Say no to death
Greenlighter
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No doubt the situation arose because of the set and setting. My friend is fine. But the thing I don't understand is how I nearly had a heart attack.
Lysergamides The Big & Dandy Basic LSD Questions Thread - The Fourth Iteration
- Thread starter showtek
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Hi am a new member to this site so please redirect me if this is the wrong area.
In a few weeks time me and a few friends plan to go on a small boat trip down a river nearby as one of my friends owns a dinghy. There is a camp site a short while down the river where we will spend the night (we'll pitch our tents before dropping). My three friends planned to drop 160ug of LSD for their first time and me 300ug as I have tried acid several times before. What I am concerned about is whether the 300ug dose (I've only had up to 250ug) would have dissociative effects and cause any potential hazards as far as handling being in a raft is concerned. We will have a portable speaker which I don't intend to ruin and I feel partially responsible as am the only one who has tried psychedelics before, apart from one person who has had 2CB.
If anyone has any knowledge on the matter I would appreciate it
In a few weeks time me and a few friends plan to go on a small boat trip down a river nearby as one of my friends owns a dinghy. There is a camp site a short while down the river where we will spend the night (we'll pitch our tents before dropping). My three friends planned to drop 160ug of LSD for their first time and me 300ug as I have tried acid several times before. What I am concerned about is whether the 300ug dose (I've only had up to 250ug) would have dissociative effects and cause any potential hazards as far as handling being in a raft is concerned. We will have a portable speaker which I don't intend to ruin and I feel partially responsible as am the only one who has tried psychedelics before, apart from one person who has had 2CB.
If anyone has any knowledge on the matter I would appreciate it
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I assume you felt fairly capable on 250ug, or you wouldn't be asking if 300ug would be okay. There will definitely be a bit of an increase in strength over 250ug. It's really up to you... personally when I was early in my psychedelic taking days, I wouldn't have wanted to do something dangerous and skill-based on rafting. Nowadays I regularly go on dangerous river hikes where I climb waterfalls, on psychedelics. It's about what you know you can handle. I would recommend sticking to a dose you know especially since you haven't tripped too many times (sounds like from your post), even if it's 250ug, assuming you feel comfortable with how you'll be on that dose based on your previous experience.
Also, is this the same batch as your previous 250ug trip? I ask because dosages on blotters are notoriously hard to get accurate, they're usually quite a bit lower than advertised, and if it's a new batch, it could be that the batch you had "250ug" from was weaker than this batch, and you'd actually be taking a substantially higher dose if you go for 300ug, or even 250ug. But if it's the same batch you can be reasonably sure the blotters will be the same strength as what you had before.
Also, is this the same batch as your previous 250ug trip? I ask because dosages on blotters are notoriously hard to get accurate, they're usually quite a bit lower than advertised, and if it's a new batch, it could be that the batch you had "250ug" from was weaker than this batch, and you'd actually be taking a substantially higher dose if you go for 300ug, or even 250ug. But if it's the same batch you can be reasonably sure the blotters will be the same strength as what you had before.
Blue_Phlame
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I found a pretty good summary of psychedelic effects here: http://disregardeverythingisay.com/post/34000922763/lsd-broken-down-and-described
some people in this thread might find it useful in addition to https://psychonautwiki.org/
some people in this thread might find it useful in addition to https://psychonautwiki.org/
Solipsis
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I've dived into the water on a decent dose of LSD before (perhaps multiple times but one stood out) and it was very weird, at one moment I was able to use swim techniques that use counterintuitive movements that end up being extremely effective... but at another moment - pretty suddenly transitioning - I was flailing around like an absolute retard. It switched immensely once I started thinking about it consciously, being impressed initially.
Definitely raised a few eyebrows but I was able to just pull myself together. And myself out of the water.
I absolutely only tried this because it was a regular competition pool with lifeguards just in case. IIRC it was in the 150-200 µg range, but I always got my stuff lab tested mind you. Not like in most countries.
When you are going rafting you do not have a safety margin, you can't really afford to fuck up or at the very least it will be a bit of a dramatic ordeal for pretty much anyone if not a truly tragic one.
If your supposed 250 µg tells you this is okay you either tripped in settings that are totally misguiding your setting based tolerance, which will make a trip damn intense in unusual situations (like rafting!), or - as is likely - it was misadvertised and is actually weaker, or - quite rare - you have special hardheaded brain chemistry, or have heavy tolerance which shouldn't have made it such a surprise.
In any case, it's a terrible idea. If you want to incorporate adventures into your acid trips or vice versa make sure that you still survive in the worst case scenario. That can't be said about rafting.
