I would cross that bridge when you come to it. Try heat, water, and time. I don't know how long you left the cactus to soak, but I usually leave it in basic water for about 24 hours before I add solvent. I reckon it'll sort itself out.
☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Mescaline Extraction thread
- Thread starter lilshoin.
- Start date
teh1buck
Bluelighter
It was only about 12 hours from the time I allowed it to soak to the time I posted the picture. I just got home, added more NaOH, am soaking the jars in hot water, and have already noticed a much better separation between the xylene and basic water. A large majority of the plant matter is now settling to the bottom also after only an hour. I'll give it a while longer, but if some of the plant matter remains on top, I may just add more NaOH since it's seems to help thus far and continue warming.
Thanks for the help
Thanks for the help
teh1buck
Bluelighter
adding more base and heating definitely helped .. a ton, actually, so thanks for the suggestion. all the jars are separating out nicely now
but the turkey baster i was using just ruptured, so having to do another hardware pick up![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
but the turkey baster i was using just ruptured, so having to do another hardware pick up
teh1buck
Bluelighter
friend actually just called me from the store and found a ginormous syringe and a baster, he's getting both just in case
PepperSocks
Bluelight Crew
If you can't get them to settle out right, take the top layer (xylene and plant matter) and pass this through a filter. The alkaloid laden xylene will pass through, leaving you with a basic (likely alkaloid containing), filter cake of plant material. Leave the plant material in the filter and pass fresh xylene through it, stripping it of alkaloids, adding to your organic wash.
At that point I would chuck the plant-matter filter cake. If you want to increase yield, do another organic wash on the basic aqueous phase (with the sunken plant matter). Combine organic phases, evaporate to residue, alcohol recrystallization for increased purity.
Thanks for posting this, I'm likely going to be doing a project along these lines soon. I'll be sure to extract in acidic water, filter to remove solids, organic wash to remove fats, basify, organic wash for alkaloids.
Sometimes skipping steps and cutting corners just screws you over.
At that point I would chuck the plant-matter filter cake. If you want to increase yield, do another organic wash on the basic aqueous phase (with the sunken plant matter). Combine organic phases, evaporate to residue, alcohol recrystallization for increased purity.
Thanks for posting this, I'm likely going to be doing a project along these lines soon. I'll be sure to extract in acidic water, filter to remove solids, organic wash to remove fats, basify, organic wash for alkaloids.
Sometimes skipping steps and cutting corners just screws you over.
PepperSocks
Bluelight Crew
Bah, I'm considering going through the hoops for a separatory funnel; such a useful tool that is very hard to find an adequate home-made replacement for.
sn23
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 239
Hm, evaporating xylene isn't that much fun without adequate vacuum. Plus he would end with freebase mescaline, therefore boiling the xylene away at atmospheric pressure seems suboptimal to me (evaporation/degradation of mescaline is perhaps possible; waste of solvent and fire hazard are certainly to be considered).
This perhaps comes a bit late but don't forget to open the jars before heating. They could explode otherwise.
PepperSocks, have you considered doing a STB technique with calcium hydroxide? Seems like less work with okay yields.
This perhaps comes a bit late but don't forget to open the jars before heating. They could explode otherwise.
PepperSocks, have you considered doing a STB technique with calcium hydroxide? Seems like less work with okay yields.
Yeah sep funnel is definitely the way forward for A/B, but no good for STB, that cactus and mucilage porridge isn't going to be easy to pour out through a stopcock, plus a funnel is too expensive and fancy for most people. sn23, the mescaline/xylene is acidified to (ideally) give xylene + mescaline salt in aqueous solution.
sn23
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
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- 239
Yeah sure it's reextracted into acidic water instead of evapping xylene! I was commenting on why PS's advise wouldn't work out well. Thanks for clarifying / pointing out
teh1buck
Bluelighter
What's the best way to evaporate off the acid water containing alkaloids at the end of most teks? I know spreading the water out, say on a baking sheet, is ideal, but what about heating it slightly? will this decrease yields of mescaline salt?
IME no, and theres no reason i can think of why it would. Mescaline salts are pretty damn stable.
I usually put the liquid in a glass pyrex 13" pie dish and evap on low on a glass top electric range on low. Pull it off before its all the way evaporated, and let it cool down as the last bit evaporates. Pop it in the oven @ 200F for 30 min then scrape away.
^^ True.
I usually use an excess of hcl so i end up washing with acetone and either ethanol or water recrystallizing, since it usually a bit dirty. If your salting water is already evaporating clean, best to let it evap slowly. Then again, the mescaline usually doesn't crystallize out until most of the water has evaporated anyway. So a bit of heat assisted pre-evap can speed up the process and still get you nice crystals as long as you let it cool before letting the last bit of water evaporate.
