more Enlighted positive, gratitude nd loving place since then and most of all learned lesson about deca. Dopamine finally went back to original, close to it, or optimal. Thanks for your concern though. I know things can work out in your favor; provided you do what s necessary for them to .

 

[Pfafffed]

How is rectal compared to oral dosing,? Does it cause a person to administer less milligrams?

I have only done this a couple times, so my sample size isn't great. Dosage-response curves are subject to random outlier experiences. That said, it seemed like rectal and oral dosing had similar potency, unlike the 2C-x series (which is significantly more potent rectally.)

 

[Innerpeace]

How about dosing this at lower desired dose, for a more empathogenic expirience, then two hours in dosing, for a more psychedlic expirience, dosing again, after empathogen expirience?

 

[Pfafffed]

How about dosing this at lower desired dose, for a more empathogenic expirience, then two hours in dosing, for a more psychedlic expirience, dosing again, after empathogen expirience?

It might work. People report being able to redose peyote throughout long sessions, so it's possible that the tolerance window might not slam shut a few hours in. But it might.

For reasons I don't understand at all, I've got the impression that booster doses seem to kick in much faster than initial doses. I don't think I'd personally expect a booster to take two additional hours to come on, but there are a lot of reasons I might be wrong about that.

 

[-5MeoAmt-]

I encountered some physical difficulties during my Methallylescaline experience. Methallylescaline has it's own beauty and potential to guide you to the good in our world; I was not focused on that. My MAL experience was not that good.

At moderate and high doses I had mild peripheral vascular distress develop during the end of the approximately 8 hour trip combined with aches and tension in my body.

The past few years have been tough. I am holding on to lots of trauma I can not let go of from Coronavirus. I volunteer, I have my faith, and I am always struggling to integrate all that happened. I am working on healing our world. Somehow that is never enough and when I think I am finally healing the constant interruptions of life take over: I am flipping through channels and the cell phone rings, my neighbors yell over the fence because they need help with something, I close down Twitter only to get more notifications from Instagram, and then the dog barks.

The color and beauty of Methallylescaline guided me down a kaleidoscope of euphoria and tactile sensations to a dreamlike recall of my youth that almost became a free loving spontaneous new start that crashed into all of the trauma I can not integrate. MAL turned this trauma into physical distress manifested in physical aches, peripheral vascular distress, and possibly mild rhabdomyolysis. If I were less stressed or maybe less exhausted I think I could have expereinced the last part of the trip more positively.

Start low and be careful. There's the possibility of physical trouble. The psychonaut wiki list the dose range as 5mg - 60mg. I'd probably amend the dosing recomindation and say: 3mg - 45mg.

I am a sensitive person and I have expored the full range of doses for psilocybin and some psilocybin analgoues. Even at higher doses most 4 substituted tryptamines did not demonstrate significant physical complications.

I do not expect MAL to be that safe. Higher doses could be dangerous.

 

[Innerpeace]

2023 did Mal ten times, maybe, maybe seven. Had severe depression issues during and after it's use ...it's about all used so am cautious with mal.. always did 20-25 mgs

Feb 2024 mixed with 50 mgs 5 mapb and was awesome. Again cautious from experience, it was like MDMA or empathogen abuse. Mixing it with an empathogen is good and preferable than mixing a sub 4 typtamine.

Any reports on sub q or even Intra m..im Mal?

 

[username_required]

Took about 50mg of MAL fumarate a couple of weeks ago along with my girlfriend and another friend. Myself and my girlfriend had taken acid about 5 days prior but my friend had not. My friend and I had both drank about a litre of chocolate milk roughly an hour before taking the MAL and both of us felt no effects from the MAL after about 2 hours while my girlfriend who didn’t drink any milk absolutely felt the MAL. Is this a known interaction with phenethylamines and milk that I’ve never heard about?

Anyway, I plan on mixing some MAL with MDMA and LSD on new year’s eve, will try and provide some sort of report of that experience!

 

[username_required]

Took about 50mg of MAL fumarate a couple of weeks ago along with my girlfriend and another friend. Myself and my girlfriend had taken acid about 5 days prior but my friend had not. My friend and I had both drank about a litre of chocolate milk roughly an hour before taking the MAL and both of us felt no effects from the MAL after about 2 hours while my girlfriend who didn’t drink any milk absolutely felt the MAL. Is this a known interaction with phenethylamines and milk that I’ve never heard about?

