The Big & Dandy MDAI Thread

[nonbeliever]

It seems to me that the major dangers regarding toxicity of 'these' compounds are serotonin and dopamine - neurotoxicity (not an issue here) and then the metabolites - some nasty ones from mephadrone n even gd old mdma.
Would anyone like to hazard guess about the metabolites of this one?
My thoughts so far - its shouldn't cause cancer as it is sufficiently polar.... n thats it....
I'm rubbish at pharmacology but thanx to Wikipedia and the wonderful people here i am learning slowly

 

[DMTime_warp]

I just realized that it's not the combo of dopamine release with serotonin that is neurotoxic but rather neurotoxicity is specific to a molecule. The proof of this is in Naphthylaminopropane. Which is a non-neurotoxic SNDRA. Which brings me to my second train of thought, could it possibly be a valid competitor to MDxx family?

There is even more proof because amphetamine itself is somewhat neurotoxic, yet NAP isn't.

 

[Sturnam]

I just realized that it's not the combo of dopamine release with serotonin that is neurotoxic but rather neurotoxicity is specific to a molecule. The proof of this is in Naphthylaminopropane. Which is a non-neurotoxic SNDRA. Which brings me to my second train of thought, could it possibly be a valid competitor to MDxx family?

There is even more proof because amphetamine itself is somewhat neurotoxic, yet NAP isn't.

Release of serotonin and dopamine actually is neurotoxic, as ironically, your example of amphetamine shows. Amphetamine is pretty much non-neurotoxic, while methamphetamine, which is almost exactly the same yet is a stronger releaser of serotonin, is very neurotoxic.

The reason NAP isn't is possibly because it's very weak at releasing either serotonin, dopamine, or both. It seems like strong release of both is required. And just glancing at the wiki page makes it seem like it's a weak releaser of dopamine, as they note its weak stimulant properties.

 

[Prea]

Guys how long does it take to feel the effects of MDAI? 30minutes or so? And does it cause jaw-clenching?

 

[nonbeliever]

First time – excited and nervous like trying any new drug, the mixed reports on this have given me mixed feelings. Ate small meal 15 min ago, my monkey usually comes up quicker after eating before ingesting mdma. It’s the salt. fine tan powder. very similar to the 'tan color' on Wikipedia. Brought from popular online vendor, almost without a doubt the same place most people here got theirs.

20:10Approx 150mg MDAI taken orally.
20:17 Is monkey feeling something?
20:36 Yes – relaxed and energetic with slight pressure on head? Also hungry – not really eaten much all day, even though I just ate. Monkey decides to have a rollup (cig).
20:50 feeling relaxed and stimulated? Tiny bit of tingles
22:10 ~50mg booster feeling nice relaxed a watered down version of mdma sans the speed or intensity. Talking to other good, clear thoughts, emphatic, coherent. Feel horney. Heart rate up a fair bit.Some time after ~50mg booster feeling really good, CEV, hot n sweaty, bit of eye wiggles. Big pupils.
00:43 lights seem bright? Car headlights seemed very intense, but was outside at night so not sure if this was an effect of mdai or not.
Talk for a long time on phone call, very chatty n clear headed. Conversation flowed easily, was very disappointed when the other person had to go.
3:30 teeth clenching a bit am downish now. Need sleep as gotta get up early tomorrow
Walker around outside n all the lights seemed loads brighter than usual – car headlamps seemed incredibly intense. Ate some food around this time and that helped bring monkey down a bit.


Notes
Sleep was hard think monkey finally drifted off around 4.
Felt a bit crappy the next day but I did only get 4 hours sleep. Some neck pain, maybe slept in a funny position?
Had good realistic CEVs similar to higher doses of mdma – in bed monkey would shut his eyes n think he was standing somewhere or doing something else, no conversations with non existent people tho. Probably possible with higher doses.
Heart rate increased a fair bit each time monkey came up n then went back down to a bit faster than normal.
Basically a mild version of mdma, without the extreme euphoria – just a mood lift, chattiness, music was good tactile sensations much improved – with higher doses more x like effects appeared eye wiggles etc.
Was quite sedating at points with some nausea that went away when lying down curled up in a blanket. Other times monkey felt like walking around and being sociable. Probably would mix very nicely with a beer or two.
Doses were eyeballed…. Not good I know but were estimated to be on the high side.

