Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy Bromo-Dragonfly/DOB-Dragonfly Thread

[IGNVS]

yeah it fucked otis up too :/

 

[hamhurricane]

you seem to be one of the few people who has taken it multiple times with an exact awareness of their dose, please elaborate, did dob-dfly have any virtues?

 

[Erebus-]

yeah it fucked otis up too :/

oh, I get it.

 

[Mylo]

Well, what do you mean when you say "HPPD?"

My hppd consists of various different visual distortions, they are not constant but are very noticeable when they occur. Not suprisingly i find them very simular to the light visuals on the comedown of a dob-dfly trip. No i did not have a "bad" trip on any of my experiences, infact i found them all to be extremely neutral, with not much shift in emotion at all.

I think its safe to say i wont be doing dob-dfly again any time soon, as it seems the the risks far outweigh the benefits. But i will write up a trip report on my higher dose experience soon as tobala suggested if anybody is interested .

 

[tobala]

YEAH, baby!

Might I suggest a short summary of the difference in effects between, say, a 750 mcg experience and a 1,500 mcg one--maybe at the end of the high-dose TR you are planning? That would be awesum, d00d...

gratzi

 

[swilow]

I just got a sugar cube of DOB last week and am very wary to take it.
I think it's going to stay in my stash box for a fair while... Also worried as the guy said there's 1500 mcs on there but 2 drops enough for two people. I didn't think at the time to ask him whether he meant two doses of 1500mcs or 750 each.. *sigh*

Well, the compound in this thread is DOB-dragonfly, a moderation of the DOB molecule which seems to vastly change effects and potency. You should try to ascertain which you have by asking your supplier.

I haven't yet tried this one, and doubt I will. It seems too....crap? Perhaps thats the word I'm looking for. Maybe one day when I'm older and greyer....Plus I am wary of these reports of American and European versions- thats odd. Can anyone shed light on that?

 

[Xorkoth]

Merged in a thread about HPPD related to DOB-dragonfly

 

[fastandbulbous]

I forgot about the benzodifuran nucleus being a DNA intercalator (they fuck up the DNA transcriptase by causing a 'lump' in the DNA molecule so that the transcriptase enzyme is halted in its tracks).

For an analogy, imagine the benzodifuran as being a drop of superglue in a zipper representing the DNA double chain - zip will only unzip so far then is stopped. I think that's pretty much decided for me that I'll pass on this one & will just have to imagine its effects from others trip reports

 

[hugo24]

You mean the two double bonds (which aren't aromatic!) are of "good" distance to each other as to be able to alkylate together DNA parts?

Like Hexane, metabolized in human body to the diketon which then glues together histidine(?forgot which part) parts of the DNA.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow, now I am officially nervous about DOB-dragonfly. 8( I haven't tried it... I've never really been driven to either. I have 1mg of it... maybe I'll just keep it for interest.

 

[cegli]

I forgot about the benzodifuran nucleus being a DNA intercalator (they fuck up the DNA transcriptase by causing a 'lump' in the DNA molecule so that the transcriptase enzyme is halted in its tracks).

For an analogy, imagine the benzodifuran as being a drop of superglue in a zipper representing the DNA double chain - zip will only unzip so far then is stopped. I think that's pretty much decided for me that I'll pass on this one & will just have to imagine its effects from others trip reports

Sorry, bunch of questions here, but I found this really interesting.

I was trying to look up more about benzodifurans being DNA intercalators, but I couldn't find any DNA intercalators that had a benzodifuran nucleus in it. Does anyone have any links or anything with more information on this?

The benzodifuran part would flatten the molecule out (right?), which is one of the reasons it would be more potent, but flat molecules are more likely to be DNA intercalators. Tell me if anything I've said so far is wrong, haha.

If DOB-Dragonfly is in fact a DNA intercalator, it would then probably be a mutagen / possible carcinogen? I wonder if 500mcg to 1mg would really being enough to do anything?

The amount is so small, yet I guess there are a lot of molecules in there to interact with DNA, so who knows... If anyone has any answers to any of my questions I'd be much obliged. Thanks!

