Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amanita Mushrooms Thread

[Black]

Oh, I thought ibotenic acid was quite bad for the liver. Would you attribute the nausea to toxicity or just an adverse effect of the active chemicals? Maybe even some bacteria present in the mushroom?

to be honest i have no idea. my guess would be an adverse effect of teh active chemicals (especially ibotenic acid as it gets much better after proper preparation).

 

[BJM]

Originally Posted by Mjäll
Oh, I thought ibotenic acid was quite bad for the liver. Would you attribute the nausea to toxicity or just an adverse effect of the active chemicals? Maybe even some bacteria present in the mushroom?

For me, psilocybe often goes hand in hand with alien beings trying to drill my brains out.

Amanita, makes my tummy sick. Pfft.

Perhaps there is something more to these dichotomies.. Pleasure and pain for instance?

It seems to me, that the only true path is one of moderation and balance. In my experience, using entheogens and their resultant experience stray far from the middle path.

 

[Amberthefrog]

here in the entheogen.com forum several people say that the sub-species formosa is more toxic than regular amanita muscaria.

Yep i think that is true, i'm not entirely sure why though.

A. pantherina contains a wider array of active and in some cases toxic alkaloids. I seem to recall that it also holds more muscarine.

I have no idea how toxic A. gemmata is, however it's supposed to be pretty active.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Amanita Gemmata is listed in Phillips (1990s edition) as being lethal.

That said, as far as I know it doesn't contain amatoxins, but its a pure white gilled/capped mushroom with a large ring and volva, when the flecks are washed off the top, it looks for all the world like the white morph of the death cap.

I wouldn't eat it anyway, as its quite a rare species and thus shouldn't be picked.

 

[Salviasca]

Hi

I have smoked Amanita once it was great, i felt connected and full of love, i also felt that sound was producing colours and Feelins and all was linked.

My tip is, to collect them and then dry and smoke them the smoke tastes quite neutral, so you can smoke quite much if you want to. About Dosage i cant say anything because i dont remember anymore.

bye Salviasca

 

[Amberthefrog]

Amanita Gemmata is listed in Phillips (1990s edition) as being lethal.

That said, as far as I know it doesn't contain amatoxins, but its a pure white gilled/capped mushroom with a large ring and volva, when the flecks are washed off the top, it looks for all the world like the white morph of the death cap.

I wouldn't eat it anyway, as its quite a rare species and thus shouldn't be picked.

I've read some guides that list A. muscaria, A. pantherina and various Clitocybes and Inocybes as lethal though. These mushrooms have all killed people, but only very rarely. That's sounds a bit stupid, 'it's not lethal because it doesn't kill often' but if you are to draw a line of distinction between dangerously poisonous and lethal (which most field guides do), you do need to make such a stance.

I believe there has been one documented death from A. Gemmata. That said obviously you are correct, and besides it being very rare the risk due to it's obscurity is too high to eat it.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Amanita muscaria contains muscarine, but only traces of it, unlikely enough to kill a healthy adult with moderate doses of the kind that would be ingested deliberately for recreational or spiritual reasons.

That said I recall a case of an italian diplomat who cooked up a plateful of fly agarics for breakfast, and died because of it.

Anything CAN be lethal, the dose maketh the poison, drink enough water and it'll kill ya.

The clitocybe and inocybe species especially though, DO contain more than enough muscarine to be lethal, and I.Patilouardii, I.Fasciata and a couple of others can and do kill people, as do Clitocybe Rivulosa and C.Dealbata which are often mistaken for edible Marasmius species, they all pack a fuckton of muscarine.

I wouldn't eat ANY inocybe species, they are mostly toxic, although a couple contain funky quaternary amine tryptamine derivatives, or psilocybin, theyre almost all small brownish nondescript mushrooms that are notorious as one of the most intractable families to identify without the aid of a microscope, a specialist guide and chemical reagent tests.

You eat the red stainer inocybe, and chances are, you will die, theres a HELL of a lot more muscarine than the traces in Amanita species.

