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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Three

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It's possible the batch may be different, it can degrade more if left out in open air if it dissolves water from the air, similar to how aspirin bottle if left opened will absorb moisture from the atmosphere, giving off an acetal odor as mild hydrolysis takes place over time. I have noticed a few reports of different experiences from people who dissolved the stuff into water and let it sit a while, then drank slowly, one person who dissolved it into gatorade (then let it sit a while) then drank it also noticed different effects. Dilute hcl hydrolysis extraction definately creates a much different experience w/4-ho.
 
Good question PsychedelicDoctor. Frozen solution is just fine, and keeps forever, just dethaw the vial under running hot water and pipette off the correct ml amount (ie 2ml = 10mg). pure psilocin xtals are not all that stable in air according to Shulgin, salted out i'm sure it could be vacuum packed away then frozen...however, concerning the salting out, i'll send you a PM, as it is probably too much advanced discussion for this particular forum.
 
tregar said:
Good question PsychedelicDoctor. Frozen solution is just fine, and keeps forever, just dethaw the vial under running hot water and pipette off the correct ml amount (ie 2ml = 10mg). pure psilocin xtals are not all that stable in air according to Shulgin, salted out i'm sure it could be vacuum packed away then frozen...however, concerning the salting out, i'll send you a PM, as it is probably too much advanced discussion for this particular forum.
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I'd appreciate that for sure. Thinking of giving this a go on a small scale someday soon. I have similar experiences to 4-aco-dmt as you and while it doesn't necessarily bother me, I like to get the full picture.
 
The difference between (to me) 4-aco-dmt and 4-ho-dmt is like night and day. 4-ho-dmt which i've tried x 3 times now over several weeks is my favorite entheogen...4-aco-dmt on the other hand i'm likely too never take again after having tried it a good 6 times, my body just rejects it, i get flu like symptoms, extreme sedation, don't want to move, and can't wait for it to wear off. I love 4-ho-dmt and mescaline alot, it's hard to pick a favorite, they are both tied for first. If you have ever had panaeoleus cyanescens, then you will know what 4-ho-dmt is like, as pan cyans are pure psilocin and psilocybin and don't contain baeocystin and norbaeo (which may contribute to confused states) when people take psilocybe cubensis. 4-ho-dmt is extraordinary, not enough good things to say about it.
 
Cyanoide said:
I experience strong sedation, drowsiness, some loss of motoric capabilities, talk a bit like a drunk and also find it hard to move around. I usually don't move around.

Initially I didn't like these properties, but now I've learned to love them. 4-AcO-DMT trips are quite meditative for me because I don't move around much, do anything special or talk much. I just sit or lie in a sofa or bed. So it becomes quite introspective where there's lots of time to reflect on life. Sometimes I do get a little bit too sedated. It's like I'm in a cloud, I don't care about which track is playing (I'm VERY sensitive to have the right music on trips), which people are around me, I just nod into my own world and don't really care what happens around me. It's definitely not a social psychedelic for me.

The sedation and drowsiness is a kind of hallmark of 4-AcO-DMT, and people usually love it or hate it.
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I like the sedation but, 4-aco-dmt has a strong urinating effect too, and the difficulty to move + extreme need to go to pee is problematic. I need to piss many times on it, like every 2-3 minutes at the last stage of trip. I am the only one?
 
Not that often for me, but definitely significant polyuria towards the end of the experience. I have actually noticed some slight edema mirroring the psychedelic effects. It took me a while to figure out if I was just imagining it, you know, tripping and all. I assume the polyuria is our kidneys playing catch-up with the extra interstitial fluid building up in the beginning.
I wish I had a better understanding of what is actually going on though. This happens with different batches from different labs. I have also noticed significant bradycardia (HR < 60pm), although I'm usually bradycardic. The decreased > increased urine output could reflect a drop in the filtration rate of the kidney, but the kidneys are great at autoregulating that rate. I don't know. I don't think it is dangerous.
 
