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The Big & Dandy 4-HO-MET Thread - Part 2

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p-helix said:
Wouldn't mixing Venlafaxine with any phenethylamine or tryptamine like 4-HO-MET put you at risk of serotonin syndrome? 8(
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How? Do 4-sub tryptamines do anything other than agonize sert receptors? You get in trouble with psychs/drugs that aren't purative serotonin agonists. Elevated levels of serotonin on 4-subs blunt the effects since more serotonin is there to compete with the 4-sub at binding to the receptor.

Phenethylamines, often are not just serotonin agonists (w/ phen psychedelics), and thats why they are more risky to combine with ssri's/snri's.

The real risk with ssri/snri combos is taking them with stuff that interferes with serotonin/norephinepherine release and re-uptake. 4 substituted tryptamines like 4-ho-met don't do that.
 
@p-helix: No, not at all. Combining SSRIs with MAOI's , yes, but not seroronin agonist psychedelics. Even serotonin releasers like MDMA are relatively safe in combo with these so-called "medications".
 
'The development of a potentially life-threatening serotonin syndrome (also more recently classified as "serotonin toxicity") may occur with venlafaxine treatment, particularly with concomitant use of serotonergic drugs, including but not limited to SSRI and SNRIs, many hallucinogens such as tryptamines and phenethylamines (LSD/LSA, DMT, MDMA, MDPV, mescaline for example), dextromethorphan (DXM)/dextrorphan (DXO), tramadol, tapentadol, meperidine/pethidine and triptans and with drugs that impair metabolism of serotonin (including MAOIs).'

This is from the Wikipedia entry for Venlafaxine, in consideration of which I thought it best in my previous post to query the advisability of combining with 4-HO-MET. Are 4-substituted tryptamines exceptional? Further information appreciated, thank you.
 
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^I spent about 8 years on the stuff before quitting cold-turkey last year, and I can absolutely tell you without a shadow of a doubt that there is no risk of serotonin syndrome when combining venlafaxine with most* tryptamine and phenethylamine psychedelics. *See below. (Including the ones you mentioned - LSD/LSA, DMT, MDMA, and Mescaline. This also goes for mushrooms, and the other 4-subtituted tryptamines)

It doesn't make any sense pharmacologically. In order to precipitate serotonin syndrome, there needs to be an uncontrolled build up of serotonin in the synapses. Most psychedelics do not increase levels of serotonin. Even the ones which do cause serotonin release are not problematic in this regard, because serotonin efflux is mutually exclusive with re-uptake inhibition. The two in combo won't cause serotonin syndrome. Only the psychedelics which have appreciable MAOI action have the potential to cause serotonin syndrome. aMT is one of them, and should definitely not be taken with any SSRI/SNRI drug such as venlafaxine.

2C-T-2 and 2C-T-7 are said to have MAOI action, but even then I have taken massive doses of 2C-T-2 many times and suffered no ill effects. aMT is one to watch out for because it is a proven MAOI, and it also effluxes massive amounts of serotonin. Don't take DXM or tramadol either. Don't use ayahuasca either. Be careful with 5-MeO-MiPT.

The 4-subbed tryptamines are actually probably the safest out of the whole bunch of psychedelic compounds we have available. I would feel much safer combining a 4-substituted tryptamine with another serotonergic compound than with any other class of serotonergic psychedelic.

I think we should have a sticky at the top of the forum with drug combos in this class which are contraindicated.
 
Rectal is quite a lot stronger than oral, but I couldn't tell how much. My experience was that a rectal dose about 1.5-2 hours after an oral dose bought me up to a much stronger peak very quickly, which was expected (as with other psychedelics). The effects are the same, just that they come on very intensely in a short period of time (10-15 minutes).
 
I had an AMT trip on Wednesday to early Thursday morning. I'm going to take 4-ho-met tomorrow and was wondering how much tolerance I should expect 3/4 days after the AMT.. or if its MAOI properties linger long enough to potentiate the Metocin?

I was going to take 15mg, but should I think I should add 5mg more to counter the tolerance..
 
I have tried finding out before whether aMT is a reversible or an irreversible MAOI to no avail. My feeling is that it is reversible - I have successfully taken several doses of 5-HTP after an aMT trip to combat the comedown. This would normally pose a serious problem with irreversible MAOIs, but there were no problems. The molecule doesn't have any reactive halogen groups or such.

Even if it was still inhibiting MAO after a couple of days, 4-HO-MET should be fine because (as far as we know) the 4-substituted tryptamine psychedelics don't cause the release or re-uptake inhibition of serotonin or catecholamines. This is why people are able to combine harmala alkaloids with psilocybin, as well as its naked cousin DMT.

Regarding tolerance, there will undoubtedly be a small increase in short-term tolerance resulting from your recent aMT trip, and 3 days is usually the very minimum to re-set it to levels where you can get off on a decent dose. Nevertheless, if you haven't been binging on high doses, the increase in tolerance should be small. Your 4-HO-MET dose may be slightly weaker than usual at the same dose, and of course you could take a few extra milligrams to counter that, but you could also use the opportunity to see how psychedelic tolerance works in you.

Either way, have a great trip on the metocin. It's bloody awesome material, and I should have the opportunity to re-visit it very soon. :)
 
Thanks muchly Survived Abortion. Some interesting info there!