Some jaw clenching but not much, more of a tightness at times. Monkey clenches his jaws very easily much more than most people so not sure if this applies to everyone.

hope this helps

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

^ please note that we do not SWIM here.

 

[any major dude]

which combo have you guys found to be more mdma like, MDAI & MDMCat, or MDAI & d-amph? anyone tried both?

 

[Alonely]

About to measure out ~110mg MDAI. I will be taking it orally and by itself on an empty stomach. A trip report will be written up as I am on it. I may be checking back here during the trip, at least reading if not posting. 127-lb female, have used 40mg 2C-C, 179mg bk-MDMA, and 2x 300mg DXM (for reference).

2:29 PM: taken. Tastes somewhat bitter and sour at the same time, very medicinal; light brown and almost looks like mashed oatmeal. Feeling a bit excited and nervous, as always, so my stomach is slightly jittery and full of light butterflies.

 

[Prea]

<some intimate disclosure>

That's a.....nice report you got there, haha

 

[info.trance]

And so it is this stuff is magical in it's own special way it's not e or MDMA it's MDAI having had a fair bit of exp with this now I respect it for being it's own chemical.

Important not and more pharmacologically minded people might be able to enlighten me on this but at the end of one night I took 180 mg weighted of mdai and found the next day and week actually very manageable . Had mdai earlier in the night with small amount of meph and butyl . Were talking 50mg doses of eachonly once in the night

 

[MrIbis]

umm, using 'my monkey, and "i" in the same paragraph defeats the purpose.

 

[nuke]

Release of serotonin and dopamine actually is neurotoxic, as ironically, your example of amphetamine shows. Amphetamine is pretty much non-neurotoxic, while methamphetamine, which is almost exactly the same yet is a stronger releaser of serotonin, is very neurotoxic.

It's probably interesting to note that amphetamine is also a dopaminergic neurotoxin (reversibility is disputed) in primates and that one study had found use of amphetamines to be associated with Parkinson's disease.

And just glancing at the wiki page makes it seem like it's a weak releaser of dopamine, as they note its weak stimulant properties.

Yeah, that's the thing, it doesn't elevate basal levels of dopamine to crazy amounts like methamphetamine (1400%), and so that's why you probably don't see any neurotoxicity.

 

[Alonely]

Okay, here's the full report. Mods, apologies if I should just post it in Trip Reports and simply put a link to it here. Change it or tell me if so.


12/3/09 2:29 PM = T
Dose: ~110mg orally (127-lb female, solo)
T+0:00 – Tastes bitter and sour at the same time, very medicinal. Almost immediately upon consuming, there is a tiny burning sensation in the middle esophagus and stomach.

T+0:11 – Feeling a little jittery in my stomach, probably more from the nerves than anything.

T+0:26 – Still feeling like I have butterflies. At this point it may actually be the onset rather than just nerves.

T+0:30 – Vision is blurring ever so slightly, just getting a little fuzzy, but noticeably. Mydriasis is beginning to kick in already.

T+0:33 – Everything is quiet inside my body. There’s a perpetual stillness with which I’m unfamiliar. My legs are getting tingly. Stomach is feeling heavier.

T+0:36 – Feeling a little dizzy. My vision is noticeably “unreal” and slightly warped. The stillness inside of me is fascinating, but I’m starting to feel nauseous. Strobing is beginning to take effect. My hearing is affected and dimmed.

T+0:38 – Comprehension of sentences is degrading bit by bit. Concentration is harder. Talking on IM about computers is starting to tax my memory; I find it harder to remember what was said in previous lines.

T+0:41 – Getting very excited. I’m starting to get the giggles and the lower half of my body feels heavier. Still feeling slightly nauseous, so I will continue to drink from my water bottle. Typing is slowly becoming more difficult and frequency of typos is increasing.

T+0:44 – My face is tingling. Still feel giggly. Just ate a Nilla Wafer and it tastes very sweet, almost like candy, though that may be unrelated. A bit disoriented. Walking becoming waddling and haphazard.

T+0:46 – My body feels so still. I am fascinated by this fact. I am concentrating on my breathing, for it is becoming very noticeable and…alive. Absolutely weightless when lying down: will explore the comfort of lying down further.

T+0:53 – I feel tingly all over and lying down feels excellent. On the phone right now with a friend. My fingers feel hot.