 

[hamhurricane]

would all fly, hemi-fly, and dragon-fly compounds have the capacity to cause DNA intercalation. I'm thinking of 2c-b-fly specifically. what benzodifurans have been demonstrated to have this property, and how far of a structural jump is it to dob-dfly?

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ only the fully aromatic nucleus ie the dragonflies. Things like 2C-B fly don't as the intercalation is dependant upon aromatic pi electrons being able to get inbetween the complimentary base pairs and interact with them

The benzodifuran part would flatten the molecule out (right?),

Yep any aromatic ring, or group of aromatic rings is is going to be totally planar & that's a very important factor in the SAR of 5HT2a agonists (LSD is almost planar due to the conjugated spi electrons from the indole nucleus right up to the carboxylic acid group (because one of the tautomers behaves like the enol form of a ketone) being like a backbone preventing any of the rings 'flipping) out of the plane (trying to form a boat or chair conformation

If DOB-Dragonfly is in fact a DNA intercalator, it would then probably be a mutagen / possible carcinogen?

Mostly inyercalators just stop the transcription of DNA to messenger RNA, which is eventually 'decoded' into a protein. In most cases it'd not be a problem unless it sits in the region that eventually becomes a protein used by the immune system or similar which detects & destroys pre-cancerous cells. Mutagens & carcinogens are more compounds that cause mistakes to be made in reproducing the DNA during cell division as that mistake is then transferred to any cell derived from that one original cell with the fucked up/incorrect reading base pair

 

[Riemann Zeta]

I don't think that a one-off dose of 750-1000 ug of bromo-dragonfly is going to produce a clinically-relevant suppression of DNA synthesis. But for anyone worried, there might be a bright side:

Viano et al (1985). Biological properties of benzodifuran derivatives. Drugs Exp Clin Res. 11: 865-7.

The antiviral activity and the effect on DNA synthesis of two benzodifuran compounds were studied. DNA and some RNA viruses were significantly inhibited by concentrations ranging from 15 to 30 nM/ml. The inhibition of DNA synthesis in host cells was obtained with concentrations higher than those inhibiting virus replication. A favourable ratio between antiviral activity and inhibition of DNA synthesis of the host cells is present in these compounds. This activity is substantially due to the ability of the compounds to complex with DNA.

 

[nuke]

I'm not sure I'd be too worried about the toxicity, after all the Shulgins had tried 2c-b-fly and not yet developed cancer (but maybe the 2c-b-dfly is more dangerous?). I think there's probably a lot more cancer causing compounds in barbequed food or cigarette smoke (but maybe we're unlucky and we'll all die of some weird cancer in a couple years). I tried 2c-b-fly years ago a couple of times and I'm still living cancer free.

 

[tobala]

Hmm...I've got green wings growing out of my neck...

 

[cegli]

I'm not sure I'd be too worried about the toxicity, after all the Shulgins had tried 2c-b-fly and not yet developed cancer (but maybe the 2c-b-dfly is more dangerous?). I think there's probably a lot more cancer causing compounds in barbequed food or cigarette smoke (but maybe we're unlucky and we'll all die of some weird cancer in a couple years). I tried 2c-b-fly years ago a couple of times and I'm still living cancer free.

Well, if I understand it right, 2c-b-fly isn't aromatic (like 2c-b-dfly or DOB-dfly) so it wouldn't be a possible DNA intercalator.

I agree that 1mg probably wouldn't even be close to a big deal. It's still interesting though, and something to take into consideration. I guess you never know what you're getting into when you take a unresearched compound.

Thanks for the reply Fastandbulbous. SAR is the stuff that made me get interested in the world of RCs, so that kind of information is always interesting to me.

 

[swilow]

Hmm...I've got green wings growing out of my neck...

Now that is rather unusual, do they have flight capacity, or are they just fluttery kinda pendanty things??

 

[tobala]

Fluttery. Chicks think I'm Todd Rundgren.

 

[swilow]

^Attach remote controlled rotor-blades to them; be careful of your throat, mind; and then zappo. A really annoying and odd neck extension, that has flight capacity (if your wings get tired, I guess....didn't think this one through methinks)