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The Big & Dandy HPPD Thread

Haha, it's amazing that so many people call this disorder a bunch of bullshit.

I know what it looks like to go from looking at the Texas summer sky to going into a dim room. I have also seen decent amounts of tracers and floaters my whole life. These are normal and not a big deal.

HPPD is different.... seriously.

. Contrasting colors in text v. background lead to negative after images roughly floating around the text. I have over the top amazing vision, but I have to take more time to read things from a distance. I still can fine, but I have to wait for certain "overlaps" to dissipate, much longer than I used to certainly. (If I did at one point.)
. Basic geometric patterns that obviously aren't there are much more apparent when I look at simple alignments of certain things in my vision. Small tiles on floors lead to me instantly seeing diagonal lines of transparent black, static, and white meshed together upon my change in vision. They last, but once I take the time to think they are greatly reduced. If I keep staring without moving my focus, they intensify, but that could just be me making myself trip out a bit.
. When I look at a professor standing against a white marker board (contrast at long distance, again), I can see an off color mix of black, red, fuzz, and white around their outline that is transparent but highly unusual. It is like visual static that is described by others, but more visually specific and has more of a psychedelic ooze feeling to it over just plan grey. This is actually the first thing that got me into researching HPPD. I didn't read first and then suspect, I was just confused why my vision seemed off. (I figured it was drug induced and afterglow upon afterglow. Over 100 trips on traditional psychedelics and RC phenethylamines and tryptamines combined. Over 100 trips on syrup and extracted DXM, usually 3rd plateau. However, I have had plenty at sigma and plenty below. This was all a couple year long binge accompanied by daily marijuana smoking and plenty of non-hallucinogenic drugs, so I wouldn't come to conclusions at that point. However, I have been sober for quite a while now and they aren't much different.)
.Visual snow, especially when looking at the sky.
.Random, yet nearly instantaneously "flashes" in my vision like a lightbulb broke in a room with no other source of light. Happens at work, college, home, outside, etc. Environment doesn't matter. However, this is probably my least common residual visual effect.
.Plenty of other shit, but I don't search my field of vision for things that are unusual. I'm not a hypochondriac, I am the kind of guy that pushes off analyzing medical conditions in general, it's just my natural reaction. I wouldn't call myself an HPPD'er until I had a few "what.... the FUCK?" moments completely sober.


That being said, I have no experiences of depersonalization or derealization, so it's not something I worry about on a daily basis even when I see it. I have real issues to worry about, not some mildly interesting visual perma-fry that rarely gets in the way. (Saying this has caused other HPPD'ers to say I don't have it.... I am just the same logical person I was before that doesn't wanna flip a shit.)

So yeah, I would say it's VERY real and more common than some extreme psychedelic advocates would like to think. (I still am one, I am writing this on a sort of forced sobriety break.) A lot of people freak out of mild to non existent symptoms, but it's annoying to get clumped with them because of their behavior.

But yeah, nothing specific set it off for me. I noticed it about a year ago after my peak of dxm use. (Psychedelics were used, but not close to the way I used dex at the time.) My HPPD seemed to plateau after those months and months of binging. I set myself off on another binge about half a year ago that lasted a similar amount of time, but had chemicals swapped. (Some high dose dxm trips, but highly frequent trypt/PEA use.) This didn't seem to make it much worse, which is why I never really got turned off drugs.

So yeah... don't judge those with it calling them big fakers. Anybody who freaks the FUCK out over it constantly has something going on, I just think an anxious or stubborn personality is what makes the disorder a big deal.

EDIT:

I forgot to mention that MDMA was used in a very regular fashion over the past year. It never did much that I could notice though. (To my HPPD, I loved rolling haha.) :D
 
Axxaer said:
I have it, and being a relatively light user makes me suspect it relates at least in part to susceptibility as much as how much you use it. I have friends who have used more than me and have less/no symptoms.

