The Big & Dandy Medication/Supplement Interaction Thread

[anafagodma]

The Big and Dandy Psychotropic Medications and Supplements Interaction Thread

[IF YOU EVER TOOK SSRI's TOGETHER WITH LSD PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO TAKE THIS POLL]

Subthreads:

• Tricyclics & Psychedelics
• DXM

This is a place to discuss interactions between psychotropic medications (pharmaceuticals such as anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, benzodiazepines, stimulants, et cetera), supplements (piracetam, hydergine, etc.) and psychedelic drugs. We will mostly be dealing with drugs that YOU are prescribed by a doctor and take on a regular basis, not so much with other drugs that you may take for fun . Since we get posts about "can I take anti-depressant 'X' with psychedelic 'Y'" on a near-daily basis, this Big & Dandy thread has been created as a place to keep information on these subjects readily available.

Of interest, fairly complete, if a little outdated, check here first:

Antidepressants and Recreational Drugs FAQ
​

Generally speaking, with regards to "classical" 5-HT2 psychedelics (LSD, mushrooms, etc.) --

• SSRI's - generally decrease effects; dangerous with DXM and some others
• Wellbutrin - little or no side effects noted; possibly dangerous with DXM
• MAOI's - controversial; dangerous with DXM and some others; tread extremely carefully
• Anti-psychotics - generally decrease effects, not in a pleasant way
• Benzodiazepines - "soften" effects, reduce anxiety

Please, in the interests of harm reduction DO YOUR RESEARCH before dosing ... that means check this thread, check Erowid, check the FAQ linked above. Some of these combinations are dangerous. Some will drastically potentiate the trip and change it's character. Some will kill the trip and make it not worth your time or money in the first place. It all depends on the drugs you are taking, your own chemistry, and the psychedelic in question.

Also, please check these resources, and use the search engine, *BEFORE* posting. We get these questions on nearly a daily basis!

Thank you all!
--SomeKindaLove




Starting way back on 9/3/2004 ...

Preface: TFSE sucks and wouldn't handle the phrase 5-meo-amt anyway. I've read and researched widely on this, including the all inclusive 5-meo-amt thread here. Help a kid out. I just wanna know whether I should start being dissappointed now, or wait until Friday when we are supposed to take it and I find out it doesn't work.

Obviously IAP can't be used by anyone on an anti-depressant that has a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, but what about some of the others?

I am having a hard time finding conclusive researchon this.

As I understand it, the TC combos don't work.

What about 5-MEOs?

I have some 5-MEO-AMT and I'm really looking forward to checking it out.

But I am on bupropion, venlafaxine, and topirimate (Welbutrin, Effexor, Topomax)

Will it work? Would a slightly higher dose (say 10mgs instead of 5) make it work?

Or am I stuck with this whacky wierd RC that will be making excellent birthday and holiday presents for the next year or so?

 

[ingo_2001]

phenethylamines (2c'S, MDMA, IAP, METHYLONE, etc.)and most tryptamines (5-MEO'S, 4-aco'S, etc) are fine with SSRI's, the effects are slightly reduced and depends how selective the SSRI is your on Lexapro is the mose selective and the least likely to reduce the effects. However all SSRI's cause you a general tolerance as they cause your receptors to down-grade.

WHAT EVER YOU DO DO NOT TAKE MAOI'S (HARMALINE)

5-MEO-AMT and AMT have slight MAOI effects due to the alpha methyl and I would avoid or start with a very low dose!!!

btw I don't think any of the meds you have listed are true SSRI's I'm sure wellbrutin is a selective adrenaline re-uptake inhibtor as well... Why are you on three meds as well? I don't know what Topomax is. Maybe you shouldn't be doing any more drugs than already prescribed??!!

 

[anafagodma]

there is SO much wrong with your post i don't even know where to start.

Well, start. Cause sarcasm isn't helping me at ALL.

For those of you have no idea (and it seems maybe some don't?) 5-MeO-AMT is very different from AMT. 5-MeO-AMT is more powerful drug and, while I appreciate your support, psychedelic, 50mg of 5-MeO would probably kill you, or do other serious damage. 50mg is more in the range of the dosage for plain AMT.

5-MeO lasts ~24 hours. Regular ~AMT lasts 12.

The recommended starter dosage for 5-Meo-AMT is around 3-6mg, but it has plateaus, just like DXM. That would be plateau one.

The problem with adding to my dosage if I need more is that this drug takes quite awhile to kick in. In addition, I have a history of taking even longer to feel the effects of drugs than the normal range of onset--both as set forth in the PDR and in comparison with friends partying together on the same substance.

