Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy Allylescaline Thread

[any major dude]

Sounds about right to me. Was thinking it seemed roughly equipotent with 2c-c the day after my experience with it. Curious as to whether the hangover will increase with dose.

 

[Help?!?!]

Don't get exaggerated ideas about the nausea, my trip partner so far had to throw up on everything, egg salad included.

I don't do IM or plugging, although I'm not oblivious to the advantages those ROA's offer but decided to refrain from utilizing them at some point. I have patience enough to wait through the comeup and it's part of my ritual in a sense, I don't need to insta-trip.

The last mild/gentle/light compound I explored was BOD, which I found a lot more interesting and enjoyable but that's perhaps entirely attributable to the unreasonably high expectations I had for the performance of a mescaline analogue.

Your greatly confused old friend! Ask psood, I know hes discovered, IM'ing and plugging(though to a much lesser extent) provide states, especially with tryps or diss's(even phens really though I haven't tried as much with them) that are totally unique. Its weirdly hard to describe but after IM'ing a strong dose of DPT I finally understood how oddly unique the state of IM psychedelics is(I got a strong taste once with IM DMT but...). 4-subs go oh so well with it. Its so much more about the insta trip, which BTW IMO it is not, IV maybe but IM'ing or even plugging most things takes atleast 5 minutes before an alert or two show and about 10ish before your under much of a gauntlet. Believe me its some weird shit, I don't even like needles, been way to much of a pussy to IV myself, IM'ing I can manage but I hate it, but can't occasionally(once every couple weeks/every few exps, so notice I don't do it to often, plus I don't like having pin cushion thighs/give 'em time to recoup)return to that state. One further thing, IM psyches have such a perfect duration and even ride, its like you easily transition from A to B like sliding on perfectly formed ice than glide back down. I used to love the come up's as well(would have claimed to it was apart of my experience! In fact I have old BL posts about that shit... ha), but after a few hundred under my belt and times a changin' for me it wasn't as rational anymore. Its really good to hear though about the nausea, only reason i'm iffy is mescaline is one of the only psychedelics that I can fast on and take a fair dose of and still have a chance to puke, so I figured this may be in line but i'll just forget about that! As for plugging, anyone whos eaten 2c-B and than later tried plugging 2c-B will get it as well, haha! Oh and I would have to think as well, that it was your excitement that lead to higher expectations, i've had more than enough mecscaline experiments for one man to ever wish for, yet I know if I had the chance to try a potent closely related chemical that I would not only be excited but my expectations would be astronomic. Thinking of that i'm fairly glad I didn't get any AL right away, I probably would have definitely enjoyed the trip but still been disappointed by its apparent lack of "depth" or ability to "take someone somewhere".

Well, maybe it was a little arrogant of me using the word clueless, sorry, but it's just that for me MDMA is a empathogen, entactogen and stimulant. AL is a pure psychedelic, so I think there's really no comparison at all, except that at a low dose, both AL and MDMA's effects are kind of hard to put a finger on or describe.

Completely my experience too, except I staggered my dose (took 20 mg extra after 2.5-3 hours).
I didn't really get any nausea, as such, it was more like the butterflie's in the stomach feeling, more like an uneasiness. And yeah, the come up is so gradual that it's really nice actually, I dont see any reason to want to shorten it, unless your short on time of cause.

I think insufflation/plugging could work quite well with this one, but actually don't see a reason to do it, and it might be dangerous, who knows

Hmm, do you have a reason for this or are you just being cautiously natured? I've never noticed one ROA(except maybe IM for certain things that don't do muscle tissue well...)cause issue whilst another is good besides IV and thats usually for other substances. I would just make sure to let everyone know the obvious, cut the dose down majorly when plugging/IM'ing! I also feel you on the MDMA, I guess I just let class boundaries go long ago, just because something is classified as by a certain name, does not mean another chemical not under the same classification can have similar qualities. I just wouldn't cross the line of say purely claiming Mesc to be an empath or vice versa with MDMA and psychedelia. Just silly to bother with those sort of things in my mind, also is a bit negative usually so I avoid that as well!