I have many of the typical symptoms - visual snow, floaters, halos, tracers, afterimages, etc. It's pretty fucking lame, but not too hard to cope with at this stage. I don't notice it usually, when I'm doing something. Like if I'm playing sport it won't manifest at all. It's primarily obvious when I'm just sitting around doing nothing; I get it heaps when I'm waiting at traffic lights - something about the road (moderate afterimages from the line markings), the sky (strong visual snow), and cars (mild tracers) brings it all out.

I don't want it to get worse, but I also don't want to stop using psychs. :\
Click to expand...


they're currently working on surveys and research to get something out that could potentially help people int erms of knowing if they are susceptible to something like HPPD.

The next y ear or 2 will be exciting to see what kind of work they put out on it. They've just recently granted funding for HPPD research up at harvard mclean. Good times for us indeed!
 
I had read this disorder was really uncommon (less than 1% of psychedelics users), but after discovering this thread i am getting more and more worried about it. Is necessary to have latent mental problems to be affected by HPPD? Is conclusive a long term abuse or it could appear with a few uses of pschycs? How many persons in this forum are really diagnosed?
 
bickoma said:
If you believe you do have HPPD, please answer:
Click to expand...
Depends on if you consider repeated, negative results as a mandatory part of the definition. I have occasionally had negative results from lingering visual disturbances; but generally less than 0.1% of the visual disturbances have any influence over reality (i.e. I mostly ignore it). When not ignoring it, I agree with this guy ^^
correctly said:
i like HPPD ;)
Click to expand...

bickoma said:
1) How many times have you tripped?
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Close to 800 times straight tryptamines; significantly smaller amounts of other entheogenic substances. For me, however, the visual disturbances set on very early in my career.

bickoma said:
2) Did you experience HPPD after a bad trip?
Click to expand...
Yes; but intensity of symptoms has always had much greater correlation to amount of usage; no real relation to bad trips on the long term.

bickoma said:
3) On which substances did HPPD become apparent?
Click to expand...
Lysergic was the substance of choice - but there were too many things involved to roll out involvement of other substances.
 
you have to remember, lingering visual symptoms after hallucinogenic drug use is common. Whats uncommon is when these disturbances become ten fold, and even new visual disturbances that you've never seen in your life present themselves. IF you had real HPPD, you would know its not something you want.

objects jump around all the time in my peripheral vision.

When i look at a beam of light, i can see the starbursts stem off of it forrreevverr and actually see the light divide into the colo spectrums.

I get afterimages after glancing at a light for 2 seconds and the afterimage will remain for atleast 1 minute

Starbursts from the sun are so intense i cant look directly at them without hurting my head and having a afterimage that will slowly turn into a negative afterimage and cover my visual field wherever i move my eyes.

I see gigantic halos around light at night. Some stretch out further then that light pole is tall.

When coming up to a stop sign at night, it'll look like theres a double imprint of the sign right behind the real one until i get right up on it. It makes it hard for me to read some signs unless i squint my eyes and tilt my head forward to get rid of the ghosting.

I have visual static so bad in dark rooms that i cant see anything.

Tracers

Ill watch as certain dark colors will turn to different colors infront of my eyes. Like a dark blue shoe turning black, or text on a piece of paper.

Everywhere i look that has a light background, i see all different kinds of floaters, EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME.

These persist all day, 24/7 no let up. Its no coming and going. They are always there.
 
^I’m curious, have you ever sought treatment for the symptoms you describe?

As you seem to be aware, there is preliminary evidence that some antiepileptics (particularly Levetiracetam/Keppra) are effective in alleviating the persistent distortions in visual perception cause by psychedelics, as documented by the complete disappearance of EEG abnormalities in affected subjects. I have less confidence that antiepileptics are efficacious in treating the depersonalization/derealization aspects of HPPD, but there is enough evidence supporting the resolution of visual symptoms for me to recommend a medication trial for anyone that is significantly bothered by the phenomena. I would like to hear some anecdotal evidence regarding the efficacy (or lack thereof) of Levetiracetam for HPPD.

