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The Big & Dandy HPPD Thread

i have some weird wood floor and some tile in my bathroom and when im too tired i start seing them move its more fun then anything else cause im not all mentally fuck up... like i was trippin and at night in the dark things seem blue sometime during daytime i can look at my body and it either seems blue or red... like on shrooms not liekk 100% blue just a lil and i can see millions of color dots everysecond of my life if i look in backgrounds... and the sky looks like paint.... ??? anyone else wanna share ;p
 
I need to show this thread to people that think it's cool to eat 10+ sheets of acid in a year.
 
Results from an online questionnaire which erowid made possible:
Abnormal visual experiences in individuals with histories of hallucinogen use: A web-based questionnaire.

Despite longstanding reports of prolonged or reoccurring perceptual changes in a subset of hallucinogen users, very little is known about Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder and related visual abnormalities in hallucinogen users. We used an online questionnaire to document the symptoms and relationship to drug use of unusual visual phenomena in hallucinogen users. 16,192 individuals viewed the information sheet and 2679 were included in the study. Of these, 224 reported having unrelated diagnoses associated with unusual visual experiences and were excluded from main analyses. Most (60.6%) of the remaining 2455 participants reported having experienced drug-free visual experiences that resembled hallucinogen effects. Probability of experiencing constant or near-constant symptoms was predicted by greater past exposure to specific hallucinogens, including lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD). Although symptoms were common, few (104, or 4.2% of the sample) found them distressing or impairing enough to consider seeking treatment. Visual changes in hallucinogen users may be more common than previously suspected and are worthy of further study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21035275

And some related reading from PD itself:
HPPD: Fact or fiction?
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=2812549#post2812549
2C-I and HPPD
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=1885540#post1885540
 
Results from an online questionnaire which erowid made possible:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21035275

And some related reading from PD itself:
HPPD: Fact or fiction?
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=2812549#post2812549
2C-I and HPPD
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?postid=1885540#post1885540

I remember that survey, and the way it was displayed on the website, and the first phrase that came into my head was "selection bias". Erowid visitors are a geeky subset of psychedelic users, and HPPDers (as we were once called) are typically obsessive and trawl the internet a lot for information in the beginning.

In my opinion, the scientists to watch for are Dr. David Kozin (who used to run hppdonline and is a self-taught but respected and published neuroscientist) and obviously Dr. Henry Abraham. NODID and HPPDonline both vanished at some point last year, leaving HPPDers with no forum of their own. Just before that, though, there was some good news, the details of which I will omit as I suspect they may have had something to do with why both websites lapsed. But I believe the science continues, and future treatments (don't hold your breath) will be based on anticonvulsants. Keppra + clonazepam shows promise, but the side effects are worse than HPPD for a lot of people.

(there's new forums at hppd.info (dead), the stormloader board (old), and http://thosewithvisualsnow.yuku.com/ (not really HPPD) as well as dpselfhelp (not really HPPD) - however, in my opinion, if you have HPPD, don't visit them. You need to forget about your condition before you start healing - read this once and then just get on with your life however you can)
 
Since I smoke weed all day daily I'm sure that could be the cause of my visual distortion but since the early days my perception has been changed in ways characteristic to all the substances that I frequent and have had in the past. I want to get glasses and get my vision checked soon to see what the difference is but my vision almost used to be clear, I can only see far comfortably closer than one foot turns into double vision, and patterns cause me to see double as if one eye is out of whack. Pot makes it harder to read... the letters dance in a static fast shaking way. I'm limited as to how much I can read or watch a screen. I can only see far and real world comfortably.
 
Erowid visitors are a geeky subset of psychedelic users, and HPPDers (as we were once called) are typically obsessive and trawl the internet a lot for information in the beginning

Yup, likewise with "normal people" fearful of having HPPD. Internet surveys aren't really conclusive and thus not very useful. Anyone can fill out a questionnaire. But still, it's noteworthy in this thread.

Is it really possible to forget about your condition though? Seems rather hard to ignore it when it can be such a debilitating disorder.
 
Is it really possible to forget about your condition though? Seems rather hard to ignore it when it can be such a debilitating disorder.

It's difficult in the sense of being closer to impossible than easy, but easy in that it requires no conscious effort, just a kind of mental discipline. HPPD is definitely many times more noticeable when someone is anxious.