Being able to handle 250 µg is not about dicksizing, that is ridiculous and sooner or later that way you will find out that while for some people LSD may take a bit more to completely pwn you than say mushrooms... it is hybris to think that you can master heavy doses. Serious doses affecting you that much is not weakness, it is normal.
Maybe some real freaks who trip absolute balls weekly can overcome part of this partially due to tolerance and a bit due to picking up survival skills... but those people would trip so much that they won't be asking about that on bluelight. And to be clear: even getting to that point will involve pushing your limit every time, it wouldn't happen casually.
Definitely raised a few eyebrows but I was able to just pull myself together. And myself out of the water.
I absolutely only tried this because it was a regular competition pool with lifeguards just in case. IIRC it was in the 150-200 µg range, but I always got my stuff lab tested mind you. Not like in most countries.
When you are going rafting you do not have a safety margin, you can't really afford to fuck up or at the very least it will be a bit of a dramatic ordeal for pretty much anyone if not a truly tragic one.
If your supposed 250 µg tells you this is okay you either tripped in settings that are totally misguiding your setting based tolerance, which will make a trip damn intense in unusual situations (like rafting!), or - as is likely - it was misadvertised and is actually weaker, or - quite rare - you have special hardheaded brain chemistry, or have heavy tolerance which shouldn't have made it such a surprise.
In any case, it's a terrible idea. If you want to incorporate adventures into your acid trips or vice versa make sure that you still survive in the worst case scenario. That can't be said about rafting.
Being able to handle 250 µg is not about dicksizing, that is ridiculous and sooner or later that way you will find out that while for some people LSD may take a bit more to completely pwn you than say mushrooms... it is hybris to think that you can master heavy doses. Serious doses affecting you that much is not weakness, it is normal.
Maybe some real freaks who trip absolute balls weekly can overcome part of this partially due to tolerance and a bit due to picking up survival skills... but those people would trip so much that they won't be asking about that on bluelight. And to be clear: even getting to that point will involve pushing your limit every time, it wouldn't happen casually.
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It generally tends to help not to get involved in potentially life threatening on a hallucinogenic drug.
Like even at 100ug, your motor skills start to jumble and you start entering "retard phase".
Its like alchohol in the sense of dont do dangerous shit drunk. Or another example dont drive tripping..
Even camping while tripping has its own crazy situations, i kinda think trying to go rafting will be way to difficult, you'll be lucky to get you items together and get into the raft better yet use your brain to make effective physical movements.
Not too mention anything over 120ug roughly starts impairing rational decisions. What is a terrible life threatening ordeal in reality can appear as fun and games on lsd.
People have jumped off buildings and shit on lsd :/
Sorry negative nelly here but uhh, i dont know about you other bluelighters but i feel like you cant really do an extreme amount during a trip other than deal with the mindstate. Even just the simplest shit becomes painfully hard.
Some of the hardest times ive had tripping are trying to do things with inanamite objects.. Mindfuck.
"Can you pass me the scissors bro?"
*looks at the scissors for 5-10 seconds, then hands you a ciggarette*
Fuck multiply that situation into rafting with friends.. Idk it just seems to be asking for trouble.
What is the gain too? Like what is it you wish to gain from this trip?
Knowledge or just "fun"?.
Everyone ive met who tripped "just for fun" nearly went delusional and will not trip anymore, and going as far as calling trips disgusting and psychotic, when really those are adjectives they are displaying through themselves.
For example, i will not trip if i dont think theres something i can learn from it. Whether that be a new art style or analysing my lifestyle in search for room for improvement.
I dont really think your rafting skills are going to get better
Sorry just dont want anybody drowning, then sending the rest of you into PTSD because lsd will take you there quickly if something REALLY fucked up happens.
Like even at 100ug, your motor skills start to jumble and you start entering "retard phase".
Its like alchohol in the sense of dont do dangerous shit drunk. Or another example dont drive tripping..
Even camping while tripping has its own crazy situations, i kinda think trying to go rafting will be way to difficult, you'll be lucky to get you items together and get into the raft better yet use your brain to make effective physical movements.
Not too mention anything over 120ug roughly starts impairing rational decisions. What is a terrible life threatening ordeal in reality can appear as fun and games on lsd.
People have jumped off buildings and shit on lsd :/
Sorry negative nelly here but uhh, i dont know about you other bluelighters but i feel like you cant really do an extreme amount during a trip other than deal with the mindstate. Even just the simplest shit becomes painfully hard.
Some of the hardest times ive had tripping are trying to do things with inanamite objects.. Mindfuck.