I usually use an excess of hcl so i end up washing with acetone and either ethanol or water recrystallizing, since it usually a bit dirty. If your salting water is already evaporating clean, best to let it evap slowly. Then again, the mescaline usually doesn't crystallize out until most of the water has evaporated anyway. So a bit of heat assisted pre-evap can speed up the process and still get you nice crystals as long as you let it cool before letting the last bit of water evaporate.
Om3n420
Bluelighter
Hey I plan on making a tea or doing an alcohol extraction of T. Bridgesii (1-2 12 inch cuttings) within the next few weeks, this will be my first time experimenting with mescaline and I have some questions about dosage and about the nausea associated with mescaline. When you make a tea is it solely the taste of the tea that makes you nauseous or is it the consistency and plant matter? Also is the taste comparable to kratom at all? I can down that stuff with ease.
Is the nausea significantly reduced with the alcohol extraction? I have seen some people say its worse but that doesn't really seem to make much sense. Would taking the doses over a longer period of time help at all? Any other help and tips would be great, I probably need it. I have been doing a lot of reading on it the last few weeks but could always use more. Is it likely is it to get a low yielding T. Bridgesii? I have read reports of low yielding cacti but I haven't seen one for T. Bridgesii.
Is the nausea significantly reduced with the alcohol extraction? I have seen some people say its worse but that doesn't really seem to make much sense. Would taking the doses over a longer period of time help at all? Any other help and tips would be great, I probably need it. I have been doing a lot of reading on it the last few weeks but could always use more. Is it likely is it to get a low yielding T. Bridgesii? I have read reports of low yielding cacti but I haven't seen one for T. Bridgesii.
YaDang
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
- Messages
- 14
^The taste is just the worst part. I can hold the tea down, but not completely without issue. There is definitely gastrointestinal discomfort as you feel the juice slipping around your insides.
anyone do the limonene tek have any success purifying a messy product? do not have access to MEK. what are some other options?
anyone do the limonene tek have any success purifying a messy product? do not have access to MEK. what are some other options?
babylonboy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
- Messages
- 1,410
Just typed this out in another thread, thought I might as well post it here now I've written it
Make cactus as fine as possible. Combine cactus with water, like 2 litres of water for every kilo or so, I guess, and cook down until it stops being slimy, goes thin.
Transfer to glass container. Add as much NaOH as there is cactus, by weight. Add some more. Leave for a while.
Add enough xylene to form like an inch layer in the top of the glass. Mix it in and let it separate. If it doesn't separate, forms an emulsion, or a gloopy porridge, you can solve this problem with heat, base, and time. You can NEVER add too much NaOH. If in doubt, more lye.
When it does separate, and you're happy it's been in there long enough to soak up all the mescaline it will, suck the xylene (the top layer) out with a glass gas syringe (easily bought online). Transfer it to a small jar, like a jam jar or something, that you have a tight fitting lid for.
Add some hydrochloric acid, I use 37% conc. diluted a bit, it doesn't matter that much, any excess will evaporate.
Cap it, shake it up really well. It will separate into two layers. Stick it in the freezer.
When the water layer has frozen, take the jar out, and as quickly as you can, pour the xylene out, back into your cactus/water/lye mixture.
Rinse the ice in the jar with a little bit of ice cold water to get all the xylene, pour this into the cactus mix too.
When the ice melts, pour the water into a big flat dish to evaporate. When it does, it will leave behind a residue of crystalline powder. This is mescaline hydrochloride.
Repeat the steps with adding the xylene, mixing it up, pulling it out, adding the acid, freezing it, and pouring the xylene back in until you stop getting worthwhile amounts of mescaline from evaporating the water.
You're done. The cactus mixture can go down the drain. The solvent, try to save and reuse, it's bad for the environment, but it's probably going to end up there, either by being poured away or allowed to evaporate. Try to avoid this as much as possible. If you want to purify your mescaline, you can use dry acetone (add Epsom salts you've baked to acetone bottle to dry it) and rinse it in a coffee filter. I never found this necessary.
Safety points:
ALWAYS wear goggles when working with acid or base. They will BLIND YOU FOREVER if you are not careful. I once had a very basic mixture splash all over my face. It covered the goggles I was wearing. If I hadn't been wearing them, I'd be blind for sure, probably in prison too.
NEVER add water to acid or base. This forms a dangerously concentrated solution. Always Add Acid.
ALWAYS have a big jug of white vinegar on hand to neutralise lye spills.
DON'T fucking smoke around solvents, you fucking idiot. Work in a ventilated area. Xylene is flammable. Acetone is really flammable.