When I developed HPPD five years ago I also quickly developed a panic disorder to an insane extreme, depersonalisation, derealisation, paranoia, delusion... my "reality checks" were intact and my personality seemed externally the same, but my experience of the world completely disintegrated for months. It's hard to put that across well, but imagine waking up to find you felt exactly as if you had just hit a small pipe of salvia, with no end in sight, for an endless succession of days. It's bad-trip scary, maybe not as intense, but just as apparently neverending.

Obviously anyone in this state, with HPPD going on at the same time, will have difficulty making sense of the world, and I became obsessed with solipsistic ideas and all kinds of stuff that would make Philip K Dick look like a paragon of sanity.

Eventually though, my brain just somehow readjusted, and I realised once I was not panicking that not thinking about this would make pretty much all of it go away.

I can still perceive the same distortions that I saw then if I strain my attention to it, but really, anyone who tries hard enough can, even people who have never taken a drug (especially children, by the way, for extra freakiness). Only the most severe HPPD will stop you from reading - beyond that, perceiving it is a mental behaviour, a self-reinforcing loop of some kind, and the best ways to break out are a drug-free, active lifestyle, benzodiazepines (I realise the contradiction between that and drug-free), and best of all, cognitive behavioural therapy and emotional support. Not reading about HPPD is a great place to start forgetting though.

Many who recover from this (and despite not exactly following my own advice about it, I count myself among them) will not be posting about it in forums years later, except to say stuff like I'm saying now - it's even obvious on bluelight, where there are loads of us who scarcely mention it. This creates a false impression, especially on the internet, that there are few success stories.
 
Obviously that's not to minimize the efforts of anyone who hasn't recovered, it's definitely a lot to do with luck as well.

The bizarrest thing, though, is that there are literally huge numbers of people with visual distortions that don't have HPPD. I have lots of non drug-using friends, who have things that are kind of somewhere between migraines and epilepsy but not as severe, who describe somewhat similar symptoms. A lot of people excuse this as "dizzy spells", but they get auras, visual snow, palinopsia.. and lots of intraocular stuff.
 
One more thing - anyone still stuck in the early stage of this, a tip that helps some people but can't really be explained; if you are stuck in a social situation and feel anxious because of your visuals, stare at a light, like a candle or a torch directed at your face. It helps the "forgetting" because the light can overwhelm the visuals.
 
I think most people who do a significant amount of hallucinogens have some degreee of visual degradation, which is borne out by the study I linked above.

Note that HPPD is a psychiatric diagnosis, which means you don't actually have it unless you are bothered by the symptoms. I think this means that someone who is prone to psychosomatic anxiety / hypochondria (like me) will be significantly more likely to develop a case of HPPD that troubles them, than a more care-free individual would given the same psychedelic exposure.
an rud is annamh said:
The bizarrest thing, though, is that there are literally huge numbers of people with visual distortions that don't have HPPD. I have lots of non drug-using friends, who have things that are kind of somewhere between migraines and epilepsy but not as severe, who describe somewhat similar symptoms. A lot of people excuse this as "dizzy spells", but they get auras, visual snow, palinopsia.. and lots of intraocular stuff.
Most people who have never taken psychedelic drugs can identify with some/all aspects of my own HPPD when I take the time to really, really explain the symptoms carefully. Basically, there's all kinds of perceptual shit flying at your brainstem all the time, which is being rejected by your perceptual filtering hardware before it hits you. Once you disinhibit those filters a few times, you may become consciously aware of stuff that you had previously ignored. Once you are aware of something, it is very hard to consciously ignore it.

For me, HPPD is, among other things, this image. You can go your whole life and only see the vases, but once you see that face the first time, well, you just try to not see it!
 
Note that HPPD is a psychiatric diagnosis, which means you don't actually have it unless you are bothered by the symptoms. I think this means that someone who is prone to psychosomatic anxiety / hypochondria (like me) will be significantly more likely to develop a case of HPPD that troubles them, than a more care-free individual would given the same psychedelic exposure.

I think you are correct - the most salient indicator for HPPD proclivity until there are great advances in gene expression studies (and general understanding of perception) is latent anxiety, and visual snow when smoking cannabis (anecdotally). Sudden interest in introspection and obsessive self-analysis could be indicators, but for me they were symptoms that only appeared afterwards.