I have two hypotheses for the lasting visual phenomenon. First of all, induction of neurotrophic factors could potentially cause aberrant neuronal connections, which could reinforce the perceptual distortions experienced under the influence of a psychedelic. Under this premise, there would be unregulated proliferation in select regions of the visual cortex, resulting in durable synaptic changes. Large-scale proliferation of inhibitory connections in Layer 4 of V1 could cause problems with visual input. I think this hypothesis is less likely due to lack of evidence for the proposed mechanism.

I've also seen it proposed that symptoms could be due to increased 5-HT sensitivity of these inhibitory neurons in the claustrum and Layer 4 of V1. The lasting effect is difficult to explain, but a recent publication may shed some light on enduring alterations in neuronal function. In this hypothesis, histone acetylation and chromatin remodeling would be responsible long lasting changes in gene transcription. This hypothesis has been proposed to underlie cocaine-induced transcriptional changes in the nucleus accumbens, which are thought to be responsible for lasting changes in reward processing seen in addiction. For this hypothesis, there is emerging evidence for specific mechanisms.

Excellent paper from the May issue of Neuron. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.libproxy.lib.unc.edu/sites/entrez

And to ShaolinBomber, here is an excellent overview of visual processing and a potential mechanism for acute and chronic visual changes associated with psychedelic use.

Hypothesis of the mechanisms underlying visual distortions caused by psychedelic drugs
 
NoxNoctum said:
How common is HPPD?

I'm a little worried now about getting into this stuff...
Click to expand...

^The exact prevalence is unknown. Estimates range from 0.1%-4% of psychedelic users. The actual number is probably toward the lower end due to nonrandom sampling and the fact that individuals with the condition would be more likely to respond to the survey. Use in controlled settings (i.e. in psychotherapy or through the Native American Church) seems to be associated with a very low prevalence of HPPD.

Estimates of lasting visual changes (subclinical) in psychedelic users range widely, from 5%-75%. There haven't been any reliable studies to look at the prevalence, but it has been demonstrated that LSD users may be unaware of measurable visual changes, so self reporting is not particularly accurate.

HPPD FAQ
 
Dondante said:
^I’m curious, have you ever sought treatment for the symptoms you describe?

As you seem to be aware, there is preliminary evidence that some antiepileptics (particularly Levetiracetam/Keppra) are effective in alleviating the persistent distortions in visual perception cause by psychedelics, as documented by the complete disappearance of EEG abnormalities in affected subjects. I have less confidence that antiepileptics are efficacious in treating the depersonalization/derealization aspects of HPPD, but there is enough evidence supporting the resolution of visual symptoms for me to recommend a medication trial for anyone that is significantly bothered by the phenomena. I would like to hear some anecdotal evidence regarding the efficacy (or lack thereof) of Levetiracetam for HPPD.

I have two hypotheses for the lasting visual phenomenon. First of all, induction of neurotrophic factors could potentially cause aberrant neuronal connections, which could reinforce the perceptual distortions experienced under the influence of a psychedelic. Under this premise, there would be unregulated proliferation in select regions of the visual cortex, resulting in durable synaptic changes. Large-scale proliferation of inhibitory connections in Layer 4 of V1 could cause problems with visual input. I think this hypothesis is less likely due to lack of evidence for the proposed mechanism.

I've also seen it proposed that symptoms could be due to increased 5-HT sensitivity of these inhibitory neurons in the claustrum and Layer 4 of V1. The lasting effect is difficult to explain, but a recent publication may shed some light on enduring alterations in neuronal function. In this hypothesis, histone acetylation and chromatin remodeling would be responsible long lasting changes in gene transcription. This hypothesis has been proposed to underlie cocaine-induced transcriptional changes in the nucleus accumbens, which are thought to be responsible for lasting changes in reward processing seen in addiction. For this hypothesis, there is emerging evidence for specific mechanisms.
Excellent paper from the May issue of Neuron. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.libproxy.lib.unc.edu/sites/entrez

And to ShaolinBomber, here is an excellent overview of visual processing and a potential mechanism for acute and chronic visual changes associated with psychedelic use.