I've done acid while on Zoloft and Neurontin.
I know that a person on 50mg or less of Zoloft can, in fact, experience a weak roll.
I know that AMTs, etc. cannot be taken by those on monoamine oxidase inhibitors. I am not on any such anti depressant.


Let me emphasize: I've done a LOT of research. But the answer to my question is not out there yet. Is it possible to trip on 5-Meo-AMT while on Welbutrin and Effexor?

If you have the experience or some answers for me, please, share.

But if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

 

[Blowmonkey]

I don't have anything nice to say, but I do like to correct you on some things..

For those of you have no idea (and it seems maybe some don't?) 5-MeO-AMT is very different from AMT. 5-MeO-AMT is more powerful drug and, while I appreciate your support, psychedelic, 50mg of 5-MeO would probably kill you, or do other serious damage. 50mg is more in the range of the dosage for plain AMT.

5-MeO lasts ~24 hours. Regular ~AMT lasts 12.

You start out good, but AMT is in no way less stronger.. Can be every bit as powerful. 5-MeO-AMT is more potent, that's all.

Second, I think you got those durations mixed up.. While 5-MeO-AMT lasts long, it doesn't last nearly as long as AMT, at least not in all of my experiences (and those of my friends). AMT can last up to 15 hours, easily.. The 5-MeO lasts about 4 hours shorter.

I know that AMTs, etc. cannot be taken by those on monoamine oxidase inhibitors. I am not on any such anti depressant.

Also SSRI's.

 

[leungkachong]

Is there citation showing that the alpha-methylation has a correlation with increased MAO inhibition? I don't refute that claim, and it appears to make slight sense (the ethylamine to isopropylamine in a sense may slow down MAO's work on it), but I've never seen anything to back this up.

Saying AMT and 5-MeO-AMT are slight MAOIs is true. BUT THEN AGAIN, so is essentially ANY tryptamine or phenethylamine. Why? Because they are broken down by monoamine oxidase, and they (in laymen's terms) "tie up" the MAO enzymes in the process. I can tell you (only through hearsay however) that AMT was not able to cause enough MAO inhibition to make DMT orally active! So can anyone provide a PROPER ARTICLE OR STUDY providing empirical evidence that AMT or 5-MeO-AMT has any significant or appreciable inhibition?

 

[kinetic]

i used to be on paxil (SSRI) noticeable decrease in effects of everything. it was pretty much pointless to do anything, welbutrin on the other hand had no apparent effects on the trips.

 

[nada rylnym]

Re: RC's and anti-depressants?

Preface: TFSE sucks and wouldn't handle the phrase 5-meo-amt anyway. I've read and researched widely on this, including the all inclusive 5-meo-amt thread here. Help a kid out. I just wanna know whether I should start being dissappointed now, or wait until Friday when we are supposed to take it and I find out it doesn't work.

Obviously IAP can't be used by anyone on an anti-depressant that has a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, but what about some of the others?

I am having a hard time finding conclusive researchon this.

As I understand it, the TC combos don't work.

What about 5-MEOs?

I have some 5-MEO-AMT and I'm really looking forward to checking it out.

But I am on bupropion, venlafaxine, and topirimate (Welbutrin, Effexor, Topomax)

Will it work? Would a slightly higher dose (say 10mgs instead of 5) make it work?

Or am I stuck with this whacky wierd RC that will be making excellent birthday and holiday presents for the next year or so?

first off the bupropion alone is enough to make me think twice about ingesting a research chemical. but, add to that the SNRI which is known to cause restlessness and insomnia. on top of that add something to help reduce the chance that the bupropion and the effexor have been known to cause seizure, the topomax. nice mix. now add to that a research chemical which is very potent, has put people in the hospital and is known to potent down to the milligram level. thats crazy. do whatever you want to your brain, but i personally wouldn't do it.

you are having a hard time finding conclusive research on this because there isn't any. you go be the human lab rat and let us all know.

what is a TC combo?

what do you mean by the '5-MEOs'? that's not a class of drug you know.. its not like the SSRIs, the MAOIs and the 5-MEOs or anything like that..

the idea of giving potent research chemicals as 'whacky wierd RC that will be making excellent birthday and holiday presents' is just stupid. i hope you were joking.

i don't know how you aquired the 5-meo-AMT , but if you bought something and didn't do you homework first then shame on you. if not, and it just fell from the sky into your lap then perhaps you should give it to away or toss it in the trash.

you are on a mix of anti-depressants that indicate you might have some issues. people with mental issues should stay away from psychedelics in general, just my opinion.

