☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy DOC Thread - Third opinion

[InterestingFACT]

I really enjoyed nasal DOC, it was really cool just to pull out the vial and dump a few small bits outs whilst already triping of not.

This seems very dangerous. Please dose carefully using both a scale end volumetric measurement.

 

[Help?!?!]

Haha believe me I was being careful, I only did that after many rounds of weighing out DOC. The batch I had where like small white sugar granules which made it quite easy to estimate, though I admit it was dangerous in an HR sense you also must believe that I was fully willing to pay the price of whatever amount taken. Though I would always make sure it was only one or two small bits, which wouldn't even register on my sub mg scale.....

 

[Psychonautical]

These psychedelic amphetamines are too much for "normal users" or people who have fully functional brains.
i've done DOC several times and DOB like 10 times. In term of milligrams of each compound i've probably done at least 17mg of DOC and like 37-40 mg of DOB.
Now you see i also had a stimulant problem being that i was given Methylphenidate on a regular basis as a kid from the ages of 5-16. I know for a fact during that time in my life i've probably taken more than a kilogram of that shit.
This isn't even scratching the surface of my Mdma and other stimulant usage. Yes... i know... the numbers are truly horrifying.

But to this day, i will not forgot how the very first time DOB felt, and oddly enough i have never felt the same, before or after. It does not become a "feeling you seek" I think it's safe to say that these are incredibly potent and mildly neurotoxic substances.
Mostly due to the natural stresses of your mind being forced to release and work for as hard as it does for as long as it does while under the influence. I honestly can't say that i've ever had a fit of laughter that rivaled the fit of laughter i experienced the first time i did DOB. It must have been for like 6 hours or more straight just manic unrelenting laughter to the point where it was just annoying. I don't know if that's because i did like a DECADES worth of laughing during that period or whatever... but DOB has definitely burned a Bromine Hole into my Brain... and i thought i did damage from the past...

Ultimately i feel that if you choose to do the DO* series of compounds you shouldn't really do more than a few mg past the initial amount that got shulgin high. I wish there was a psychedelic compendium more complete than Pihkal and Tihkal of all of his lab notes involving ALL of his Trips. Not just the trips other people experienced as well... ever wonder how many times shulgin did mdma, or did amphetamine, or did Mescaline, or did the DO* series.
I for one would feel a whole lot better about things if the Grandfather of these compounds actually said "why yes, i did 2c-e about 27 times and i enjoyed it most as a 220 pound male, in the 17mg mark" We don't know how many times let alone if the first time is good for our central nervous systems. I think it's safe to say shulgin lived to a ripe old age, and if we keep our bodies and minds healthy it doesn't really matter what we do. But that doesn't mean their won't be causalities. Given that the inital lab rats of these compounds were a handful of people and one of them was the creator.

 

[InterestingFACT]

These psychedelic amphetamines are too much for "normal users" or people who have fully functional brains.
i've done DOC several times and DOB like 10 times. In term of milligrams of each compound i've probably done at least 17mg of DOC and like 37-40 mg of DOB.
Now you see i also had a stimulant problem being that i was given Methylphenidate on a regular basis as a kid from the ages of 5-16. I know for a fact during that time in my life i've probably taken more than a kilogram of that shit.
This isn't even scratching the surface of my Mdma and other stimulant usage. Yes... i know... the numbers are truly horrifying.

But to this day, i will not forgot how the very first time DOB felt, and oddly enough i have never felt the same, before or after. It does not become a "feeling you seek" I think it's safe to say that these are incredibly potent and mildly neurotoxic substances.
Mostly due to the natural stresses of your mind being forced to release and work for as hard as it does for as long as it does while under the influence. I honestly can't say that i've ever had a fit of laughter that rivaled the fit of laughter i experienced the first time i did DOB. It must have been for like 6 hours or more straight just manic unrelenting laughter to the point where it was just annoying. I don't know if that's because i did like a DECADES worth of laughing during that period or whatever... but DOB has definitely burned a Bromine Hole into my Brain... and i thought i did damage from the past...

Ultimately i feel that if you choose to do the DO* series of compounds you shouldn't really do more than a few mg past the initial amount that got shulgin high. I wish there was a psychedelic compendium more complete than Pihkal and Tihkal of all of his lab notes involving ALL of his Trips. Not just the trips other people experienced as well... ever wonder how many times shulgin did mdma, or did amphetamine, or did Mescaline, or did the DO* series.
I for one would feel a whole lot better about things if the Grandfather of these compounds actually said "why yes, i did 2c-e about 27 times and i enjoyed it most as a 220 pound male, in the 17mg mark" We don't know how many times let alone if the first time is good for our central nervous systems. I think it's safe to say shulgin lived to a ripe old age, and if we keep our bodies and minds healthy it doesn't really matter what we do. But that doesn't mean their won't be causalities. Given that the inital lab rats of these compounds were a handful of people and one of them was the creator.