"Can you pass me the scissors bro?"
*looks at the scissors for 5-10 seconds, then hands you a ciggarette*
Fuck multiply that situation into rafting with friends.. Idk it just seems to be asking for trouble.
What is the gain too? Like what is it you wish to gain from this trip?
Knowledge or just "fun"?.
Everyone ive met who tripped "just for fun" nearly went delusional and will not trip anymore, and going as far as calling trips disgusting and psychotic, when really those are adjectives they are displaying through themselves.
For example, i will not trip if i dont think theres something i can learn from it. Whether that be a new art style or analysing my lifestyle in search for room for improvement.
I dont really think your rafting skills are going to get better
Sorry just dont want anybody drowning, then sending the rest of you into PTSD because lsd will take you there quickly if something REALLY fucked up happens.
SKL
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Solipsis is pretty much spot on in his longer answer to the question than mine (who's ambiguity was intentional so as to carry two meanings—you either aren't on 250 µg or aren't as functional as you think. The latter is very important. If you are accustomed to feeling functional in an operational/cognitive sense in a given setting, it is in fact possible to acclimate yourself to doing quite a variety of things under the influence (like having sex—for myself, most of my partners who've indulged, and in the cases of most people who I've spoken to, the first time fucking while tripping is initially awkward in terms of position, rhythm, etc. until instinct kicks in, and this is not even to mention male difficulties, but with some tripping-sex experience "under your belt" so to speak it comes more naturally and is pretty much uniformly mind blowing at least absent some possible negative mind-set, etc.)
Problems, or increased risks, however, happen as variables multiply and change. Things might be different with a different sexual partner, you might be too fucked up and disinhibited and do something inappropriate or regrettable (I've definitely decided "fuck it, forget about the condom" more than once while under the influence of one drug or another, condoms not being very easy to apparatus manage while tripping balls; I've also been to shows and suchlike and wound up with women I never would have if not under the influence, for better or for worse.) Or if you're interrupted in flagrante, you might not have the proper reaction causing awkwardness or worse (not exactly this but something like it came rather close to getting me killed around the winter of '08.)
Or let's talk about another activity a lot of us participate in, and usually, or at least statistically, more dangerous one. That's right, we're going to talk about driving, and the rest of this post is participant–observer sociology, not harm reduction:
Lots and lots of people drive while tripping on a few hits of acid, hopefully after the peak; I'm talking about serious acid users though, usually in the setting of driving back from a show. It's often not a "designated driver" situation but a "who's best at driving tripping" situation. I've ever even had my ride ask me to throw him a few tabs to straighten him up and keep him awake for the drive home. I did, everyone lived; I've been both passenger and driver on acid more times than I can count. Highway driving feels quite easy and with good music and scenery can actually be highly enjoyable. Town and city driving is less pleasant often going on terrifying as is driving on country roads especially in the dark, although again, some people seem to be fine.
I think most of us who have been in that lifestyle and drove have done this to one degree or another. Saying that it's outright dumb shouldn't even be necessary. The very tail end of an acid trip might be about as impairing as a few beers and a joint, and, just like beers and joints, experience, tolerance and other individual factors may apply. Uniformly, though, even in people who are pretty confident in their ability to operate a motor vehicle while tripping, the risk is more or less the same: unexpected events or stimuli. While LSD does not have a lot of effect on either gross or fine motor skills (strictly speaking), and often can actually enhance visual acuity and other perceptions, it can drastically alter our cognitive coördination of these, it's speed, facility, etc. Even on the highway experienced driving trippers might be in serious, deadly trouble if the car ahead suddenly throws on the breaks; they may very well swerve appropriately but may do so into an 18 wheeler. Concentration in the "keep your eye on the road and your hand behind the wheel" sense may be fine but situational awareness overall completely another matter. You can also be rocking out to music and be followed by the police with lights and sirens blazing for quite a while before you notice (learned that one the hard way.)
So yeah, you'll meet a bunch of people who'll even start to go on about man molding with machine (even more so on bikes) and driving as an extension of their own body, etc. It sure feels like that until something and jars you out of it and this thing is just you out of it might get killed.
This goes for swimming, boating, shooting, drug dealing, any activity where potentially dangerous situations can arise quickly. Don't let your confidence or experience level or confidence in your level of experience deceive you into thinking that you can handle whatever the world throws at you in those scenarios. You can't. You can't really even handle whatever sober. Tripping your mind is going to react unpredictably, focus unpredictably, possibly have trouble recognizing and reacting to crisis.
