☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy 4-HO-EPT Thread

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks @bagseed I lack proper chemicals, apparatus and technique. Ash is primarily CaCO3 and K2CO3 (potash) by mass. Yes, there's potash in the pot ash. Since baking soda is used often for freebase prep, I was wondering if tryptamine HCl salt drive the formation of CaCl2 and KCl salt instead.

 

[Bagseed]

freebasing an amine is not something you need fancy equipment for. just dissolve your compound in water, add sodium hydroxide to get to ph 13, extract that with sonething like naphtha or petroleum ether and let your solvent evaporate. done.

separating the organic and aqueous phases can be done with a turkey baster or syringe, if you don't have s seperatory funnel. just do three organic extractions to get it all.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yeah, I've freebased chems before, but had a string of bad experiments and sort of stopped doing anything home chemistry. 4-FA freebase was one of the nastiest things a human could ingest when I prepped it. When I tried making DPT oil freebase it was wet and splattered everywhere when I tried to smoke it. I freebased MDPV using stuffmongers tek. The guy ran for for president of the USA in the election and lost. I tried to extract DXM from syrup once, and it failed. There was nothing there. I stopped trying to do home chemistry experiments since neighbors get curious and stuff. Try to keep it real simple. I never was very good at laboratory procedures, even though technically I'm a chemist on paper.

 

[Nervewing]

I will likely be sampling this tomorrow. Unfortunately, I do not have too much to work with, thus I will likely be "taking the plunge" to make the most of what i have~ From what I have read I am very eager to taste the effects of this particular chemical... The safety profile seems to align with the rest of the 4-sub-tryptamines.
Would a dose of 75 mg oral be substantial?

Also what is the consensus on bodyload for this one, especially with regards to GI effects? I haven't been able to dig up too much.

 

[Kaleida]

75 mg oral should be plenty satisfying if you're hoping for the kind of experience that has generally been reported so far. That is to say: delicious body buzz, euphoric and slightly dissociated headspace, time dilation, sensory and imagination enhancement, but not too much in the way of hallucinations or thought disorder. The closest dose I took to this was 65 mg, and it basically felt like having a very satisfying LSD trip, more than almost any other research chemical for me, but without having to go through almost any of the actual trip for it. There was no significant body load to speak of at this point or any below it.

My experiences with 25, 40, 65 mg oral were definitely the most enjoyable for me, but I will say as well that my experience with 100 mg oral, among other things, also leads me to suspect that there is a second kind of trip hidden within this drug as well, one that does not appear until you start dosing it more like 4-HO-DPT and is much stronger as a hallucinogenic experience, but like that one also may run the risk of producing an uncharacteristically heavy body load for a 4-substituted tryptamine at that point. That's what I'm going to try to investigate next myself, and for that I'll probably try like 50 mg insufflated or something....

These thoughts make me feel the need to point out that if you want to explore this side of it and don't plan to get more any time soon you might want to consider something more like that instead, but if you're happy to get the kind of experience that seems to be common on oral experiences with at least less than 100 mg, then go for it, 75 mg should be fine.

 

[Nervewing]

Thank you for the reply! You seem to be the foremost expert on this substance for now~ how I wish i had more to work with ... I'll be doing my 75 mg later today after I take a final, ill report back with notes and then a full report in the near future (still working on that escaline report from last week...)
4-HO-DPT body load is a phrase that just reflexively makes me recoil, yikes, that would be something I'd be keen to avoid but perhaps that issue would only arise with the insufflated ROA. I should have enough left to experiment with insuff in the near future but I'll see how oral treats me first :3

 

[Nervewing]

Had to abort experiement w/ benzodiazepinies bc of v intense muscle convulsions and high heart rate

 

[Kaleida]

Wow, really? That sucks, and is unexpected.... Even when I took 100 mg those aren't the kinds of side effects I got, it was mostly things like tension that felt like maybe vasoconstriction and labored breathing. Like how bad of convulsions and high heart rate are we talking?

Obviously there is still quite a lot we don't know about this molecule.... I wouldn't have expected that bad of a body load from that dose, but it's pretty hard to make predictions with so little information. The best I can say is that it does seem to me like it's pretty unique, so we probably should be more wary of unexpected surprises as well....

 

[cj187]

I'm surprised you had that kind of reaction to it. I didn't experience any kind of discomfort from 50mg and I imagine 75mg would still be comfortable. There must be some other factor that contributed to those side effects. Was the trip pretty intense in other aspects, or just the body load?

 

[Nervewing]

I would say this is one of the most powerful psychedeliic experiences I've had, across my whole range of 75 substances...............
Im still in the midst of it and have a lot to unpack, maybe its some sortta sensitivity for me. It was absolutely reality shattering entity contact sort of stuff, I'll write about it later
no discomfort other than the wicked convulsions, thats what I found most alarming , but nothiig in the GI or other peripheral stuff

 

[cj187]

How sure are you that it was actually 4-HO-EPT?