"Drinking a moderate amount of water during the vigil can ease any tendency to dehydration because of the diuretic action of psilocybin." from: hxxp://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article3.shtml

Love that on 4-ho-dmt I'm able to move around freely, on my last 10mg trip i opened the door, and nature looked Spectacular! It was so very bright and colorful...i went exploring outside and felt like seeing nature for the very first time thru a child's eyes. The CEV's were everchanging colors and patterns with silver sparks trailing the patterns...at one point I saw Mayan stonework with writing on them, and Mayan people and what they wore back in that time period, visuals were just amazing. It has a feel similar to about 80mg of mdma (just as Shulgin states on his description of 6.6mg 4-ho-dmt)...the only difference being that you still have an appetite like he states. I never want the trip to end, it lasts about 4 hours or so.
 
HighonLife said:
no one seems to be talking about it

but has anyone noticed that this drug is no longer being sold by vendors or no longer being sold to the US?

it kinda just happened outta nowhere, i got some a few weeks back, went to order more and was told that it is no longer goin to be carried at all, and another person told me that he knows a vendor still seeling it just not to the US

i dont want people to start talking sources or anything but i just find it interesting that no one else has mentioned that it kinda got pulled from the RC market or atleast the RC market available to the US
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I don't even live in that country, but from what I understand, it is illegal there because of the analog act.
 
^^ what country? the US?

im pretty sure its not specifically illegal because of the analog act but could be prosecuted under such law

but the place i ordered from is outta poland and they stop selling it entirely so its not because of US laws, its another vendor (outta where im not sure) that just stopped sales to america but even then its not just 4 aco dmt they stopped selling to america soo i doubt it has to do with US law, i mean maybe it does to an extent

oh well
 
"THIS is where it is at. Visuals are wild. Even with eyes open, with no visual target, there are imaginative visual effects."

Enough said.

The higher doses seem to have a more hallucinatory affect but if a substance is known to cause pseudohallucinations I'm there like bradly.

Might be interesting in combination with a euphoria (read serotonin re uptake) inducing substance.
 
If worse come to worse and it completely disappears, you can always grow panaeoleus cyanescens mushrooms which are virtually the exact same as 4-ho-dmt though. 70% of all pan cyans are just pure psilocin, serotonin and urea...however the variety from Hawaii also contains psilocybin.

Ever wonder why many consider the Panaeolus experience incredibly unique?

"They are the cleanest, smoothest, most peacefull mushroom vibe of all the species I have tried. Panaeolus cyanescens and tropicalis rank #1 in my book."

"the highs real clean . its reminds me of the phelix the cat acid from the 80s . just smooth . with little body noise and extreme visuals . a calm lucidty that is like a slice of heaven"

"Pan Cyan (and Trops) are very much worth the effort!!! I have never eaten any Cubes that were as VISUAL as these are. Not to mention a little goes a LONG ways. Gram and a half of these little fellers will blister your brain!"

Psilocybin and psilocin are part of the tryptamine family. Their chemical structure bears close resemblance to that of serotonin.

All Panaeolus species contain the neurotransmitter serotonin.
Cubensis and wood lovers do not contain serotonin. The primary effect of psilocin is on the receptors for serotonin and there is evidence that psilocybin reduces the reuptake of serotonin by neurons in the brain allowing this neurotransmitter more time to act in the synapse.

"The occurrence of tryptamine derivatives in Panaeolus cyanescens, also known as Copelandia cyanescens, from Australia, Hawaii and Thailand were investigated. All 70 collections contained psilocin, serotonin and urea. Those from Hawaii were also relatively rich in psilocybin, whereas the species from Australia and Thailand were virtually exempt of this compound.

It is not unthinkable that the ability to biosynthesize psilocin in a number of Panaeolus is a consequece of a genetic accident: initially, these members of the genus probably produced more or important qualites of serotonin until a mutation conferred the ability to produce 4-hydroxylated tryptamines. So far, not other genus or species has been found to accomplish this feat!"