I've been robbed at knife point while on a large dose of acid, I was basically stunned and couldn't do much other than stare at the knife, I had trouble following directions so the other kid had to physically restrain me (by which time I was coming to realize the seriousness of my situation and just complied), search me, take my wallet and jewelery and drugs. I then had as bad as a trip as I've ever with a touch of PTSD; since then I've also overreacted to provocation while tripping and started beating someone and had him on the ground and probably would have killed him if I had not been restrained by people from my group. Still yet also I've saved I've saved lives more than once by giving Narcan, once even CPR and even starting an IV. I've mediated a brewing potentially dangerous and very unbalanced territorial fight by competing organizations during a festival, not saving lives but a lot of unpleasantness, drama and retraction, lost revenue, and s on. So too have I driven, made love, etc. And every example of something not to do above.
But I'd never rely on myself to be able to do so again. That's part of the power and unpredictability of the drug.
Problems, or increased risks, however, happen as variables multiply and change. Things might be different with a different sexual partner, you might be too fucked up and disinhibited and do something inappropriate or regrettable (I've definitely decided "fuck it, forget about the condom" more than once while under the influence of one drug or another, condoms not being very easy to apparatus manage while tripping balls; I've also been to shows and suchlike and wound up with women I never would have if not under the influence, for better or for worse.) Or if you're interrupted in flagrante, you might not have the proper reaction causing awkwardness or worse (not exactly this but something like it came rather close to getting me killed around the winter of '08.)
Or let's talk about another activity a lot of us participate in, and usually, or at least statistically, more dangerous one. That's right, we're going to talk about driving, and the rest of this post is participant–observer sociology, not harm reduction:
Lots and lots of people drive while tripping on a few hits of acid, hopefully after the peak; I'm talking about serious acid users though, usually in the setting of driving back from a show. It's often not a "designated driver" situation but a "who's best at driving tripping" situation. I've ever even had my ride ask me to throw him a few tabs to straighten him up and keep him awake for the drive home. I did, everyone lived; I've been both passenger and driver on acid more times than I can count. Highway driving feels quite easy and with good music and scenery can actually be highly enjoyable. Town and city driving is less pleasant often going on terrifying as is driving on country roads especially in the dark, although again, some people seem to be fine.
I think most of us who have been in that lifestyle and drove have done this to one degree or another. Saying that it's outright dumb shouldn't even be necessary. The very tail end of an acid trip might be about as impairing as a few beers and a joint, and, just like beers and joints, experience, tolerance and other individual factors may apply. Uniformly, though, even in people who are pretty confident in their ability to operate a motor vehicle while tripping, the risk is more or less the same: unexpected events or stimuli. While LSD does not have a lot of effect on either gross or fine motor skills (strictly speaking), and often can actually enhance visual acuity and other perceptions, it can drastically alter our cognitive coördination of these, it's speed, facility, etc. Even on the highway experienced driving trippers might be in serious, deadly trouble if the car ahead suddenly throws on the breaks; they may very well swerve appropriately but may do so into an 18 wheeler. Concentration in the "keep your eye on the road and your hand behind the wheel" sense may be fine but situational awareness overall completely another matter. You can also be rocking out to music and be followed by the police with lights and sirens blazing for quite a while before you notice (learned that one the hard way.)
So yeah, you'll meet a bunch of people who'll even start to go on about man molding with machine (even more so on bikes) and driving as an extension of their own body, etc. It sure feels like that until something and jars you out of it and this thing is just you out of it might get killed.
This goes for swimming, boating, shooting, drug dealing, any activity where potentially dangerous situations can arise quickly. Don't let your confidence or experience level or confidence in your level of experience deceive you into thinking that you can handle whatever the world throws at you in those scenarios. You can't. You can't really even handle whatever sober. Tripping your mind is going to react unpredictably, focus unpredictably, possibly have trouble recognizing and reacting to crisis.
I've been robbed at knife point while on a large dose of acid, I was basically stunned and couldn't do much other than stare at the knife, I had trouble following directions so the other kid had to physically restrain me (by which time I was coming to realize the seriousness of my situation and just complied), search me, take my wallet and jewelery and drugs. I then had as bad as a trip as I've ever with a touch of PTSD; since then I've also overreacted to provocation while tripping and started beating someone and had him on the ground and probably would have killed him if I had not been restrained by people from my group. Still yet also I've saved I've saved lives more than once by giving Narcan, once even CPR and even starting an IV. I've mediated a brewing potentially dangerous and very unbalanced territorial fight by competing organizations during a festival, not saving lives but a lot of unpleasantness, drama and retraction, lost revenue, and s on. So too have I driven, made love, etc. And every example of something not to do above.