I wonder about insufflation to, its just I rarely travel that route since 99% of psychedelics play not nicely with nasal tissue. If someone is on their second trial maybe they could halve their dose and try to insuff it just to see how probable/effective it is? I would tell someone to try a bump during but its hard to judge how effective those are for some people(always been pretty ineffective with phens as well)!

 

[Incunabula]

Hmm, do you have a reason for this or are you just being cautiously natured? I've never noticed one ROA(except maybe IM for certain things that don't do muscle tissue well...)cause issue whilst another is good besides IV and thats usually for other substances. I would just make sure to let everyone know the obvious, cut the dose down majorly when plugging/IM'ing!

^^ No, I don't really have any reasons for saying it might be dangerous. I was mostly thinking of insufflation and the 2ct7 deaths that occured. I didn't have any qualms snorting Metocin right of from the begining, but it just feels so safe and natural. I don't know about AL, I think caution is wise when it comes to insufflating it, keep doses low and don't mix with other compounds, but what do I know 8)
Plugging it might be more interesting than I first thought. You're getting me all curious about that ROA, might have to try it. Which phens or trypts are great for plugging?

 

[IamMe90]

2c-x and mdma are particularly great for plugging, although I tend to prefer not plugging MDMA so as to not attenuate its duration. 2c-b specifically is amazing plugged, the intensity is right around insufflated intensity but the come up is SO SMOOTH AND CLEAN it's just incredible. I can take twice the dose of 2c-b that would make me puke snorted via plugging and not feel nauseous at all. Plugging other 2c-x so far have not cut down on nausea but significantly reduced the come up time. I hear plugging 2c-c is fantastic but I haven't tried this myself yet.

 

[agnetha]

Ok, seems like I have to rethink my habits in this respect. I never had any qualms about plugging, neck&wash ist just second nature at this point and I do have an iron stomach (the only time I ever had to throw up on a psych was a couple hours into a horrible OD episode). Now IM poses a somewhat bigger psychological hurdle, but the bit about help?!? rediscovering DPT caught my interest. I just hate the awful drip/taste, the clogged nose, all of it. It's one of the most interesting trypts and I'm too disgusted to take it, haha. IM would resolve that problem at least. Hm, but I'm in no hurry to pick up IMing (or plugging for that matter), I have quite a lot of stuff on my to-do list, chemicals I never got round to taste up to this point. I hope to eliminate most items this summer, and will stick to oral dosing with compounds I'm not familiar with for obvious safety related reasons (I rather be able to relate what's happening to prior experiences, which is out of the window the second I switch ROA).

 

[Help?!?!]

Ok, seems like I have to rethink my habits in this respect. I never had any qualms about plugging, neck&wash ist just second nature at this point and I do have an iron stomach (the only time I ever had to throw up on a psych was a couple hours into a horrible OD episode). Now IM poses a somewhat bigger psychological hurdle, but the bit about help?!? rediscovering DPT caught my interest. I just hate the awful drip/taste, the clogged nose, all of it. It's one of the most interesting trypts and I'm too disgusted to take it, haha. IM would resolve that problem at least. Hm, but I'm in no hurry to pick up IMing (or plugging for that matter), I have quite a lot of stuff on my to-do list, chemicals I never got round to taste up to this point. I hope to eliminate most items this summer, and will stick to oral dosing with compounds I'm not familiar with for obvious safety related reasons (I rather be able to relate what's happening to prior experiences, which is out of the window the second I switch ROA).