 

[anafagodma]

Wow, I'm glad that I don't have to refer to this board very often.

^nada rylnym
Millions of Americans are on anti-depressants. And I doubt there's more than a handful of people on this board that don't "mental issues. Hell, if the internet had been around when I was a teenager I probably would have been a BL regular myself, slinging shit at people without having the faintest idea what I was talking about. Perhaps you don't live in the US, thank your luck lucky fucking stars if it's true.

They put women on prozac one a month for PMS. Should they not be doing drugs?

I don't think you know what you're talking about. It took you days to come up with a reply an it was subpar and insulting at best and more ill-informed than rx-list at best.

on top of that add something to help reduce the chance that the bupropion and the effexor have been known to cause seizure, the topomax[/quote. . .] I see what your problem here is. You don't have the ability to read and process information. YES, SANTA CLAUS, I'M ON AN ANTI-EPILEPTIC.

You've never taken St Johns Wort? 5-HTP? Amino-Acids? Smart Drugs? Calcium Magnesium Pills? Melatonin?



^^
I have an extensive knowledge of pharmacology and a degree in philogogy. Unfortunately, blowmonkey, that's where you made your mistake in arguing with me.
Potency, virility, strength--these are all words you will find a synonyms for strgnth. No pharmacologist would argue with me that misutilized the term "strength" comparing 5-mea-amt with Amt. If you have to take 3mg of 5-meo-amt to get of and 50mg of AMT to get off, then 5-meo-amt is "stronger" than AMT, milligram gor milligram. If you disagree with me, perhaps you should look up the oragnization called "Famillies Against Manditory Minimums."

^^^But I'm not done with Nada nie zna. Why do you have 700 times as many posts as I do when you've been here half as long? Have you been dosing out judgemental, bullshit advice to every post you can hop on as soon as you can get there? I have less than 200 posts because I only responds to questions I know the answers to. You just sling shit and when your stomach is empty you go digging up paddies.

BTW, I most certainly do intend to include samples of this in the birthday card of forewarned friends. Along with other things. See, I'm not a water-tight frog's asshole. I'm a dead. I like to share.

I actually wrote a PM to the first personal who answered this post in an intelligent way. Thanking him for his humanity.


FYI, 5-MEO-AMT can be taken and enjoyed safely by those on bupropion, venlafaxine, topirimate, and/or OCPs. This is true of ALL tryptamines. But do your own research, obviously, before venturing into any of them.


Now please just fuck off.

 

[nada rylnym]

Wow, I'm glad that I don't have to refer to this board very often.

Now please just fuck off.

nice.

sorry you didn't like what i had to offer, but we are all entitled to our opinions. i was just stating mine.

i know you are all smart and all with your extensive knowledge of pharmacology and a degree in philogogy, but your math sucks. 700 times as many posts in half the time? heh.

i wasn't trying to attack you personally. its a shame to had to come out with fists flying in such a rage ending the possibility of reasonable discourse. maybe you need to adjust your meds, you seem a little aggressive.

have a nice trip.

 

[Blowmonkey]

I have an extensive knowledge of pharmacology and a degree in philogogy. Unfortunately, blowmonkey, that's where you made your mistake in arguing with me.

Well good for your extensive knowledge. But arguing..? I haven't made a mistake, sorry.

If you disagree with me, perhaps you should look up the oragnization called "Famillies Against Manditory Minimums."

Very well, I will.. Still, it all depends on how you look at it. You said it like this; "5-MeO-AMT is more powerful drug and.." When I thought; "Hell no, AMT can be every bit as powerful as 5-MeO-AMT, qua experience."

BTW, I most certainly do intend to include samples of this in the birthday card of forewarned friends. Along with other things. See, I'm not a water-tight frog's asshole. I'm a dead. I like to share.

Heh, let the whole world know..

FYI, 5-MEO-AMT can be taken and enjoyed safely by those on bupropion, venlafaxine, topirimate, and/or OCPs. This is true of ALL tryptamines. But do your own research, obviously, before venturing into any of them.

That, "do your own research" seems a bit odd.. It was you asking if it were possible in the first place.

 

[anafagodma]

nada rylnym said

there is SO much wrong with your post i don't even know where to start.

blowmonkey said

you are having a hard time finding conclusive research on this because there isn't any.You're

i said

FYI, 5-MEO-AMT can be taken and enjoyed safely by those on bupropion, venlafaxine, topirimate, and/or OCPs. This is true of ALL tryptamines. But do your own research, obviously, before venturing into any of them.