 

[Nervewing]

Came from well reputed vendor, bag was marked with purity and everything

something to note: prescribed 3000 mg gapabentinn and 150~300 mg bupropion daily

 

[Kaleida]

I would say this is one of the most powerful psychedeliic experiences I've had, across my whole range of 75 substances...............
Im still in the midst of it and have a lot to unpack, maybe its some sortta sensitivity for me. It was absolutely reality shattering entity contact sort of stuff, I'll write about it later
no discomfort other than the wicked convulsions, thats what I found most alarming , but nothiig in the GI or other peripheral stuff

Interesting.... This is actually exactly what I would've expected you to say if you had insufflated it instead. I absolutely think that the effects I got from 100 mg oral suggested that 4-HO-EPT was one of the strongest drugs I've ever taken, with the potential for complete breakthroughs and entities and such like you say, but it was still just at the threshold for that kind of trip. I'm kind of jealous, I'd say yeah, it sounds like you must just be much more sensitive to it by weight than we are.

I'm very curious about these convulsions.... Were they genuinely like seizure-like convulsions or was it just like extremely strong tremors? The latter would be more understandable to me, I get them on all 4-substituted tryptamines in high doses, and there doesn't seem to be anything dangerous about them, no matter how unsettling they get. But if it's actual convulsive activity then that's a bit more concerning....

 

[Nervewing]

I've never had a seizure before so I'm not sure what its like but my whole body woudl tense up and my appendages would move around a ton. I don't think I seized up, but also my appendnages were just moving uncontrollably, knees contracting, ankles contracting,

Im srry I didn'tt get a numerical read of heart rate, but I'll just say it was worrisome

This is a total mystery to me too, the safety profile of N substituted tryptamines and their respective 4-subbed analogues is pretty consistent and this one's structure fits in perfectly with the others

 

[Kaleida]

Move around like sudden jerking or move around like shaking heavily? The former would be worrisome to me, the latter not so much. With most 4-substituted tryptamines 25 mg used to be plenty to make my whole body shake to an extreme degree during the first part of the trip, though it got less common the more I used them. I don't believe this effect is dangerous, just uncomfortable, sometimes even painful. However, it's never done me any damage, and strangely it usually disappears with even higher doses.

If you were actually jerking around weirdly, that might be another story. It's true that 4-substituted tryptamines seem generally safe, but that doesn't mean we'll never hit any limits with them no matter how different they get.... I do think it's worth considering though that even if it was genuinely seizure-like activity that doesn't necessarily mean that the 4-HO-EPT is primarily to blame. Bupropion for instance is well-known to lower the seizure threshold.... How long have you been on it while using psychedelics?

Thanks for the warning about the heart rate too. I don't doubt that it was increased significantly, but it is hard to say how worrisome that really is without an actual reading.... I could barely measure or comprehend my heart rate at all at 100 mg and in retrospect I'm pretty sure it was barely different at all, so if you were tripping hard enough to get your heart pounding like it sounds like you might have been I can imagine it seeming like a very extreme situation.... Not trying to say it wasn't either, just considering all the different angles here. This is definitely the kind of thing I'd like to have some confidence about when planning out future trips....

 

[Nervewing]

A mix of both, there was a baseline of just constant violent shaking with all of my limbs and body, but sometimes it would lapse into episodes of them uncontrollably and rhythmicly contracting and me unctrollably contorting myself into weird positions.
I wasn't sure if this was worrisome or a sign of bad convulsive effects so i dosed with a benzo just to abort the experiment out of caution
I was aware of the Bupropion lowering my seizure threshold, but in all my experiennces with a wide range of tryptamines I have never had such a problem, even when i was on a higher dose of Bupropion.
Nowadays I take bupropion intermittently, I find its most effective that way at improving mood/focus/energy, just a few times a week, and I took a 300 mg dose this morning

The gabapentin is prescribed for anxiety and as an anticonvulsive so i tapped into that too

I would be eager to explore with this one, absolutely fascinating headspace and ethereal experiences, but definitely caution my way with much lower doses, perhaps during one of the gaps I take in my medications (that's a whole nother thing that I can elaborate on if necessary lol)

 

[Kaleida]

Oof, that doesn't sound good.... Not fun at the very least. Yeah, the baseline of shaking sounds like what I was describing. The other stuff, well I'm not educated enough to really say what it does sound like exactly, but it doesn't sound like anything I've ever at least personally experienced with these tryptamines. I mean, I've twisted into all kinds of bizarre shapes on tryptamines, but not uncontrollably like that.... I'd say taking that benzo was probably the right idea at least for now.