Anyway, I plan on mixing some MAL with MDMA and LSD on new year’s eve, will try and provide some sort of report of that experience!

I had a somewhat similar experience to this on NYE. I took 55mg of MAL Fumarate in 2 doses spaced about 45 minutes apart from each other. I did not notice anything during the first hour and begun to notice some very slight changes to my vision but nothing I could exactly quantify by around hour 2ish. I had eaten a chicken sandwich about an hour and a bit before I took my MAL and I also had about 0.5mg of flualprazolam alongside the MAL. I had 2 tabs of acid at hour 3 and no MDMA since none of my dealers had any, and I would say the acid completely took over the rest of the night. I will attempt another trip with MAL later this week once my tolerance is reset without eating beforehand and without any other drugs that could alter the experience. A bit disappointed but still very ty eager to experience an actual trip from MAL.

Side note: I also had a few tokes of CBD weed (0.4% THC and 6% CBD) to help with the nausea since THC gives me anxiety and I would definitely say it helped quite a bit. If anyone else is in the same situation I would recommend it.

 

[Kmas]

Took about 50mg of MAL fumarate a couple of weeks ago along with my girlfriend and another friend. Myself and my girlfriend had taken acid about 5 days prior but my friend had not. My friend and I had both drank about a litre of chocolate milk roughly an hour before taking the MAL and both of us felt no effects from the MAL after about 2 hours while my girlfriend who didn’t drink any milk absolutely felt the MAL. Is this a known interaction with phenethylamines and milk that I’ve never heard about?

Drinking milk to counteract the effects of an ingested drug and make you sleepy is an old trick I learned from my grandma. The milk coats the drug and makes it much slower and more difficult to absorb. Even more so than ingesting a substance on a full stomach because it has a tendency to 'bind' to the substance. One time I talked her into eating a small dose of mushrooms.

About half an hour after eating it she felt the first rush, said, 'Whoops.' and poured herself a big glass of milk. I didn't give her as much as she thought but she barely felt them after that. Milk will also cause your body to move blood from the brain and nervous system to your stomach while it digests. Which isn't easy for your body because it's not meant for humans, more so if you're lactose intolerant. This may reduce the intensity of the trip and shorten the duration. I never take milk with medication or with any substances I intend to enjoy. If I'm overloaded and would like to rest without taking harder stuff a glass of milk works as a very mild sedative.

 

[Pfafffed]

While I'm skeptical that anything you've said has anything in the way of supporting evidence, I'm glad that it works for you. It sure isn't going to help.

FWIW, I take my psychedelics with milk instead of water pretty commonly, because it gets some easy calories into me before what's usually a long period of fasting. Never noticed any impact on my trips.

 

[Kmas]

While I'm skeptical that anything you've said has anything in the way of supporting evidence, I'm glad that it works for you. It sure isn't going to help.

FWIW, I take my psychedelics with milk instead of water pretty commonly, because it gets some easy calories into me before what's usually a long period of fasting. Never noticed any impact on my trips.

Quite a bit of science about what milk does to the gut. Especially to lactose-intolerant people. A lot of it is genetic but milk is strange stuff and then it gets altered by humans. It worked for little Alex in A Clockwork Orange.

When I was a kid my little brother decided to have a big glass of milk and a big glass of OJ. The juice curdled the milk and led to projectile vomiting. Great stuff.

The Ayahuasca people forbid milk before Ayahuasca.

Are there any restrictions on consuming dairy products while following the Ayahuasca diet?​

Yes, dairy products should be avoided while following the Ayahuasca diet. This restriction aims to minimize inflammation and ensure that the body is in its best state for the ceremony. Removing dairy helps in achieving this goal.

Understanding the Ayahuasca Diet: Preparation for Your Journey - Ayahuasca In Colombia

Learn about the ayahuasca diet and how it prepares you for a transformative ceremony at LaWayra. Embrace mindful eating for spiritual clarity and healing.

ayahuascaincolombia.com

Here's some more links about milk messing with various kinds of medication. I know it messes with some drugs I've been prescribed but not others.,

https://www.clinicaltherapeutics.com/article/S0149-2918(15)00509-3/fulltext#:~:text=The%20milk%20interferes%20with%20the,%2C%20omeprazole%2C%20spironolactone%20and%20ranitidine.