It has caused me some concern in te past to think that DOx drugs are halogenated anphetamines. I mean they are substituted, and of course are also taken at very low doses. But para-chloro-amphetamine is a deadly neurotoxin, so I can't help but wonder if DOC isn't also at least somewhat damaging.

It's probably not best to use them overly often. Of course, it's probably best to space out all of your trips, regardless of the drug. And it's also not exactly easy to make time for a long trip like DOC offers. So I suspect that the normal pattern of use for fans of DOC isn't too harmful.

 

[Solipsis]

DOI which is of course close to DOC, is used as a probe in research. For some reason I'd be suprised if they used that if it selectively killed serotonergic neurons like p-CA does.
I'm guessing the dimethoxy matters a lot cause they prevent the compound from binding and interacting in certain ways, and let's not forget the potency making it so that not a high dose is required.

Perhaps DOC is a bit harmful in some way or the other but p-CA wouldn't be why I would be concerned. Despite DOX feeling stimulating and structurally being amphetamines, they don't really seem to act at all like typical amphetamines.

 

[rolllinlikeroyce]

i've done DOC several times and DOB like 10 times. In term of milligrams of each compound i've probably done at least 17mg of DOC and like 37-40 mg of DOB.

Were you TRYING to push the limits with these compounds? It's no wonder you felt like the DOx series was so toxic, you were taking doses so high that even experienced psychonauts could be left with PTSD-like symptoms. I have only taken DOB, but 4mg seemed more than sufficient for a full psychedelic experience. By the way, as far as this permanent change that you describe, it happens with all psychedelics... After trying mushrooms for the first time, my perception on everything changed forever. With each psychedelic I've tried throughout my life, I've learned more things and my mind has expanded to further places.

The DOx series, in my opinion, is a lesser favorite among most trippers because it is so often passed off as acid. The two may both be psychedelics that are active in micro doses, but their effects on the body and mind are a world apart. Each has its own merits and values as a catalyst for expansions of the consciousness, but when it comes to how the experience is perceived, it's all based on you. DOB is my favorite psychedelic. It may be a bit difficult as far as the intense effect it has on the body, but the trip was well worth it in my opinion. Many of my friends disagreed. I'm just saying that everyone's experience differs (with any drug, really), it's just frustrating when people downplay the value or safety profile of a substance just because they didn't enjoy the effects or misused it completely.

 

[phuckingnutz]

Were you TRYING to push the limits with these compounds? It's no wonder you felt like the DOx series was so toxic, you were taking doses so high that even experienced psychonauts could be left with PTSD-like symptoms. I have only taken DOB, but 4mg seemed more than sufficient for a full psychedelic experience.

I think he meant "all told"...?

 

[rolllinlikeroyce]

I think he meant "all told"...?

Indeed, I believe I misinterpreted that part of the post a bit. I think my message is still relevant, though. YMMV when it comes to psychedelic drugs. Some people enjoy these substances and others don't, it's as simple as that.

 

[Psychonautical]

No i wasn't trying to push these compounds, i realized some blotters i had purchased AS LSD were mis-represented. Fortunately I don't do a lot of drugs. Normally if i want to explore something, i explore normally 1 or 2 things a year. 2mg of DOB for me is a lot like 4-5 hits of LSD. But it take a lot longer to come up and lasts a lot longer and was way more primal in character. I also hadn't done alot of Actual LSD at that point in my life.

These blotters i had like over 8 years ago now, they were felix the cats blotters and they had 2mg of dob on them. As i said they were actually unfortunately sold to me as LSD, so i have taken, upwards of 6mg of DOB in one sitting... i dare say... 3 squares of felix had me fucked, for daaaaaaaaaaays. Yet i thought this was normal for LSD.

Now, if you were to take your normal and average suburban kid, whose maybe popped molly once or twice and did mushrooms but they never worked, and then never had a childhood filled with stimulants and very little appreciation for psychedelia and getting to KNOW thyself.
i do imagine 6mg, would cause a lot more than just ego death.

 

[InterestingFACT]

2mg of DOB for me really couldn't be compared to lets say 4-5 hits of LSD but it took a lot longer to come up and lasted a lot longer and was way more primal in character.
The blotters i had like over 8 years ago now, they were felix the cats blotters and they had 2mg of dob on them. They were actually unfortunately sold to me as LSD, so i have taken, upwards of 6mg of DOB in one sitting... i dare say...

That sounds rough. 2.2mg (with some tolerance) was fairly strong for me. I think next time I might go up to something closer to 3mg. But 6mg seems like it could be something akin to ego death.