Problem is, latent anxiety is latent. I never had a panic attack until three weeks before I noticed that I had developed HPPD, and that was a bad (and final) acid trip, but I think there's no way of attributing the disorder to my last trip other than the anxiety link, and there were "warning signs" before that I just didn't understand.

Because of those signs I think the neurological changes (something along the lines of the GABA/5ht2a theory) would have developed anyway without my last trip, just without the same level of anxiety, so I may never have developed clinical HPPD until I discovered the features of panic attacks. Who knows, or cares - but this does raise an issue with my most hated of the "psychedelic dogmas" repeated on BL and elsewhere, that you can't develop a mental disorder from LSD use unless it is already present but unapparent. This is a contradiction, since as you pointed out - disorders, in psychiatry are only diagnosed when they are apparent (and causing distress).

In making the personal decision of whether hallucinogens are safe, the only advice this dogma gives you is "am I already suffering from schizophrenia/panic disorder/visual disinhibition but I don't know about it?". Beyond family history, there is no indicator of that. And as many of us agree, many if not all HPPD symptoms are present in everyone, more noticeably, I believe, in children and in those who get migraines and dizzy spells.

The only area where I'm not so certain I agree with you is the "unseeing" bit. I still notice the cup/face illusion, but it is possible for me to consciously ignore it, and the same applies to my visual symptoms. I don't know if I developed this ability, or if I always had it (or everyone has it), but I'd say it can be cultured by the same means that people deal with emotional traumas, which to me, is much of what the experience of HPPD is.
 
Yup

My experiences? Shrooms about 9 times, LSD once, Salvia once, DXM low dose once, LSA once, Weed constantly for about a year and a half. Also, last May, I accidentally was sold weed heavily laced with PCP. I tripped balls, felt the effects and dissociation for months (its been 9 months, and the world still looks a bit PCP ish, hard to describe) But apart from the PCP, never a bad trip.

It's weird too, i think HPPD has some sort of potentiation time, because the PCP intoxication was so bad and stressful that I had stress hives growing all over my body, it was horrible, but it wasnt until the 5th month that it just randomly came, figure that one out.

I got HPPD, 5 months after my last shroom trip, while still heavily feeling the effects of the PCP. It just happened randomly one night. I couldnt sleep. I got a panic attack, next thing i know, everythings goin dark from the periphery in, I turn on the lights and im basically tripping, seeing static everywhere. So, after 5 months of nothing, MOST of the symptoms came at me at once.

I finally pass out, and when i wake up its still there. Trip to the ER, get treated like a junkie, she gives me a benzo to appease me and get me out i suppose, and thats as far as ive gone trying to get professional help.

Ever since that day, i see phosphenes, trails (mostly from waving my arms though) static, halos and streaks around and through every light, my ears pop, i get headpressure, I feel a bit foggy, but thankfully no DP/DR. Oh, and I was also pretty anxious...evn though ive never had anxiety in my life.

Lately ive been gettin body aches, but i think thats just from my posture.

Anyway, while it bothers me, i guess the fact that id been in PCP hell for so long, kinda made this easier to deal with.

it's worth noting that I started smoking weed again, and at first it was sketchy, id feel like a PCP flashback was comin, and would have to work hard to control it. Weed would also worsen my hppd considerably, my computer would bend and morph, I would see flashes of color, and hieroglyphic-like shapes on walls and on my skin when it was dark (those were actually cool, it always amazed me that my brain could conjure up images so perfect and symmetrical like that.)

Anyway, ive pretty much been high since december, smoking constantly day in and day out, and my visuals have actually died down. My ears dont pop as often. I dont get jolts of electricity in my head. My eyes arent dry all the time. My anxiety is practically gone. The afterimages have died down considerably. Snow isnt as prominent. Shit doesnt really bend and morph anymore.

The nagging fear that it could one day randomly get worse is always there, but im hopeful, Im happy, im doin pretty well in school, and I actually got laid for the first time in 10 months about a week ago! She was a stunner too!

I do have HPPD, dont fuckin tell me I dont, but my symptoms arent bad, especially compared to what some people have to go through, so I pretty much consider myself the luckiest man alive. I smoked the PCP laced weecd with a friend who is psychotic to this day, and had to drop out of school.

I count my blessings on a regular basis. If you think you have HPPD, quit doin drugs man, it isnt worth it. Some people think that a free trip is cool, but it isnt just that.

