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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

What about the 5HT2B agonism?
If i would take DOC one or two times a month, could that be dangerous for the heart or is it only a concern when using chronically?
And what about redosing.Let s say 4 mg is not enough, can i redose 1 mg after 3 hours or should i wait longer?
Thanks.
 
It takes about 3-4 hours to fully set in. Have you taken it before? 4mg is a pretty high dose for most people. I've taken it many, many times and I usually go for 3mg.

I have taken DOC a lot, up to weekly for an entire summer (and a brief period where I did it more often than that, years ago). It seems fine to me, but don't take my word for it. Personally I feel good about once or twice a month.
 
lexaurin said:
What about the 5HT2B agonism?
If i would take DOC one or two times a month, could that be dangerous for the heart or is it only a concern when using chronically?
And what about redosing.Let s say 4 mg is not enough, can i redose 1 mg after 3 hours or should i wait longer?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can redose. You can always redose. But I don't recommend it. You'll get easily a stimulation of more than 12 hours, you won't want to extend that period more time. 4mg will be enough, trust me. Even a lot for a first time. With just 2mg doses I tripped harder than on a tenstrip of LSD back on the past. If the dose isn't enough, up the dose next time, but redosing doesn't seem wise with this one.
 
I have taken it once last year. 3 mg was a mild trip for me personally, but the coming up was very rough.
With phens(2c-e, 2c-b, 2c-d, 2c-c) i am a hardhead, i need way more than my friends to have a strong trip.
 
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Why do you guys think the dosages for the phens (dox and 2cx) are all over the place compared to the tryptamines?
I for example need 50 mg 2c-e oral to have a strong trip. Some people here need 5-8 mg DOC for a strong trip other 2-4mg.
With 4 ho-met i only need 15 mg for a strong trip. Why such a big difference between the two?
 
lexaurin said:
Why do you guys think the dosages for the phens (dox and 2cx) are all over the place compared to the tryptamines?
I for example need 50 mg 2c-e oral to have a strong trip. Some people here need 5-8 mg DOC for a strong trip other 2-4mg.
With 4 ho-met i only need 15 mg for a strong trip. Why such a big difference between the two?
Click to expand...

Well, maybe unpure batches? With analyzed 99% 2C-E and 4-HO-MET, more than 25mg of either 2C-E or 4-HO-MET feels overwhelming with low tolerance. Or just natural high tolerance to phens.
 
lexaurin said:
Why do you guys think the dosages for the phens (dox and 2cx) are all over the place compared to the tryptamines?
I for example need 50 mg 2c-e oral to have a strong trip. Some people here need 5-8 mg DOC for a strong trip other 2-4mg.
With 4 ho-met i only need 15 mg for a strong trip. Why such a big difference between the two?
Click to expand...

I've encountered other people like that too. At first I thought it was due to impure batches, and it could be, but I have talked to people who have gotten the same batches as me who still need what would for me be tremendously huge doses of phenethylamines. Actually a few of them are like that for me too... I need 40mg of 2C-B to start getting a somewhat immersive experience. I took 45mg of 2C-T-7 and it felt weak.

I also require abnormally large doses of lysergamides, though the more I trip on them the less I need for some reason. I was actually unable to trip on LSD for years, my friends would be tripping hard and I would have taken more of the same batch, and I wouldn't feel anything. I took 3 of the Hofmann blotters from circa 2006, felt only threshold. Finally I took 5 strong hits at a festival a couple of years ago and tripped, and ever since then I still require more than others but not as much, and I have full trips on it.
 
there are even examples in PiHKAL of people in Shulgin's research group having idiosyncratic reactions to only one or two phenethylamines, while they react the same as "normal" to the rest. just comes down to individual physiology i think.
 
Personally, I find that 4mg of DOC with no tolerance provides a very good ride. My first DOC trip was 2mg which was the perfect introduction. From there I went on to 3mg and then 4mg. This is my sweet spot. Much better to start low and work up on this particular drug as the exit door is a long way from the entrance and you'll be stuck inside the trip for a long period of time!

I have a question on redosing. As mentioned I love 4mg of DOC. The Peak is amazing and, according to my notes lasts roughly from hour 3 to hour 8. My question is how do I prolong this? Given that it takes 3 hours to reach the initial peak, do I redose at hour 5 or do I need to go earlier? Care is needed because I don't really want to make the Peak much more intense. Also, what sort of quantity would be needed?