Does Milk Cut The Effect Of Drugs - Statcare

Learn whether consuming milk can reduce the effectiveness of drugs. Get expert insights and make informed decisions about your healthcare.

statcarewalkin.com

The PH, the blockers, peptides, the various chemicals, hormones, along with cow's milk being a food for baby cows, not grown humans, makes it a crapshoot as to what the outcome might be. I've never liked tripping on an empty stomach but eating something that's light and easy to digest and won't cause indigestion is ideal before eating something that's going to be annoying if it causes any bodily dysphoria or nausea.

Supplementing those articles, this one below states fat soluble drugs seem to absorb better in milk. CBD for instance, and I'd assume THC. Bhang or butter are a great way to make ganja more psychoactive when heat is added, through decarboxylated.

Taking opiates or other water soluble drugs or very potent drugs with milk might not work so well. Milk has it's own opiate-mimicking peptides that could block the receptors. Of course if you ingest enough of anything quite a bit will get through regardless. I've taken lots of different kinds of prescription medication that became less efficient, especially certain types of antibiotics, as two of the links mention. Milk interferes with the abosorbtion of iron, along with quite a bit of other things.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1941406409335481

My friend and I had both drank about a litre of chocolate milk roughly an hour before taking the MAL and both of us felt no effects from the MAL after about 2 hours

Time to get back on topic. I noticed @username_required drank a liter of choco milk. That is a lot of milk, probably too much. I was reading trip reports and one poster taking MAL mentioned drinking a little milk or some ginger to settle their stomach and prevent nausea. A sip or small glass is one thing. A liter is a lot.

I notice a lot of mentions of nausea and bodily aches. I can't say I'm an expert but I've had mescaline a few times and it was fantatsic. No nausea at all. It seemed very pure, clean, and smooth. My fellow trippers felt the same way. He had a small meal an hour or two earlier than had quite a few munchie snacks that were wonderful while we were tripping. I had tightness and pain in my legs but I climbed 3k up a mountain that was quite steep. My legs already are in rough shape so I can't complain, they're holding up.

It seems I need to be cautious with MAL. The reports of increased nausea, vassocontriction, and the potential for a crash make it seem more like an MDMA ally than a mescaline analog. Questioning if I need to try it when there's so much other wonderful stuff. On the other hand if it captures 1/4 of he magic of mescaline it would be worth it. Phenethylamines seem to be wonderful stuff, just as fine as tryptamines but it seems caution and respect are part of the deal.

Then there is ALLY. I am cautious of both of them for their body loads but it seems ALLY has a greater load for less payoff. I understand a lot depends on the individual. I feel very lucky to be in a time and place where there are wonderful things I'd always considered rare. It seems possible the rest of them may seem superfluous after the magic of mescaline.

 

[Pfafffed]

I notice a lot of mentions of nausea and bodily aches. I can't say I'm an expert but I've had mescaline a few times and it was fantatsic. No nausea at all. It seemed very pure, clean, and smooth.

You're quite lucky. Mescaline is famously nausea inducing, especially when it's pure.

I agree with you about MAL feeling questionable in the body. It's got a great safety record, but the MDMA-adjacent comparison does jive with how it feels in my body. It's not healthy-feeling in the way that mescaline is, although it does give me a lovely afterglow

 

[username_required]

Time to get back on topic. I noticed @username_required drank a liter of choco milk. That is a lot of milk, probably too much. I was reading trip reports and one poster taking MAL mentioned drinking a little milk or some ginger to settle their stomach and prevent nausea. A sip or small glass is one thing. A liter is a lot.

I was reading PiHKAL somewhat recently, and in the chapter where Ann has her first experience with Mescaline the doctor that is trip-sitting her tells her not to eat anything high in fat because it will slow the absorption. Based on that i’m fairly certain the reason for my milk experience has to due with the MAL dissolving into the fat into the milk and substantially slowing the onset and reducing the peak intensity.