NEVER use aluminium, check to make sure everything you use is resistant to being eaten by solvents/acids/bases you are using.
Notes:
You'll notice this is not a precise tek but a general method. I think that teks encourage people to do things they don't really understand, and make things sound harder than they are. What you are doing is not difficult. You have freebase mescaline. You are dissolving it in a solvent it goes into. You are then turning it into a salt. This means it no longer goes into that first solvent, but into water instead. You are then separating the two layers, and evaporating the water, leaving the mescaline salt behind. This is not hard to grasp. Grasp it.
This will work with many different kinds of acids, bases and solvents. I happen to use hydrochloric acid, NaOH, and xylene. You can use others.
You can never have enough base. Heat, base and time will solve all your problems.
The hardest part of this is the technique with the syringe. Master this, and you have mastered mescaline extraction. It is much more important to have solvent without any water/cactus/lye mixture than it is to get all the solvent.
Questions?
Make cactus as fine as possible. Combine cactus with water, like 2 litres of water for every kilo or so, I guess, and cook down until it stops being slimy, goes thin.
Transfer to glass container. Add as much NaOH as there is cactus, by weight. Add some more. Leave for a while.
Add enough xylene to form like an inch layer in the top of the glass. Mix it in and let it separate. If it doesn't separate, forms an emulsion, or a gloopy porridge, you can solve this problem with heat, base, and time. You can NEVER add too much NaOH. If in doubt, more lye.
When it does separate, and you're happy it's been in there long enough to soak up all the mescaline it will, suck the xylene (the top layer) out with a glass gas syringe (easily bought online). Transfer it to a small jar, like a jam jar or something, that you have a tight fitting lid for.
Add some hydrochloric acid, I use 37% conc. diluted a bit, it doesn't matter that much, any excess will evaporate.
Cap it, shake it up really well. It will separate into two layers. Stick it in the freezer.
When the water layer has frozen, take the jar out, and as quickly as you can, pour the xylene out, back into your cactus/water/lye mixture.
Rinse the ice in the jar with a little bit of ice cold water to get all the xylene, pour this into the cactus mix too.
When the ice melts, pour the water into a big flat dish to evaporate. When it does, it will leave behind a residue of crystalline powder. This is mescaline hydrochloride.
Repeat the steps with adding the xylene, mixing it up, pulling it out, adding the acid, freezing it, and pouring the xylene back in until you stop getting worthwhile amounts of mescaline from evaporating the water.
You're done. The cactus mixture can go down the drain. The solvent, try to save and reuse, it's bad for the environment, but it's probably going to end up there, either by being poured away or allowed to evaporate. Try to avoid this as much as possible. If you want to purify your mescaline, you can use dry acetone (add Epsom salts you've baked to acetone bottle to dry it) and rinse it in a coffee filter. I never found this necessary.
Safety points:
ALWAYS wear goggles when working with acid or base. They will BLIND YOU FOREVER if you are not careful. I once had a very basic mixture splash all over my face. It covered the goggles I was wearing. If I hadn't been wearing them, I'd be blind for sure, probably in prison too.
NEVER add water to acid or base. This forms a dangerously concentrated solution. Always Add Acid.
ALWAYS have a big jug of white vinegar on hand to neutralise lye spills.
DON'T fucking smoke around solvents, you fucking idiot. Work in a ventilated area. Xylene is flammable. Acetone is really flammable.
NEVER use aluminium, check to make sure everything you use is resistant to being eaten by solvents/acids/bases you are using.
Notes:
You'll notice this is not a precise tek but a general method. I think that teks encourage people to do things they don't really understand, and make things sound harder than they are. What you are doing is not difficult. You have freebase mescaline. You are dissolving it in a solvent it goes into. You are then turning it into a salt. This means it no longer goes into that first solvent, but into water instead. You are then separating the two layers, and evaporating the water, leaving the mescaline salt behind. This is not hard to grasp. Grasp it.
This will work with many different kinds of acids, bases and solvents. I happen to use hydrochloric acid, NaOH, and xylene. You can use others.
You can never have enough base. Heat, base and time will solve all your problems.
The hardest part of this is the technique with the syringe. Master this, and you have mastered mescaline extraction. It is much more important to have solvent without any water/cactus/lye mixture than it is to get all the solvent.
Questions?
Last edited:
Thanks a lot, might also mention that xylene is not the friendliest and is (borderline) carcinogenic like benzene. So alternative solvents would be of value, or as a consolation prize: reminding our fellow psychedeliciteers to completely evacuate all solvents by proper and lot drying. I mean really make a point out of it. Apply air currents, apply partial vacuum. I don't care recrystallize your product if you must. Aliphatic solvents are already pretty dubious but don't ingest aromatic solvents.