I got a good haul of amanitas recently though, A.Muscaria, all nice, firm specimens which had yet to expand and get maggoty, which they do bloody quickly, now in the form of nice dry amanita chips, finishing off the drying over a tray of P2O5, I think I might dose those today, although I am a wee bit scared of em to be honest, perhaps with a lil DMT it should be fun :D

Could you reference the claim of a fatality from A.Gemmata per chance? I am most interested in mycology and toxicology, and am getting bored reading the same old stuff

It also looks like nastier amanitas by far, A.Gemmata that is, wash those flecks off, and leave it with just that prominent ring and volva, what does it look like to you some potentially useful members of that family look like the worst of the worst as far as suspects go, I happened upon what I am fairly sure was a load of A.Citrina (false death cap) the other day, but sure as hell I'm not going to pick them and run an extraction on em for the bufotenine content, as they really do look like death caps.

 

[Amberthefrog]

The clitocybe and inocybe species especially though, DO contain more than enough muscarine to be lethal, and I.Patilouardii, I.Fasciata and a couple of others can and do kill people, as do Clitocybe Rivulosa and C.Dealbata which are often mistaken for edible Marasmius species, they all pack a fuckton of muscarine.

I wouldn't eat ANY inocybe species, they are mostly toxic, although a couple contain funky quaternary amine tryptamine derivatives, or psilocybin, theyre almost all small brownish nondescript mushrooms that are notorious as one of the most intractable families to identify without the aid of a microscope, a specialist guide and chemical reagent tests.

You eat the red stainer inocybe, and chances are, you will die, theres a HELL of a lot more muscarine than the traces in Amanita species.

I know they have caused fatalities. I think you exaggerate a bit in the highlighted line though. A case of muscarine poisoning is unlikely to kill a healthy adult, if medical attention is received there is very little chance of death. The effects of muscarine poisoning don't cause direct organ damage, like amatoxins or orellanines.

Don't get me wrong muscarine poisoning is very bad and puts your life in danger, however the chance of it killing you are slim, though entirely possible. In terms of survival rates, I recall seeing the figure that 3% of those poisoned by muscarine who don't receive medical attention will die. This is opposed to 50% of those poisoned by amatoxins and 15% of those poisoned by orellanine. With medical assistance this drops much further, muscarine poisoning is one of the easiest types of mushroom poisoning for medial personal to treat.

Put it this way, if I was told at gun point to consume a meal of toxic fungi, I would pick a toxic inocybe over the deadly Amanitas (ones with amatoxins), Cortinarius, Galerina, Conocybe or Lepiota with out second thought.

I suppose it just comes down to definition though, it's obviously correct to label
say C. rivulosa as deadly, but equally you see field guides label it 'dangerously poisonous' and then label the various toxic Cortinarius, Galerina etc as 'deadly poisonous'. Anyway that's how the field guide I have always used goes about it, so I guess that’s just how I think about it.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

Yeah, you have a point there.

Although there are just as bad amanitas that don't contain amatoxins, theres a newly identified norleucine derivative in A.Smithiana and A.proxima that causes a nephrotoxic syndrome like orellanine, but far faster acting (abour 6-8 hours)

Personally I wouldn't eat anything in the genus Lepiota either, apart from the really big Macrolepiota parasol type species, and those really are worth munching assuming you can find them before anyone else does.

 

[colgonk]

Works fine. I smoked some skin/peel last night and got off in a most pleasant fashion. True, it's nothing whatsoever akin to a psilocybe trip but enjoyable and quite easy to handle (I only smoked a couple of pipes with not really that much in). It felt (to me) more comparable to mixing a number of substances, i.e: a miscellaneous kinda' stone. Nice though. Good for lounging at home with some weed and the music on. I'm just back from another little meander through the woods and have just dried (oven) a bag-full of caps which I've powered and set aside for a later date. 'Tis the season to be jolly, hey!

 

[randmanq]

Amanita 10x Powdered and Resin Extract?

Hello all, I was browsing on a trustworthy website and saw you could buy Amanita 10x Powdered Extract, or the resin.

My question to you guys is, is this worth it to buy? With the powdered extract, do I just sniff the powder? and do I smoke the resin extract? I'm confused about the routes of administration and I'm hoping someone can help me out before I order.

and also, is it worth it to order this stuff off the internet? I'd tell ya'll what website but I think its against the rules to do so?

Thanks everybody!

 

[randmanq]

also, is there any preparation needed with the extract or is it good to go?

 

[cegli]

The normal method is to eat the extract. We can't talk about specific sites like you said, but I've tried a bit of an extract like you said and it was very bizarre, though interesting. Mine was a gooey acetate. I don't know if I'd mess with snorting it. It's not a pure chemical compound, so that seems like a really bad idea for your sinus, plus who knows what it'll do drug effects wise.