T+0:58 – Memory is quite weak. My body feels like it’s 200lbs [strange since it felt weightless moments before]. My fingers are tingly and my skin feels so smooth, so soft, and kind of warm, almost hot. It feels good to touch, skin on skin. I walk like a dizzy person. Breath must be rationed: for some reason I am breathing heavier even though talking doesn’t take much effort. I feel slightly removed from myself.

T+1:01 – Massaging my arms feels great. My friend says my speaking inhibitions have gone down. He says normally I am calm and collected in my speech and now I am slightly breathless. Pupils more dilated than before.

T+1:21 – Hunger has completely disappeared, as has thirst.

T+1:30 – Teeth chattering and jaw clenching accompanied by my mouth being dry. Ust went outside and took some pictures and it is absolutely phenomenally gorgeous. Eyes now fully dilated.

T+1:35 – My typing is terrible. Moving around vigorously, almost as if spasming, feels pleasant. So good. Light pain feels good. Disoriented. Memory has weakened more. Breathless, probably from jaw clenching closing off supply of air through mouth.

T+1:42 – Listening to ATB – The Summer. The sound is so gentle and dreamy. Obsessed with describing effects to my friend, haha.

T+1:47 – Vision is improving from its former, somewhat blurry and unfocused state. Read some of PiHKAL (page 260) to see how reading fared. Not well: memory is only decent when truly concentrating on and wrapping head around what’s going on in the book. Actual comprehension of words doesn’t seem to be as affected anymore. Seems to be plateauing, but it’s hard to tell. Would be able to talk to my mother over the phone and temporarily silence effects (would sound tired and at a loss of breath, though). Light is distracting and unwanted.

T+1:51 – Pupils very dilated. Touching feels soft and patient; would not desire to have sex with anyone but the most caring lover (gently and with no rough or rushed intentions). Sensual and sexual combined as opposed to 2C-C’s more robust sexual nature and methylone’s almost purely sensual nature. Would be fantastic to gaze deeply into a lover's eyes. Perfect for slow or tantric love with plenty of kissing, to the point of falling asleep against each other’s lips from being so absorbed in the absolute relaxation and peace.

T+1:58 – Feeling grateful for having my friends, especially to the one I’m talking to right now for writing down notes when I am most absorbed in the experience. I feel incredibly curious; enough to ask about what people really think of my physical appearance. However, there is not much self-consciousness associated with my physicality; not enough to be too hurt if anything negative was said about how I look. Odd and worth mentioning given that the feeling is curiosity combined with moderate (definitely more than mild) paranoia, especially given that anything anyone said about my mental faculties in a derogatory manner would put me in an instantly, childishly, dejectedly saddened state. No worries at all about time, which is very unlike me.

T+2:01 – Feeling extremely clear-headed. No true desire to indulge solely in thought as was common on past trips with other substances; instead, just a clarity of mind where I am at rest, patiently waiting for something, anything to happen; an “utter peace”. Excited to hear other’s thoughts on my state, but paranoia looms.

T+2:06 – ATB – Far Beyond is lovely on the ears. bodily sen sation is awesome. Would be awesopme for sensual sex, nothing casual or rushed. I can only feel the texture of my skin, no warmth, except for areas associated with sweating. Intense jaw clenching and tension.

T+2:10 – Urge to cuddle up with a lover is powerful. Such a bonding drug, though not nearly as strong as methylone in this regard. Coming down already and experience has been a plus-two, max. No desire to end trip. Feeling talkative, impatient (probably part of the irritation at and disappointment in the feeling that the trip is coming to a close), and physically clingy. I have been cuddling with my blankets and pillow all throughout. Reported by a friend to be more “coherent” for the past few minutes.

T+2:29 – The giggles and general feeling of childishness have not gone away yet. Feeling innocent and snuggly, and moving around and bouncing a lot. Worried about my teeth given the absence of magnesium this time to help with the jaw tension. Can remember lyrics to a very familiar song, but it’s more remembering motor movement of the lips than recalling actual words. ATB – What About Us is fun to bounce and sway to.