Hypothesis of the mechanisms underlying visual distortions caused by psychedelic drugs
Click to expand...

yes im currently seeing a nuerologist and a psychiatrist and im taking keppra and klonopin. Keppra seems to help reduce some of the visuals bet hasn't had much effect on the disassociation as it does not effectively reduce excitation in the parts of the brain responisble for self idenitiy, spatial awareness and overall perceptual awareness of self and environment. This is when i started taking klonopin since klonopin will bind to all serotonergic neurons in the brain.

I've done my fair share of reading on this and what lobes of the brain seem to be effected. It seem that the disassociation and the visual disturbances all lie within the neocortex. Abnromal excitation was seen with specialized brain scans done by Dr. Abraham showing excitation in the temporal, parietal, and occipital lobes of the brain. This could be an explanation as to why so many people report disassociation symptoms with HPPD onset.


I've talked with david Kozin a couple times, (hes the main assistant researcher up at harvard mclean at the moment and is currently working with Dr. Abraham and john halpern. He just noww got a grant and is funded by the school to continue his research which will be strictly on HPPD. ITs very exciting times indeed.) Anyway, i've talked to david a couple times and there could be more than one mechanism at work here. Sensitivity to serotonin is a possibility. 5-ht2a receptor loss on GABAergic inihibitory interneurons is also a possibility. And like you said, abnormal synaptic strength between seroternergic and GABAergic neurons is another possibility. The next year or 2 will shed so much light on these questions since they WILL be bringing people into harvard and performing tests on them that havn't been done before to see exactly whats going on.
 
^Interesting, thanks. :D

Two more questions if you don't mind ... first, how long have you been taking Keppra? And second, which aspects of the visual disturbances have been alleviated and which have not?
 
Dondante said:
^Interesting, thanks. :D

Two more questions if you don't mind ... first, how long have you been taking Keppra? And second, which aspects of the visual disturbances have been alleviated and which have not?
Click to expand...

i've been on keppra about 2 weeks now. Ghosting, floaters and afterimages seem to be slightly diminished. Keppra has had little to no effect on the disassociation.


Klonopin however is the most effective benzo at reducing disassociation symptoms.
 
I think i have a light HPPD.
Last trip was on 5-meo-mipt and it wasn't a bad trip, but one of the few in which i wanted to get back to reality.
I said "i think" because it's quite subtle. I have more constrast persistance than before, sometime lines acros text and bright things in peripherals. One night i awake and feel like a blue light fog was inside my home.

Currently i stopped trypts and phens. I still take some stims sometimes.

What do you think guys ?
 
After a few summer trips, surprisingly mine hasn't got any worse and hasn't even been very noticeable lately. However, I've had some unusual sharp pains in my head quite often for the last 3 weeks.. meh.
 
Chips said:
I think i have a light HPPD.
Last trip was on 5-meo-mipt and it wasn't a bad trip, but one of the few in which i wanted to get back to reality.
I said "i think" because it's quite subtle. I have more constrast persistance than before, sometime lines acros text and bright things in peripherals. One night i awake and feel like a blue light fog was inside my home.

Currently i stopped trypts and phens. I still take some stims sometimes.

What do you think guys ?
Click to expand...

if you had HPPD you would know it =D
 
Ive slowed right down on everything now havnt touched any real pills, mdma, mushrooms, acid or any of that in like a month, was a daily cannabis smoker for 5 years and now smoke less than 1 small spliff every couple of days, if that.
Had a lil bit of high purity coke last weekend but didnt seem to affect anything too much.

The HPPD actually seems worse now ive cut down tho even when sober the static is more pronounced, the after images and ghosting etc is more noticeable aswell.
I did have quite abit of crazy disassociation, paranoia and anxiety which I took as a warning, the reason why I made the decision.
 
Do any of you notice also with HPPD when sober your eyes feel very shifty, sometimes cockeyed and other people can see this?
 
Chips said:
But can those things just be a starting one ? I means by still taking psychs it can become higher ?
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Yeah, I had the feeling that the room was filled with fog even when sober and I eventually developed visual snow about 8 months after first noticing that. I don't think it means for sure that you would get more hppd, but it could be a starting point. It's a crap shoot. Some people are fine for 100s of trips, some get screwed after 1 :-).
 
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