No preparation is needed with the extract. I can't really tell you if it's worth it to buy. People seem to react to if very differently, plus there seems to be some debate over whether there is a difference between the many different locational types (syberian, washington, etc), and at what season they're picked. So who knows?

 

[lysergication]

finishing off the drying over a tray of P2O5

I though you need to heat (at +70C° at least) the Amanitas to transform the ibotenic acid into muscimol, am I wrong ?

The first reason i'm bumping this thread is to see if somebody have eventually tried the interesting datura/dramamine - A. muscaria combination proposed by hamhurricane :

Has anyone ever tried amanitas with a deleriant dose of dramamine, it seems like it could be the perfect combination. like ying and yang, counteracting each other negative effects while potentiating the psychedelic ones, this effect could also be achieved with datura but thats more risky. I know that a. muscaria was used to treat datura poisoning (or was it the other way around?) so i doubt the mixture is harmfull. Think about it one causes salivation, lacrimation, and mucus production, the other makes you dry as a bone, put the two togather and what do you get?

 

[Xorkoth]

Well, just a guess, I'd think they would cancel each other out then. Or whichever you took a more relatively potent dose of would come through, at a weaker level. It seems that would happen since amanitas can be used to treat datura poisoning.

I'[m curious to know, but at the same time, a bit afraid that some kids would read about it and be urged to experiment with datura. I remember a year or so ago when there was a thread about using datura spiritually and suddenly a bunch of kids started posting in the thread about how to best use it and I saw submitted Erowid reports about datura spike.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

atropine is used as antidote for muscarine, and vice-versa. but we all know that muscarine is only present in amanita muscaria in trace amounds.

 

[Aldousage]

I have a fruited datura plant in the backyard and few ounces of amanita caps in my fridge. While I am not condoning the use of either, I'm going to experiment with the two and return with results when available*.

I loathe to think that some kid might read this and think that he/she should, as a response to my words, eat a bunch of datura with no responsible sitter present and subsequently die. That said, discussion of a potential remedy for such an overdose could be beneficial enough to make free speech - in this instance at least - worthwhile.

Does Marilyn Manson cause young people to commit suicide? Quite possibly, I think. Or, to be more literally honest, the lyrics in some of his songs could contribute to pre-existing feelings of depression and hopelessness. Should Marilyn Manson's music thus be banned? I like to think that by this century, most of us here believe that doing so would be fundamentally immoral. Should such subversive material bear a warning label? Maybe. I certainly always make it clear that I'm not intentionally promoting the use of datura when I write about it.

Peacelove,
Aldousage

*unless I die

 

[cegli]

Don't die and I will be very interested in the results of your experiment, though I definitely will not be repeating them! I'll leave the datura to the shamans, haha.

 

[swilow]

atropine is used as antidote for muscarine, and vice-versa. but we all know that muscarine is only present in amanita muscaria in trace amounds.

Well, the amount varies widely, and often there is more then enough muscarine in 10-20grams of amanita muscaria to have muscarinic effects.

Aldous- good for you . I think thats an utterly stupid idea, but seeing as you have some odd thing for datura and wanting to talk about it, maybe you should just do it and then realise why I have said, again and again, this stuff is not worth playing with, is not a psychedelic, is unbelievably dangerous (when compared with, say, 1.5mgs of LSD) and talking about it is obviously a sign of naivety- you clearly cannot see what harm that poses, which is very near sighted. Personally, I am not at all interested in the results of your experiemnt, as its foolish and dangerous- its not at all scientific or controlled- you can never known what doses of what you are taking; its these sort of things that give psychedelic drugs a bad reputation and make our recreational activities illegal. I hope you think twice about this; but if you do it, remember that this is a PSYCHEDELIC (not deleriant!!!) forum, and as such, talking about it is offtopic.

Don't be afraid either, I won't start sending you "weird messages" for you to announce to the world....8) See, I wonder if when we talk about "kids" reading these posts, whether your not one yourself....?

 

[Aldousage]

I didn't bring it up. I was speaking to what Xorkoth added to the topic.

I'm sorry that you're so angry with me. I don't want to write an equally angry and insulting response to your post, because I would much rather we let this dispute rest now. As I asked you in pm: Please stop posting adversarial and insulting things about/to me. I want to continue enjoying this site, just like anyone else. Please allow me to do so.

Thanks,
Aldousage