T+2:34 – Immense heat on back of knees from sweat, probably from moving around to the music. Jumping is fun but as taxing as it normally would be; ran around apartment in record time. Compared to DXM (which made it so standing up was just as restful as lying down and some feelings of invincibility were present), MDAI has realistic physical limits and doesn’t let those limits be forgotten. Drinking water feels good as my thirst is returning. The temperature of the water also feels cool and nice on my lips and tongue. Clearly coming down at this point, so trying to gather my last thoughts and ponder about what intellectual value this drug has. Definite desire to go with a higher dose next time; estimate around 145-160mg.

T+2:39 – Feeling rested, but wouldn’t be able to fall asleep for another few hours due to inert mental stimulation (hard to describe).

T+3:30 - Just felt a huge surge of depression. Was able to fight it off through thinking about pleasing, productive, stimulating activities, but the staunch, sudden depression is disturbing.



(Extended) Summary
No guilt for any reason during this trip, unlike previous trips on DXM where an unsettling amount of guilt was felt without there being a stimulus. Powerful jaw clenching and dry mouth. Constant breathlessness. The paranoia throughout these past hours has been annoying and uncomfortable and is one negative side effect worth mentioning, but wouldn’t prevent further trips. Prefer listening to quiet music or no music at all. Physical gait is like that of a dizzy person from the slight disorientation (legs feel like jelly and I could not see myself walking for more than a minute without falling or leaning on someone). Enjoyment of nature is there, but not as powerful as methylone; also in contrast to bk-MDMA is that MDAI is not a truth serum as much as a truth encourager, for lying would not produce as much guilt and self-derision as it would on methylone (keeping in mind that this is speaking in terms of 179mg bk-MDMA vs. 110mg MDAI). I’ve come to the conclusion that I prefer psychedelics over empathogens, for I crave the mental expansion and insight that these entactogens just don’t seem to provide me; however, they have their own uses and advantages. The dose of MDAI I took would be excellent to use to wind down from a long day. Some irritability the day after, but this fades quickly and is easy to ignore. I can see this being a nootropic if the dose were to be lowered. I feel like lying down a lot and generally not being very active in mind or body at all. This probably lends itself easily to the peace that overcame me; no distracting thoughts or movements, just pure contentment. Absence of hunger or thirst. Memory is definitely affected, but it is better described as being scatterbrained and unfocused than experiencing an actual weakening memory. Will not say much about MDAI's potential for being an antidepressant given the burst of depression at the very end; unsure how to interpret that. The self-consciousness about how one’s rational faculties are perceived is unpleasant and is the first effect to manifest itself as well as the last effect to fade.

 

[ysrh]

Thanks for the report. I'm tossing up whether to go wth MDAI or trusty old methylone and you've swung me a little (towards the latter)...

 

[MeDieViL]

Consumed a total off 420mg yesterday. Its definatly intense but i missed the dopamine, the high just didnt feel complete. It also was pretty sedating wich i didnt like that much as i wanted to listen music but only felt like lying down.

Overall not a bad substance, will definatly try this one with MDPV or ritalin in the future.

Feel a bit drained and down today, nothing too bad.

 

[ebola?]

redose compulsion?

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Very similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O.

You feel that there may be something (or, better, Nothing) just around the corner if only you just tried one more time.

At least, that was my experience.

It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome.

 

[MeDieViL]

^ Very similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O.

You feel that there may be something (or, better, Nothing) just around the corner if only you just tried one more time.

At least, that was my experience.

It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome.

Yeah, i just wanted to see wheter the effects can get better.:D Not really a compulsion like with meph.

 

[Thou]

^ Very similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O.

You feel that there may be something (or, better, Nothing) just around the corner if only you just tried one more time.

At least, that was my experience.

It is definitely not like others in its class *cough*meph*cough* where you have the Rat-Lever Syndrome.

That's an interesting choice for comparison.

Anyone who's known the profound sort of nothing/everything blissful awareness that comes at the peak of a nitrous experience knows what you speak of. What I find most compelling is not only that the comparison comes from an entactogen on the opposite end of the chemical class spectrum, but that there indeed exists another substance with a characteristic reminiscent of what, in my eyes, is a most peculiar and orginal drug experience (N20).

Consider my interests maxed out on this one.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Uh uh... don't get too excited

Please pay attention to my word choice: "similar in manner to redose compulsion for N2O".

Only the manner - not the same experience - not even remotely .

By all means, do check out MDAI, it is a truly unique substance - however, it is (as you noted) from the opposite end of the spectrum .