Obviously, I found some answers. One or two people on this board have bothered to educate themselves in this matter. I'm sure there are more who are interested, but are afraid to ask. I am sure their are more answers out there, but I'm actually more interested in pharmaceuticals.

And here I'm going to have to correct you where you went really, really wrong, Blowmonkey 5-meo-amt last 22-24 hours.

And this gem. . .

That, "do your own research" seems a bit odd.. It was you asking if it were possible in the first place.

Yes. Do your own research. Find out whether your own meds will supersize, diminish slightly, or totally kill the effects. . . or kill you. Research the dosage. Research trip reports on erowid.

What's odd isn't that I told people to do their own research--I have been doing that ever since I started this--. Isn't posting a question on a "Harm Reduction" board, shifting through experiences on any number of any other boards and talking with friends who have used the RC, reading BL's "Big and Dandy 5-MEO-AMT THread"? research? But that is personal research and it won't be enough for someone who is in a different mindset than me. What I have read will only represent the tip of the iceberg a few months from now. Further, different medications react (albeit slightly) in different ways to 5-MEO-AMT.

No what's odd isn't that I told people to do their own research, your mileage may vary, etc. . . .etc. What's odd is that I'm usually compelled to sign off "take care."


BTW, it was a great trip.

 

[Blowmonkey]

And here I'm going to have to correct you where you went really, really wrong, Blowmonkey 5-meo-amt last 22-24 hours.

(Sure, and AMT lasts 12 hours.. 8()

I think you are referring to Erowid durations:

Onset : 30 - 90 minutes
Duration : 8 - 9 hours
Normal After Effects : up to 12 hours

Now together this makes ~24 hours, I agree. But after effects aren't taken into account. After effects can linger for a long while, I've had it myself as well, but I wasn't tripping anymore. If you were tripping for 24 hours straight, then it's either due to different brain chemistry or different compounds..

And chill out anafagodma.

 

[jonah_222]

Re: Re: RC's and anti-depressants?

people with mental issues should stay away from psychedelics in general, just my opinion.

speaking from experience anafagodma, this is a good rule of thumb.

maybe you'll be lucky and never have to go through that kind of shit, but it does happen. you're playing russian roullette with your brain, man. The seat of everything you are, all your memories, what might as well be your soul. At least consider the people who might love you before jumping in headfirst into craziness like mixing raw biochemicals with a myriad of medication.

Good luck, and all that.

-j.

 

[kinetic]

i agree that those with depression problems should stay away from psychedelics. I was into them very heavily for a while, and then suddenly realized I should stop. It wasn't until two years later that I actually felt both mature enough and mentally stable enough to start tripping again, and I'm very glad that I did take a break.

 

[Mugz]

prozac an 2CI

hi, i have just been prescribed prozac for depression and i started today, but i am having a few people over and we r gonna do some of my 2CI, will the prozac effect the 2ci much or at all,
sorry i kno i have seen the answer to this before but i cant remember what it is and i cant find the thread that its in so no flaming please

 

[X. Torris]

Try to search for "prozac" in the Psychedelic Drugs fourm.

 

[StagnantReaction]

It will most likely just decrease the effects, considering prozac is an SSRI and that's how SSRIs generally behave towards psychedelics.

 

[Pander Bear]

The recreational drugs and anti-depressants FAQ

Hallucinogens (LSD/Acid, psilocybin/Shrooms, Tryptamines, 2-ct-2,DPT, DMT etc, Salvia): These drugs can be safely combined with the SSRIs. Most people report that they need to take MORE of a hallucinogen to get normal effects. Thus, if you are taking an SSRI, you will probably need more of the drug to reach threshold effects. Some people find that they need to take more LSD, but that shrooms affect them normally. So be careful to start at a normal dose and only take more if you find that you need to.

I found that in the PD sub-index in under a minute.

 

[stefan]

im not incredibly familiar with prozac, but i am on the zoloft (also an ssri). i know with zoloft, it takes a few weeks in order to notice an effect from the medication. i am assuming that all ssri's work similiarly as far as reaching their full potential. this leads me to believe that since you have not been on the prozac for an extended period of time it would effect your 2c-i trip less. however im merely hypothesizing.

 

[OwnerofU]

Ssri + Lsd

Im wondering if the SSRI Effexxor would have any complications if you were to mix with 1 or 2 hits or lsd?