You hit right where I was, I hated(not really but its damn annoying, like DPT doesn't burn much but has a bitch drip that is hard to mediate/etc), also like I stated, DPT is weird IM. It reminds me of how nasal ketamine is like being quickly covered from behind by a plush blanket and slowly laid down, where as IM ket is like being placed into a barrel and thrown off Niagara Falls IMO. IM takes a second to hit, but once it does it seems to rip you away infinitely. IM or plugged DPT has a different "frequency" I would like to say about it, its essentially the same but the transition is so smooth/quick, its so enticing. Your just laid nicely into this state that to me is like the perfect mixture of 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, not exactly but like someone took certain pieces of each, of varying intensity and combined them, thats what DPT has always reminded me of in a sense, but then it has its own wonder. At this day I like it as much as DMT and find it nearly as worthy a tool, its hard for me to say because of the true oddness of the Earth shattering vaped DMT but..considering if I could I would IM DMT all day. Either way though IM and plugging are much more than "ways to avoid nausea or the long come up", they provide states that while essentially the same, have their own unique flavor which other ROA's just cannot match. I knew someone would come in and talk about plugged 2c-B, its another one thats weird. I doubt i'll ever dose 2c-b orally again, atleast to start the experience. 2c-B is one of the few things I would actually really hesitate to snort as well, so many things in my nose but 2c-B was a bit beyond irritating. The first time I tried plugging it i'm pretty sure I used a sub par dose on another psychedelic and I had to remain seated for awhile while the "rush" took hold(obviously nicely mixed in but I could tell that the B was really working its magic). IMO your holding on way to hard, once you try it out a couple of times you see that its actually pretty easy to equate experiences even between ROA, I know most times people have realistic numbers but for psyches, all we have is "Bro just halve the dose!" as a starting point, I mean sure its super scientific and all. See what i'm getting at(if you don't its the fact we don't have set numbers but people can still equate it out though maybe not terribly accurate)? I know you, your not inexperienced and I know you would easily be able to compare an oral trip between any other ROA and your simply convincing yourself that your first ROA needs to be oral(yes, oral gives a grander baseline technically but you also have high expectations of doing many substances this summer which takes time to do orally, there is no reason not to experiment between ROA IMO when there is no information on any dangers or perceived ones just start low, I remember years ago I could usually find at least one obscure report of someone IM'ing not to mention a lot of people plug...). Safety is great and is always a first line concern but when you create needless concern, well its needless and is simply anxiety. I agree with Fag on the front that we probably should put a disclaimer for those wanting to insuff AL being the first go but thats because theirs no existing information and I don't feel safe enough in chem knowledge or even near so to claim anything about AL, really if you don't know indepth chemistry or have a real reason to fear, don't do it or else you'll start to monger! Thats to easy in this community and before not you'll have rumors flying between the even the middle level users at times. We should probably just use disclaimer's to make sure people know we just don't know and simply have their safety in mind. Gotta be careful how we approach IMO. Lastly if your terribly worried about changing your ROA(I still can't figure it out..do you have some untested goodies that you should fear or something? ;P)go for small doses. Only plug/IM 2-5 mgs of 2c-b or whatever it is your doing. One thing I also will note that I didn't is that I can actually tolerate low dose psyches via the IM route, maybe even plugging but haven't really tried with that. Orally I wouldn't take most phens in low doses if you paid me, just uncomfortable. My favorite thing has to be the fact it works so well to because I think your also confused because I rarely if ever start out my experiences plugging or IM'ing unless its something like 2c-B. I'll take a higher oral dose first and than hours later mix in the IM or plugged shots. It helps negate any tolerance formed and I like it better than bumping things. It also allows for long term experience on short terms psychedelics a much more possible thing. Everytime I prep my needles, throughout the micron filtering and it all, i'm sitting there like "Its all good, you've done this many times before." and shit like that, I really don't like IM'ing things but like stated, that state you enter. Oh and Fag, my favorite way to use 4-HO-MET besides plugged or IM is definitely insuff. Its perfect for small bumps, for me 12-14 mgs orally is a full go experience so I bump 3-6mgs and i'm in a good place, works great if I want to take a hike or something but don't feel like eating/prepping anything!