Partial reference from:
Stijve, T. (1992): Psilocin, psilocybin, serotonin and urea in Panaeolus cyanescens from various origin

Even with lower levels of psilocybin, Panaeolus are still more potent than Cubensis. Why?
Because by weight psilocin is around 1.4 times more potent than psilocybin.
The primary active ingredients of psilocybe mushrooms are psilocybin and psilocin, and to a lesser extent baeocystin and norbaeocystin. The ratio of psilocybin to psilocin varies from species to species. The primary difference is that psilocin is unstable and it breaks down in the presence of oxygen. If the mushrooms are dried correctly and kept cold, they should suffer very little psilocin break down. Psilocybin on the other hand has been found in a 115-year old mushroom sample.

It is believed that after injestion, psilocybin is easily converted into psilocin and that the pharmacological properties of both compounds are the same.
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According to the aspirin paper #4, plain water at ambient room temperature will hydrolyze 90% of the aspirin in 36 hours. it's quite possible that 4-aco-dmt left in some water at room temp will convert totally into 4-ho-dmt after 36 hours.

a dilute acid solution (ph= 1 to 2) of 4-aco-dmt theoretically converts into 4-ho-dmt after 1 hour at 140 degree F...notice that in the aspirin paper #4, that 90% of aspirin will also hydrolyze into it's parent compound after 1 hour at 140 degree F in a dilute acid solution.

Shulgin on 4-ho-dmt:
hxxp://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal18.shtml

Hydolysis of aspirin paper #1:
hxxp://www.crscientific.com/article-aspirin.html

Hydrolysis of aspirin paper #2:
hxxp://www.philasim.org/newmanual/exp14.pdf

Hydrolysis of aspirin paper #3:
hxxp://www.kii.ntf.uni-lj.si/analchemvoc/SPEKTRA/kinetics2.htm
 
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~_Hiss_~ said:
OK I just have to ask this: Has anyone else ever hallucinated music on a 4-tryptamine? I wish I could remember it; sounded dark and alien but so real and intricate.
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I did with mushrooms, on 4gr alone in the dark.

The beat in my head sounded like chilled out drum & bass, but with a complex bassline rythm.


I had also a white light experience during that trip. Beautiful.
 
My fav way to do it lately is in the dark, just laying there listening to techno/trance/dance music... but the best way is outside on a sunny day, in nature... camping, hiking around a stream/river or up a mountain somewhere. Laying on the side of a mountain, near a river/waterfall, with a small fire, some food, drinks, and refuge (tent, blankets to lay on, or whatever) is absolutely the BEST. I love this compound!
 
Nature is definitely the best way to experience 4-aco-dmt. Trees and plants come to life around you, forming beautiful scenes. Every time I go back inside while on this trip seems to suffer: it begs me to return outside. At the same time, I love lying in bed on this, especially during the come-up, since it's usually so intense. Actually, lying down seems to amplify the trip sometimes, but not always in a good way.
 
I feel a little bit clear minded on 4-aco compared to shrooms... definitely 4-aco feels better, ie every time I do shrooms, I feel nausea, but not with 4-aco.

4-aco is much more powerful though... ie, 10 grams of shrooms messed me up real good, but I still had straight vision except for the normal mushroom visuals... but on 90mg of 4-aco, my vision was totally messed/bluring together and stuff.

Both of those doses made me vomit. The 10g shrooms, was okay until I tried to smoke weed, then cough cough barf. The 90mg 4-aco was fine in the dark, but got up to pee and I was running to the bathroom to puke, and could not see straight at all. Toilet moving back and forth, and yellow instead of white. (Still got it all in the toilet though lol).

On a lower dose of 4-aco (like 30mg) I really feel like partying... like I'd love to have a huge summer party with like 20+ people all fried on 4-aco
 
Oh, and just so you all know, that 90mg dose was insufflated starting at 30mg, then an hour later 30mg more, then an hour later 30mg more... the puking was around the 6-7hr mark, after laying in the dark for hours
 
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