Will be dosing up in an hour or so, with the extra 5mg :)
 
I tried 24mg of this last night and I must say: The effects are rather mild. OEVs like with 15mg of 2C-E. The stuff is good, I've heard it from several sources so it isn't because of unpure product.
Could it be that because I took some 2C-B 4 days before that I built up tolerance and because of that the effects were so weak?

I'm thinking of pushing it to 35mg next time to see what I can get out of it.
 
I saw some people in this thread that get strange palpitations/tachycardia when comedown. Do you notice this ever or only was a bad batch?
 
nigl said:
Could it be that because I took some 2C-B 4 days before that I built up tolerance and because of that the effects were so weak?

I'm thinking of pushing it to 35mg next time to see what I can get out of it.
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it could be. so best not to raise your dose so much next time ?
 
Survived Abortion said:
I have tried finding out before whether aMT is a reversible or an irreversible MAOI to no avail. My feeling is that it is reversible - I have successfully taken several doses of 5-HTP after an aMT trip to combat the comedown. This would normally pose a serious problem with irreversible MAOIs, but there were no problems. The molecule doesn't have any reactive halogen groups or such.

Even if it was still inhibiting MAO after a couple of days, 4-HO-MET should be fine because (as far as we know) the 4-substituted tryptamine psychedelics don't cause the release or re-uptake inhibition of serotonin or catecholamines. This is why people are able to combine harmala alkaloids with psilocybin, as well as its naked cousin DMT.

Regarding tolerance, there will undoubtedly be a small increase in short-term tolerance resulting from your recent aMT trip, and 3 days is usually the very minimum to re-set it to levels where you can get off on a decent dose. Nevertheless, if you haven't been binging on high doses, the increase in tolerance should be small. Your 4-HO-MET dose may be slightly weaker than usual at the same dose, and of course you could take a few extra milligrams to counter that, but you could also use the opportunity to see how psychedelic tolerance works in you.

Either way, have a great trip on the metocin. It's bloody awesome material, and I should have the opportunity to re-visit it very soon. :)
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Seems like on a few other forums people seem to be calling metocin mere "eye candy", although your description makes it sound alot more interesting than that, i will be experimenting with it fairly soon so will be interesting to finally experience it for myself:)
 
I've had a pretty bad experience with this:

I measured about 25 mg (weighed out 70 mg with a scale and then liquid dosing) and drank it. Surpringly I started to feel something about 5 minutes later, along with this "something" came the urge to visit the toilet. At about 15 minutes after ingesting I already had noticeable optics and a typical not so great tryptamine comeup feeling. Both optics and this nasty feeling greatly increased over the next half hour, accompanied by some nausea and moderate to strong anxiety. I tried to stay calm and thought the bad effects would subside with the hallucinogenic component becoming stronger but they both increased at the same rate. At this time I felt pretty miserable and took comfort in some tetrazepam tablets I fortunately had.

After about 1 1/2 hours of what I'd call a pretty bad trip things started to ease up a bit (I thank tetrazepam for this) and I was able to somehow enjoy 1 to 2 hours of pretty mindless optics and the occasional urge to laugh in a really weird and somehow disturbing way (:D). Then the effects started to subside but due to the stimulation I was pretty much awake for another 1 to 2 hours.

Now this really was a kind of special experience for me because
- I consider myself experienced with hallucinogenics in general and tryptamines
- Never had a bad trip like this before
- Never had to resort to benzos to safe a trip
- the comeup was really, really,really nasty!

I have 2 explanations why this could have happened:
1.) Maybe tryptamines just aren't my thing anymore, I had LSD (supposedly...) some months ago which was also a rather unpleasant experience. Although in this instance I have strong doubts about that being LSD. But if it was there seems to be some correlation there. Maybe I've been spoiled by MXE where you don't a body left to feel unpleasant or something like that ;)
2.) Maybe the 2-HO-MET was degraded. I stored it about 2-3 months at room temperature. It's the fumarate salt, but still.
 
I don't think the degradation should influence the quality of the trip itself. Sound like panic attacks IMO
 
hi everyone,

I just received some 4-ho-met fumarate and I'm worried about it's color. it rather grey/beige more than white. vendor says on his site that it's a white powder. do you think it's degraded?
 
Nope. My last batch of 4-Ho-MET was beige too. The fumarate salt is rather stable, stored in good conditions, it should not be degraded.
 
alright thanks.

one last thing, how can you tell if your 4-ho-met has degraded without trying it, does it turn a certain color or texture?
 
sim said:
alright thanks.

one last thing, how can you tell if your 4-ho-met has degraded without trying it, does it turn a certain color or texture?
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turns more clumpy while turning darker in color. my last batch was beige/grayish as well. get some cheap colored vials and you wont have to worry about it degrading while its in your possession.
 
When I measured 60 mg and dissolved them in water, I took the 25 mg for my trip and stored the rest of the solution in the fridge. Next day the solution was surprisingly intense orange.

So if you dissolve your substance and its orange: Definitely degraded :D

Other than that I have no idea.
 
I can't wait to try this stuff again, probably the most recreational psych for me despite the horrible, horrible bodyload on the come up
 
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