 

[alantis360]

DOC is absolutely amazing. I feel so sharp and witty and on point, easy to dance. No anxiety or fear and very beneficial at the end.

 

[FunctionalOlfactio]

DOC is absolutely amazing. I feel so sharp and witty and on point, easy to dance. No anxiety or fear and very beneficial at the end.

I wonder what causes such conflicting reports. I have read about for reports of lasting psychosis or death. I am reminded of the 25X-NBOMe series, at first they appeared safe then the reports of fatalities started coming in. Several accounts of people going off the rails exist in the older Big and Dandy DOC threads. So, this chemical might be absolutely wonderful in your situation on this day, but on another day or for someone you share this with DOC could be harmful.

The safer chemicals aren't highly selective 5ht2a agonist. Maybe we are missing something different about LSD that makes it safer.

 

[InterestingFACT]

Anecdotally, I don't completely understand why people worry about DOC being too intense.

I tried it at 2.2mg, and then again at 3.5mg. It was very intense visually--and I enjoyed it quite a bit--however, I felt like I could have very comfortably done even more. My headspace was quite clear, and it didn't feel uncomfortable in any way during the plateau, even relaxing--though during the come-up I felt rather confused and stimulated.

I realize that I may not be the typical subject, because I'm prescribed vyvanse for ADHD, so I probably have a tolerance to the stimulating effects of this compound. However, I suspect that some of the "bad rap" it gets is because of the side-effects of the other DOx compounds--which are reported to be much more severe. I think most people can handle the stimulation that DOC causes, or if not I think a small dose of a benzo to help deal with the come-up would not be a bad idea at all.

Anyways. It provides a very unique visual effect. It makes things seem cartoony--almost like the art style of the game Borderlands. Very cool, and totally distinct from any other psychedelic I've touched. Personally, I think it's a very important compound because it taps into a portion of the psychedelic experience that other drugs don't seem to reach. It's a shame that DOC is occasionally sold as acid, but I think DOC just might have a place next to acid as a unique and magical experience that every psychonaut should try at least once.

EDIT: There's another fact worth mentioning. Admittedly I don't have all that much experience with this compound... however, it seems to develop only very mild tolerance. Dosing two days in a row, with the same dosage, seemed to create comparable effects on both days. I won't say there was no tolerance at all, but it's much milder than tryptamines, from what I can tell.

For example, on another occasion I dosed 15mg 4-aco-met on a friday, and then dosed (titrating up over the course of a few hours) a total of 35 mg on saturday, and still got lesser results than on the day before.

 

[psykedenlitenment]

Does anyone know if using 4-fa will cause tolerance issues with doc? Just wondering, as they both work on serotonin. I suppose this could more broadly adopt to all psychs also.

 

[Solipsis]

No probably not, 4-FA works as a releaser of serotonin (and dopamine) and maybe has some reuptake inhibiting properties but DOC is an agonist for serotonergic receptors. That's different.

I just ingested 100 ug as an allergy test, I plan on trying a normal dose this weekend but am not sure yet how to plan it. Preferably I would like to not fuck up my sleep rhythm even more but instead support the rhythm even if I lose sleep over it.
So I was thinking taking about 1.8 (so around 2) mg at 10 pm this evening, that way I would trip all night but hopefully be able to sleep sunday night. I hope it won't be uncomfortable to be so speedy all night without being able to be as loud and active as during the day...

By the way I have powder which was weighed at 11.1 mg total, and I further measured it volumetrically after dissolving it in strong spirits. It really smelled like a cholinated compound, very similar to 2C-C so that reassures me a bit. I totally forgot who gave me this sample years ago, IIRC it was someone reliable enough. When I weighed DOI to make a solution the same way, it smelled kinda like 2C-I but less obvious as the DOC - 2C-C similarity. Yeah it's pretty silly, I should REALLY buy or make some Marquis.
I got 2 other very small DOC samples on blotter, one of which was lab tested and shown to contain both DOC and DOB.

 

[treezy z]

i've tried this a couple times, it's cool but the duration is ROUGH, only take in the morning, also seen a couple freakouts by people on this shit.

 

[InterestingFACT]

No probably not, 4-FA works as a releaser of serotonin (and dopamine) and maybe has some reuptake inhibiting properties but DOC is an agonist for serotonergic receptors. That's different.

I just ingested 100 ug as an allergy test, I plan on trying a normal dose this weekend but am not sure yet how to plan it. Preferably I would like to not fuck up my sleep rhythm even more but instead support the rhythm even if I lose sleep over it.
So I was thinking taking about 1.8 (so around 2) mg at 10 pm this evening, that way I would trip all night but hopefully be able to sleep sunday night. I hope it won't be uncomfortable to be so speedy all night without being able to be as loud and active as during the day...