Either way though at the end of the day, the only reason i'm even bringing up the ROA's is just the high cost per dose for AL right now. I'm fairly certain with the dose coupled with the reports being laid back things will lower but for now eating 50 mgs is pretty non-feasible for me! Really though I would love to see someone take it to the 60-75mgs level, as I just can't tell if it will ramp up, people feel like it won't but to me Mescaline kinda feels the same way until a certain dose. Hopefully we'll see soon enough. Also, I don't know if its been established yet but everyone who had a hangover was sure they were hydrated, nicely feed, and all that? I know sometimes on lower doses it can be oddly distracting and you can forget to drink or eat for awhile but considering so many people clearly listed a hangover its probably a bit more than that but a man can hope!

 

[zn13bt]

I wonder why the dosages here are so far off from PIHKAL? I know Shulgin tends to lowball them, but he's not usually off by a factor of 2. A bad synth going around maybe?

 

[Incunabula]

AL, really if you don't know indepth chemistry or have a real reason to fear, don't do it or else you'll start to monger! Thats to easy in this community and before not you'll have rumors flying between the even the middle level users at times. We should probably just use disclaimer's to make sure people know we just don't know and simply have their safety in mind. Gotta be careful how we approach IMO.

Very true what you say there.
I have no basis what so ever for being so overly catious about snorting AL. Actually, it probably would be fine to snort something like 20-30 mg, I just think it would be unwise to do it while on 150 mg of MDMA and a handfull of ephedrine or something like that. Absolutely nothing is known about AL's pharmacology. It's a true research chemical, in every sense of the word, and it being available the way it is might make some people forget that.


About the hangover, it's true that the night before I hadn't slept much, only a couple of hours. And yeah, I certainly didn't eat as much, or drink as much liquid these 2 days as I normaly would. So that certainly worsened it. Actually hangover is kind of a wrong word, it wasn't really uncomfortable, it was just mostly being very tired. I think in time I could even learn to enjoy it. just be sure you have the day after free to lounge.

I wonder why the dosages here are so far off from PIHKAL? I know Shulgin tends to lowball them, but he's not usually off by a factor of 2. A bad synth going around maybe?

No, the stuff's that's currently available is the real deal. It's also been tested and results posted publicly. But I've been wondering the same, why didn't Shulgin (or his test subjects) push this one further?
In pihkal it's like he concludes that " The material seemed wholly social in nature. No visual, auditory or olfactory sharpening was in evidence." (35 mg) and then just decides to leave it with that.
I must say that with 50 mg I did experience visual and mental effects with AL , so I think it's just a case of Shulgin having had so many different possible compounds to test that he never really had the time. It's not the first time he's a bit off Maybe he synthed a couple of grams, and the test group never got higher with the doses before they ran out of it, and then moved on.

 

[IamMe90]

Very true what you say there.
I have no basis what so ever for being so overly catious about snorting AL. Actually, it probably would be fine to snort something like 20-30 mg, I just think it would be unwise to do it while on 150 mg of MDMA and a handfull of ephedrine or something like that. Absolutely nothing is known about AL's pharmacology. It's a true research chemical, in every sense of the word, and it being available the way it is might make some people forget that.

I wouldn't say nothing about the pharmacology is known, only in a pedantic sense in that we don't know anything about the pharmacology with certainty. It's structurally a very close analogue of mescaline with effects that seem to be in some sense subjectively akin to mescaline and so I think we can draw from that quite a bit about its pharmacology.

 

[Incunabula]

Yes, I see what you mean. We now it's psychedelic, that it probably hits 5-ht2-a/b/c. From then on we know close to nothing. I mean, it's not that close to mescaline in effects. it's just reminiscent of Mescaline. It definitely is doing something very different. It's not like some of the other mescaline analogues that are supposed to be very close to mescaline in effect.