I suppose you can elaborate on the gaps in your medication.... That probably would be a wise idea when experimenting with these chemicals though as long as it doesn't cause any problems for you in its own right. It's good that you haven't had any negative interactions with bupropion and tryptamines before, but that certainly doesn't mean it will remain safe forever or with all tryptamines, and based on what bits of information I do know about seizures, I would also be afraid that you might become more sensitive to it over time if you let yourself get into that state repeatedly.... It's hard to say how the gabapentin would interact with it too, the intuitive thought might be it would block it through anticonvulsant effects, but it's ultimately really hard to say how all those different mechanisms combined will turn out in the end, and it's not unheard of for drugs like these kinds to do the exact opposite of what they're generally supposed to.... That's why I personally like to just limit the interactions as much as possible when doing these kinds of explorations, at least until I understand how something works in my body pretty well first.

I really do think this one feels special too, and I hope you're able to get something out of it without having to deal with that heavy body load in the future.... I'll certainly be interested in hearing what you think about when you give it a try. I'll keep an eye out for this trip report too, I'd be very interested to hear how this one went in more detail if you do get around to writing it.

 

[Xorkoth]

A mix of both, there was a baseline of just constant violent shaking with all of my limbs and body, but sometimes it would lapse into episodes of them uncontrollably and rhythmicly contracting and me unctrollably contorting myself into weird positions.
I wasn't sure if this was worrisome or a sign of bad convulsive effects so i dosed with a benzo just to abort the experiment out of caution
I was aware of the Bupropion lowering my seizure threshold, but in all my experiennces with a wide range of tryptamines I have never had such a problem, even when i was on a higher dose of Bupropion.
Nowadays I take bupropion intermittently, I find its most effective that way at improving mood/focus/energy, just a few times a week, and I took a 300 mg dose this morning

The gabapentin is prescribed for anxiety and as an anticonvulsive so i tapped into that too

I would be eager to explore with this one, absolutely fascinating headspace and ethereal experiences, but definitely caution my way with much lower doses, perhaps during one of the gaps I take in my medications (that's a whole nother thing that I can elaborate on if necessary lol)

So does that mean you have a tendency to convulsions, the fact that you're prescribed gabalentin? Just wondering as it may at least be relevant.

By the way, love your reports, glad you joined.

 

[Nervewing]

Oof, that doesn't sound good.... Not fun at the very least. Yeah, the baseline of shaking sounds like what I was describing. The other stuff, well I'm not educated enough to really say what it does sound like exactly, but it doesn't sound like anything I've ever at least personally experienced with these tryptamines. I mean, I've twisted into all kinds of bizarre shapes on tryptamines, but not uncontrollably like that.... I'd say taking that benzo was probably the right idea at least for now.

I suppose you can elaborate on the gaps in your medication.... That probably would be a wise idea when experimenting with these chemicals though as long as it doesn't cause any problems for you in its own right. It's good that you haven't had any negative interactions with bupropion and tryptamines before, but that certainly doesn't mean it will remain safe forever or with all tryptamines, and based on what bits of information I do know about seizures, I would also be afraid that you might become more sensitive to it over time if you let yourself get into that state repeatedly.... It's hard to say how the gabapentin would interact with it too, the intuitive thought might be it would block it through anticonvulsant effects, but it's ultimately really hard to say how all those different mechanisms combined will turn out in the end, and it's not unheard of for drugs like these kinds to do the exact opposite of what they're generally supposed to.... That's why I personally like to just limit the interactions as much as possible when doing these kinds of explorations, at least until I understand how something works in my body pretty well first.

I really do think this one feels special too, and I hope you're able to get something out of it without having to deal with that heavy body load in the future.... I'll certainly be interested in hearing what you think about when you give it a try. I'll keep an eye out for this trip report too, I'd be very interested to hear how this one went in more detail if you do get around to writing it.

Yeah I'm not sure. Perhaps similar effects would be felt if I had done proportionately high doses of other tryptamines, although this doesn't seem like an exorbitant dose?
The headspace of this drug was like nothing else though I'm certainly excited to explore its potential, just in a more contained way perhaps

So does that mean you have a tendency to convulsions, the fact that you're prescribed gabalentin? Just wondering as it may at least be relevant.

By the way, love your reports, glad you joined.

Nah it was prescirbed for anxiety and to compliment the original prescription of bupropion, given that one's tendency to lower seizure threshold
Thank you also ^.^

 

[DMTShroom1986]

Tried this one at 30mg orally in a gel cap the other night after an earlier allergy test and marquis reagent. Reagent colour matched the light olive transitioning to very dark olive, almost identical to the results I got from 4-ho-dpt.

Very little in the way of visuals but as you guys have said the headspace is amazing, I found it a useful tool with an amazingly positive afterglow, still riding the glow now two days later.

it has given me the push I need to give up alcohol. Never a massive drinker just drank for the sake of it and it was doing me no good.


Very similar to 4-ho-dpt as it has been said before. I did get some nausea which I don't normally get on tryptamines but that may have been due to spending 4 nights in Amsterdam and over doing everything as you do.

I will I'll try this one again soon with some 4-ho-met or aco-met as that makes everything nice.