But I'd never rely on myself to be able to do so again. That's part of the power and unpredictability of the drug.
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Img_9999
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Sounds like absolute hell. I once had a random stranger come and insist on walking along with me while I was hiking on acid. He then started talking non-stop about how that particular trail was pretty dangerous and how he's been mugged there before. He even said something along the lines "Don't trust anyone here, you never know who you are talking to. Sometime I've met friendly people here and the next second they pull out a gun. This is a dangerous place, don't take your life for granted. You never know when you will die". A few minutes latter he just took another road and walk away, but that event alone gave me a little bit of PTSD, I was constantly afraid of getting mugged and avoided hiking for a couple of months, It felt like I was brainwashed into paranoia ... can't imagine how actually getting robed, or being in any threatening situation while on acid would be like.
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SKL
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Yeah it was bad. Took some time to recover. I was new at the time, both to the drug, relatively, and to the game (where this sort of thing, let's me real, is an occupational hazard, even at hippie festivals if you're naïve and off your patch.) Luckily shortly thereafter I ran into some older friends of mine, who I didn't even know would be there, who watched out for me and eventually took me home, with the unexpected result of finding out that their house in town was just around the corner from my apartment in town (both of us split our time between town and country), and cementing a friendship and lucrative connection at the time. So I guess there's a silver lining, but while being in a fight or even getting beat down is one thing, getting a knife put to your throat when you're 17 or so is scary enough sober anyways yeah … another thing I took away from this episode was that I would never carry a handgun while on psychedelics, lest something like this happen, as I probably would have either killed or seriously damaged someone or had the same done to me for around $1k, not worth it by any calculus. I tried target shooting on acid once at our makeshift range by an old quarry with a bolt action .308 with scope, this was modestly successful, a lot of fun, and another occasion from my wayward youth in which I wonder what the fuck I was thinking and thank God nobody got killed or maimed. (((DON'T DO THIS!! —Harm Reduction Dep't.)))
anyways yeah … another thing I took away from this episode was that I would never carry a handgun while on psychedelics, lest something like this happen, as I probably would have either killed or seriously damaged someone or had the same done to me for around $1k, not worth it by any calculus. I tried target shooting on acid once at our makeshift range by an old quarry with a bolt action .308 with scope, this was modestly successful, a lot of fun, and another occasion from my wayward youth in which I wonder what the fuck I was thinking and thank God nobody got killed or maimed. (((DON'T DO THIS!! —Harm Reduction Dep't.)))
PsychaStevic
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I have a question for some more experienced users. I would consider myself mildly experienced as far as psychedelics goes. I've done acid 5 times, DMT just as many, Cubes twice. And many other silly substances back in the days of being broke in high school *cough cough* diphen. Anyways I find that when I do decide to trip I only actually trip about half the time, on any substance. For example, I took some LSD on a blotter today while on a mature bike ride and my heart started racing, got a burst of energy, pretty nice body high (noted I did smoke some decent bud while waiting to come up) but never really got any visuals or that overall trippy feeling of just being abnormal that I seem to usually get. I actually decided to hell with it and came home 2 and a half hours in perfectly competent and sat down and socialized with family. The weird part about this is it's the same Lucy I'd taken about 3 or 4 nights ago with a friend of mine and sat on her back porch in a world of visuals and euphoria. Why is it that some times I just cant trip. Or do you think because of the symptoms I did feel that maybe that particular blotter was just a 'weak' dose?
Bigazznugz
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Lol im always the designated lsd driver.
No joke it can be crazy when the highway tirns into liquid asphalt. With neon blue streaks coming out of where the tire marks are. That said dont try it at home. Call a uber or somthing guys
No joke it can be crazy when the highway tirns into liquid asphalt. With neon blue streaks coming out of where the tire marks are. That said dont try it at home. Call a uber or somthing guys
Img_9999
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Well well, this is then the answer to your problem. You have to wait at least a week to reset your tolerance. Waiting two weeks is more advisable. Waiting even longer is better, as it gives you time to integrate your experience. I have noticed that when I trip too often for an extended period my trip begin to feel less and less meaningful. Then if I take a three months break or so, the magic is back.
So your problem is tolerance. Wait two weeks and drop a blotter from the same batch. You should get back the visuals and euphoria.
PsychaStevic
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Driving on LSD is intense. For me it always seems like the first 5-10 feet in front of my car is unaffected so it serves as a guide, while everything after that is stretched and distorted.
In my case, availability. Also, given the choice, I would say start with shrooms because of the shorter duration. Regarding euphoria - I've had a lot of euphoria on shrooms.
ungelesene_bettlek
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