I know that you'll be thinking I'm mad for wanting to prolong an already long trip, but the time needed to trip on DOC comes up so rarely I want to make the most of it! In the past I have dosed with 2C-B, 2C-E, 2c-p, miprocin etc. after about hour 12, but after the intensity if DOC they all seem rather lacking.
 
I find that redosing DOC works pretty well in general. Seems like an hour 5 would be the right time if you want to prolong the peak without strengthening it. But I'd still bet that it won't fully extend the peak at the same strength.
 
Xorkoth said:
I find that redosing DOC works pretty well in general. Seems like an hour 5 would be the right time if you want to prolong the peak without strengthening it. But I'd still bet that it won't fully extend the peak at the same strength.
Click to expand...

You're probably right about the reduced intensity; would still be better than dosing with something else though IMHO.
what sort of dose do you think would be needed? Another 4mg or lower?
 
Oh definitely lower. When I redose DOC, I add 1-1.5mg, and it certainly boosts the intensity about what you'd expect. I think doubling from 4-8mg is excessive and could even be dangerous due to vasoconstriction, possibly.
 
Xorkoth said:
Oh definitely lower. When I redose DOC, I add 1-1.5mg, and it certainly boosts the intensity about what you'd expect. I think doubling from 4-8mg is excessive and could even be dangerous due to vasoconstriction, possibly.
Click to expand...

Got it. 1.5mg it will be. Won't be until September though, but something to look forward to. Thanks for your advice as ever!
 
Xorkoth said:
Oh definitely lower. When I redose DOC, I add 1-1.5mg, and it certainly boosts the intensity about what you'd expect. I think doubling from 4-8mg is excessive and could even be dangerous due to vasoconstriction, possibly.
Click to expand...

Good recommendation. Shulgin himself gave the maximum recommended dose on this chemical as 3mg. Shulgin was an experienced and intelligent chemist. I also advocate his technique of allergy testing each chemical, especially with with DOX chemicals considering the risk of potentially malignant vasoconstriction.
 
Absolutely, allergy testing is a must for new compounds and new batches. It brings to mind back in 2006 or 2007 or whenever, when that guy had a custom synth of 2C-B-fly done and was trying to distribute it, and he took what would have been a safe dose of 2C-B-fly to test it. Unfortunately the lab that made it actually made DOB-dragonfly, and the guy died from an overdose, by vasoconstriction (DOB-dragonfly is among the most dangerously vasoconstricting psychedelics we've yet come across). If he had allergy tested 1mg, he would have gotten significant effects and realized it wasn't 2C-B-fly, but instead he just went for it and paid for that mistake with his life.
 
For whatever reason I never ever needed more than 1.5-2mg of this to fully get off. I am seeing questions about taking 4mg and then redosing with 4mg and I'm just thinking how miserable that would have been for me.

Effects are highly variable with this one. I really don't recommend anything above 1.5-2mg for a first time and there is that non-linear dose-response curve to account for as well.
 
Yeah for sure, I wouldn't recommend more than 2mg for the first time (after an allergy test of course). 2mg is a nice full trip for me, with light visuals, a great mental trip, and intense staying power. 3mg kicks the visuals up to a strong level and dramatically increases the strength of the mental trip too. It's very rare I want to take more than 3mg, and I'm pretty hardheaded in general. I'm sure some people do need more due to individual body chemistry but I'd definitely go into it assuming you'll be sensitive because if you are, 4mg would possibly be overwhelming.
 
I went through the vaults of the DOx family and couldn't find any timing, much less combos, of DOC and 4-aco/ho-met for some fireworks. My plan is low dosing. DOC at 1.5-1.7 & 15 tops mgs for the 4-sub. Still weighing out if I want smooth and duration (aco) or pretty and fast (ho).

I was thinking maybe the DOC at maybe 9 or 10 am and the 4 sub @ 9 pm. Too long, too low? Questions comments concerns quotes jokes anecdotes recipes and points of historical note, all are welcome

Thanks!
 
I combined 4-HO-MiPT with DOC and had an amazing, beautiful trip... my timing was that I dosed the DOC around noon, and the -MiPT at around 8 or 9pm, can't remember exactly. I took my usual doses of each (for me, it was 2.5mg of DOC and then 30mg of 4-HO-MiPT).
 
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