"Some" studies have been made on most of the common RC's, but non has ever been done on AL, as far as I know. not even drug discrimination animal studies or what ever the various forms of animal tests are called.

 

[PsychedelicDoctor]

...nausea...???

 

[zn13bt]

I'm on 50mg right now, an hour after taking it in two parts an hour apart. I also took half a Unisom with the first dose to help ward off any nausea or anxiety. As I was taking the second dose I noticed some tingly sensations and some eerie sense that things were a little different. For the first half hour after the second dose the tinglyness got stronger and also started feeling a tightness in my gut, not really nausea but it felt like it could go that way. The tingles reminded me of the two times I've tried a San Pedro extract. The second half hour the tingles got stronger along with the almost-but-not-quite-nausea feeling in the belly. Now I'm sitting here feeling like I'm bathed in light coming from everywhere, and wherever I look at the white walls in my room or the white spaces on this page I see swirling bands of bluish green tinged with magenta. I've been in a really good mood for the past hour, but also there's this nagging feeling that I should be doing something more productive with my time right now...? I'm also remembering that the last time I took San Pedro, it was chilly and kind of rainy outside and I was instructed that I would have a better experience if I save the next time for when the weather is nicer and it's bright and sunny out, because that's the kind of weather cactuses like. And here I am today, taking a mescaline analogue and it's damp and rainy again. Lo siento, Saint Peter, perdóname por favor...

 

[Incunabula]

Maybe take a walk in the rain?

 

[zn13bt]

Excellent idea, Fagott! The nausea suddenly got a lot worse after I posted that, but some more antihistamines, Pepto-Bismol, and a good belly laugh* fixed that right up. Just got back from a walk outside, where at least it's not raining anymore but it's still pretty humid. Couldn't tell if I was too hot or too cold the whole time, but I'm too something, that's for sure.

* About something I read this morning, a quote from Jed McKenna: "Why am I not killing myself right now?" What a funny question to ask...

 

[any major dude]

Sounds fairly interesting Any post trip retrospectives you'd like to share zn13bt? I'm thinking about taking a dose in the 50-60mg range next myself. Though i'll probably pick up a bit more before so i can take it with some friends. @42mg I got the distinct impression that it would benefit from a group setting.

 

[evokatroid]

My girlfriend and I dosed roughly 30mg about a month ago. I honestly just don't remember whether I took 25 or 30 mg, but I scaled it precisely. It began with a strange and pronounced tingling in the stomach (for both of us, and as someone else mentioned in a previous post), and slowly progressed into a warm body high and mild euphoria. I found it to have little "psychedelic" effect and it reminded me more of something like MDA (although not nearly as intense). There was mild euphoria and a relaxed body sensation, but MDA like closed eye visuals and patterning. I also noticed while going through my phone that the lights were reminiscent of the visual change observed from taking molly in the past. We had intercourse on it, which was fantastic, however afterwards we both felt extremely hot to the point of discomfort. We spent about an hour sitting in front of a fan sweating and trying to relax. I attempted to sleep on it, but had annoying and disturbing, demonic closed eye visuals (perhaps from slaying demons in Diablo 3 for a few hours...). This did not really cause any sort of psychological discomfort, but I was forced to keep my eyes open and watch TV for an hour or two before being able to finally fall asleep. The next day I didn't experience any notable hangover, and no after effects have been noted since. I should note that I have never done mescaline, only 2Cs as far as phenethylamines go, so I can't really compare it to mescaline, but it was certainly nothing like any 2C I've done.

edit: As a last thought, I'm not really sure if I'd be interested in doing it again as I didn't find it particularly enjoyable compared to other substances, but I still have some left so perhaps I'll try a slightly higher dose in the future to see if anything more interesting occurs.