By the way I have powder which was weighed at 11.1 mg total, and I further measured it volumetrically after dissolving it in strong spirits. It really smelled like a cholinated compound, very similar to 2C-C so that reassures me a bit. I totally forgot who gave me this sample years ago, IIRC it was someone reliable enough. When I weighed DOI to make a solution the same way, it smelled kinda like 2C-I but less obvious as the DOC - 2C-C similarity. Yeah it's pretty silly, I should REALLY buy or make some Marquis.
I got 2 other very small DOC samples on blotter, one of which was lab tested and shown to contain both DOC and DOB.

Everyone may be different in terms of how long psychs keep them awake, but I would guess that you're practicing overkill here. Hopefully you have another stimulant, or at least something like caffeine or modafinil, to help you through the next day in case of an early crash.

Personally, it was somehow simultaneously stimulating and sedating during the comeup, and once I reached the plateau I was very awake, but could feel no sensation of physical stimulation. I would actually describe myself as being very relaxed at that point. Maybe something akin to taking l-theanine/drinking a lot of green tea after a very good night's rest.

When I dosed ~2mg, 1mg at 2pm and 1mg at 3pm, I was wide awake until ~5am (so 14-15 hours later), at which point I was tired but able to stay awake to finish watching a TV show, and then proceeded to dose another 1mg at 9am as a stimulant to keep me awake for the next day.

So all in all the duration is long, but I don't think it would be impossible to sleep if you wanted to, once you're past the 15 hours mark or so. And personally speaking I hate trying to stay awake when I'm tired.

Though I realize that it sounds like you probably pulled the trigger on this last night. How did it treat you?

 

[phatass]

Enjoying this atm, especially after a dose of 2C-E tha floored me.... it's pleasantly stimulating, and so far lightly visual, then again i have done quite a lot of psychs in the past 48 hours...

 

[MundaneDivinity]

This is probably my favorite psychedelic of all time thus far (I did not have the opportunity to experiment with much in the way of 2Cs, I am still ever hopeful that I will come across some 2C-B-FLY). The duration is perfect for me, whereas LSD seems just a little too short to really go very deep. For me, it provides a calm and fairly level headspace that is a bit of a bad trip deterrent, but that possibility definitely exists. I think the danger with this chemical is that it has the potential to take you very deep for a very long time. If you find yourself in over your head, 8-12 hours is a very long time to just sit it out and suck it up, even for an experienced psychonaut. Once you are familiar with the experience, it becomes fairly easy near the end of the peak to slip into a trance-like state that can serve as a mental reboot. If you have the psychological fortitude, you can just lay back with eyes closed and confront extremely detailed imagery of your worst fears. As long as you remain calm, this too will pass and you progress into a state of pure being, acceptance, and oneness.

I am eager to experiment with threshold doses of this material, as LSD has shown promise in such areas. with regards to day to day living. My first trials with this material in the 800ug range were rather uncomfortable, but such is often the case with threshold doses of new psychedelics. I am curious as to what more experienced users find to be a suitable functional dose.

 

[Bigazznugz]

This is probably my favorite psychedelic of all time thus far (I did not have the opportunity to experiment with much in the way of 2Cs, I am still ever hopeful that I will come across some 2C-B-FLY). The duration is perfect for me, whereas LSD seems just a little too short to really go very deep. For me, it provides a calm and fairly level headspace that is a bit of a bad trip deterrent, but that possibility definitely exists. I think the danger with this chemical is that it has the potential to take you very deep for a very long time. If you find yourself in over your head, 8-12 hours is a very long time to just sit it out and suck it up, even for an experienced psychonaut. Once you are familiar with the experience, it becomes fairly easy near the end of the peak to slip into a trance-like state that can serve as a mental reboot. If you have the psychological fortitude, you can just lay back with eyes closed and confront extremely detailed imagery of your worst fears. As long as you remain calm, this too will pass and you progress into a state of pure being, acceptance, and oneness.

I am eager to experiment with threshold doses of this material, as LSD has shown promise in such areas. with regards to day to day living. My first trials with this material in the 800ug range were rather uncomfortable, but such is often the case with threshold doses of new psychedelics. I am curious as to what more experienced users find to be a suitable functional dose.

800 ugs uncomfortable? I have never had that problem I have taken doses up to 3mgs with no uncomfortability. I do not like the mental aspects of this Chem. It is very easy to forget what you were doing our talking about in the middle of a sentence any distraction will make me forget the thought. The cev and oevs are beautiful but ill take LSD any day over this or boomers. There is no therapeutic aspects of this Chem witch sucks. But it is a grew festival rave scene type drug cuz you will not run out of energy. The amphetamine effect is very strong. In regards to your question I think 800ug is a great threshold dose. Peace