Its DPDR, its depression, crippling anxiety, light sensitivity, body aches and pains, cognitive issues, etc. Noones HPPD is the same. And while I can smoke and get back to baseline after a day or two, there are people out there who cant go to bed after 10pm or drink a single beer because their symptoms will get PERMANENTLY worse.

If youre on this thread bein cynical, then just hope that you never get it. And if you do have it, I know it's hard, but it's all about attitude! Fuck the haters, surround yourself with people who love you, and try to keep positive, Ive known people whove had HPPD completely disappear after a year or so of being abstinent from drugs n shiet.

Peace :)
 
Also, Ive found that fish oil and valerian root help, St johns Wort makes it worse, if anyones interested.
 
Hopefully you will get better! :)

Maybe it is good idea to see a doctor? Especially about these symptoms:
Its DPDR, its depression, crippling anxiety, light sensitivity, body aches and pains, cognitive issues, etc

Don't tell him you have HPPD if you don't want to.
 
Haha nah man I dont have any of those symptoms, thankfully...but some people do, it's different for everybody
 
^ Glad to hear you're alright! :) I thought that you have these problems because you're new here and posted only in HPPD thread.

Anyhow, welcome to Bluelight, hopefully you'll have great time here! ;)
 
Hey everyone, need some advice.

I've had HPPD or 5 years. Please do not argue the validity of that statement, I find it quite maddening that people won't accept that it exists and is debilitating. Anyway, I started klon 2 years in. Never touched anything after the initial onset. No weed, nothing.

Last weekend, someone slipped me some E (sinister, I know, but besides the point), which was what caused my HPPD in the first place. Over the two years, the klon (clonazapam) that I have been taking had reduced my physical symptoms (dizziness, tunnel vision, upper body muscle tension) to zero while reducing my visual symptoms dramatically such that they didn't matter anymore.

Now, all the physical symptoms are back and they are above all the most debilitating. My neck is stiff, I have a permanent tension headache (i.e. head pressure) and my muscles are beginning to clench up pretty hard. I'm trying to "relax" and I don't feel anxious at all, but the internal loop seems to be manifesting. Anyone have similar experience where their symptoms pretty much disappeared, then they dosed and it caused a relapse? If so, (consider I'm still on clonazapam), how long did they last for if they did abate? What is my best course of action (and not thinking about it is the obvious, but trust me, with symptoms like these which not everyone gets, that's not really an option -- it's not just visual). Thanks for your help.
 
You may actually be experiencing the effects of "tolerance withdrawal" from the clonazepam, believe it or not. Klonopin has become notorious for producing a withdrawal state in long-term users. The fact that clonazepam reduces the severity of the symptoms makes this all the more likely, since a withdrawal exacerbates the effects of "HPPD" mucho.

If you dislike what you are experiencing, I would switch to diazepam, which has a very low incidence of tolerance withdrawal (almost nil unless you are a long-term abuser). The thing about continuing with the Klonopin is that the tolerance withdrawal has the same effect as coming off then re-instating a benzo habit, which is not allowing you to get used to the effects of the HPPD. If you decide to reduce your benzos, you will find that the symptoms of HPPD become far more manageable over time. You might actually learn to regard them as a part of your life, and learn to use the effects for personal benefit.
 
I've had experience a handful of psychedelics and never had any after effects.
Recently I've started taking E when I'm out (nothing major, maybe once or twice a month) and noticed whenever in light rooms the walls look very sharp (a bit like when i'm peaking) and it looks like I'm watching a 3d film without the glasses. It's not massive but it is obvious.

It's been about a month since I last tripped, I reckon this has been going on for two weeks after I rolled on that weekend. It doesn't concern me but, I'm curious to know if it would be a late onset of mild HPPD from the acid or due to the e?
I don't know a lot about it, or what substances causes it...
 
I'm curious to know if it would be a late onset of mild HPPD from the acid or due to the e?
I don't know a lot about it, or what substances causes it...

The visual symptoms you describe are usually associated with MDMA-related HPPD. Alot of people who get it from MDMA experience tunnel vision, problems with size constancy and depth perception etc. Acid would be alot more visuals, fractals, color confusion, pseudohallucinations, rippling etc.

Be careful man, if I was you I'd discontinue all drug use for a while, it's a long, deep well, HPPD :p
 
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