edit 2: I'd also like to say, as I've seen a few people complain about the comparisons to MDMA, that I do not mean to imply this drug was overly similar to MDA or MDMA. Like I said, I have never done mescaline. For that reason, my only real frame of reference for comparison would be MDA/MDMA (again it is nothing like any 2C that I have done). I found the affects to be very tactile in nature, but with a vague "trippiness" with eyes open. Furthermore, the CEVs really did clearly remind me of the CEVs from MDA. Orgasm on AL felt extremely similar to orgasm on MDA as well. I do not mean to hype this drug up as some new alternative to MDA or MDMA, only to try to make a comparison to make my report more clear, as describing these kinds of experiences is very difficult as I'm sure you all know. In conclusion, go into an AL experience expecting AL, but don't be surprised if you notice and feel that some of its effects are comparable to a mild MDA experience, albeit different. I'm sure for those who have done mescaline, comparisons might be drawn with that instead. So yeah, take my comparison with a grain of salt if you want, it's just my report!

 

[evokatroid]

I'm still waiting on a rather slow pre-order myself. I'm wondering if anyone has tried insufflating it and if it burns and also if it's more effective.

I took a very small bump to test it out before consuming my full dose, and I did not feel that it burned very badly. Mind you, I didn't rail a line or anything so I couldn't comment on that.

 

[zn13bt]

Sounds fairly interesting Any post trip retrospectives you'd like to share zn13bt? I'm thinking about taking a dose in the 50-60mg range next myself. Though i'll probably pick up a bit more before so i can take it with some friends. @42mg I got the distinct impression that it would benefit from a group setting.

Well, I spent the rest of the day in a good mood and feeling like I was bathed in light, but also coping with a nasty churning in my gut that wouldn't go away. Also had a couple bouts of diarrhea. I never felt like throwing up, it was mainly lower down in the intestines. It was pretty frustrating and kept me from really getting comfortable the whole time. Also I would go from being too hot to too cold and then back again in the space of a few minutes, that was pretty annoying too. I had to keep getting up and turning the air conditioner up or down, and when I was walking outside I kept putting my jacket on and then taking it off again a minute later. Then the next couple of days I felt pretty burned-out, like I was getting over the flu. In retrospect maybe I should've stuck with my original plan of only doing 30mg or so.

I forgot to mention too that I took some antacid about 20 minutes before my two doses. That helps with absorption of other phenethylamines so I figured it wouldn't hurt to try it with this one too. But maybe I took too much and it contributed to the nausea...? I think this one has a lot of potential, if you can get around the body load. I am going to try it again, maybe only 40mg or so divided in three doses without any antacid, hopefully that won't hit quite as hard.

 

[zn13bt]

I should note that I have never done mescaline, only 2Cs as far as phenethylamines go, so I can't really compare it to mescaline, but it was certainly nothing like any 2C I've done.

I agree, it's not much like any of the 2C's at all. The body tingles, positive mood, and churning in the gut were a lot like the San Pedro extracts I've done. I didn't get any kind of entity contact, but it was only my first time, and sometimes those don't happen until you've taken something a few times and gotten to know it (and it's gotten to know you ). I think people compare mescaline to MDMA?MDA because the body tingles are similar between the two, and allylescaline seems to share that as well.

 

[Dmytry]

I wouldn't say nothing about the pharmacology is known, only in a pedantic sense in that we don't know anything about the pharmacology with certainty. It's structurally a very close analogue of mescaline with effects that seem to be in some sense subjectively akin to mescaline and so I think we can draw from that quite a bit about its pharmacology.

this compound is structurally similar to, but still nothing like mescaline, due to the allyl chain at the 4 position. think back to 5-MeO-DALT: kind of like 5-MeO-DMT, except that it wasnt. at all. with the allyl groups on 5-MeO-DALT it didnt get interesting until about 75mg, when it started to get pretty rough on the body. this compound is probably very similar due to the allyl group. AND we still have no idea about the pharmacology of 5-MeO-DALT, let alone any allyl 4-subbed PEA