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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Three

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I get that with 4-AcO-DMT too, I lay down in bed, put my headphones in, half way through the first song - time to piss, okay.. I'm back, a few minutes later I remember my music, start listening again and what to you know! Once again my bladder's requesting attention.

I tend to get this with anything stimulating though, and while the peak of 4-AcO-DMT feels sedating I suspect it is actually somewhat stimulating in action since I've often found my jaw aching afterwards, not realising I was grinding it - and on the comedown there is definite intense stimulation for me usually.
 
I have definitely noticed all of these qualities with 4-aco-DMT. It makes me yawn and tired, and I walk like I'm drunk, and it's also made me and others I know have to piss a lot, and often. And during the comedown, there can definitely be stimulation, most notable in my feet and hands. They just feel like they have excess vibrating energy deep down in my nerves and muscles that is not always pleasant, but at the same time, not very pronounced. Definitely nothing like 2C-E or 2C-D.

Nonetheless, 4-aco-DMT is an all time favorite of mine for it's similarity to DMT (it's more like a dilated DMT trip for me than it is like mushrooms), and for it's intense mellowness.
 
during the comedown, there can definitely be stimulation, most notable in my feet and hands. They just feel like they have excess vibrating energy deep down in my nerves and muscles
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Quoted for truth. Interestingly I find 2C-E to be not too stimulating on the come down - I can sleep on 2C-E as long as the peak has passed, 4-AcO-DMT I can't sleep until I'm fully down. The easiest way to describe the stimulant muscle tension that 4-AcO-DMT gives me is it feels kind of like the feeling when you stretch, only in your whole body - as if there's lots of energy buzzing away - but I don't particularly want to do more than roll about.
 
^Yeah, I also had difficulty sleeping after coming down. Even after smoking a bowl, I was still tossing and turning for a while before actually falling asleep.

And don't even talk about needing to pee. I'm already a frequent pisser, so 4-aco just made me constantly have to go. I think this is one of the reasons why I love bathrooms so much while tripping, haha.
 
Strange, I get no physical stimulation at any point on the trip. The comedown is not stimulating at all, I just get the usual slight mental fatigue from the experience (as I always do after a trip). Sleep is absolutely no problem, even if there are slight tracers and breathing walls still present I can sleep. But the friend I'm usually tripping with says he sometimes experiences some hypertension, so it must be quite individual.

Oh, my question above still remains unanswered. Is there anything to counter the extreme sedation that's not a classic stimulant (like caffeine, amphetamines etc) and does not make my headspace more clear (thus taking away the trancelike mental state I so enjoy)? Anything from the herbal world? The stimulation should not be strong, just enough to keep me from nodding the whole trip that sometimes occurs.
 
I'd recommend trying some lively music and moving around a bit. I think the sedation is just the feel of the trip rather than actual sedation, so if you get into an active/stimulated mindset you might be able to push past it and change how you feel - depending on the dose that is, since higher doses will most likely floor you whether you like it or not.
 
Cyanoide said:
Strange, I get no physical stimulation at any point on the trip. The comedown is not stimulating at all, I just get the usual slight mental fatigue from the experience (as I always do after a trip). Sleep is absolutely no problem, even if there are slight tracers and breathing walls still present I can sleep. But the friend I'm usually tripping with says he sometimes experiences some hypertension, so it must be quite individual.

Oh, my question above still remains unanswered. Is there anything to counter the extreme sedation that's not a classic stimulant (like caffeine, amphetamines etc) and does not make my headspace more clear (thus taking away the trancelike mental state I so enjoy)? Anything from the herbal world? The stimulation should not be strong, just enough to keep me from nodding the whole trip that sometimes occurs.
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The physical stimulation for me was quite remarkable and very similar to the stimulation i get on mushrooms, its hard to put it into words though, its like your whole body is full of pure euphoric energy thats in your muscles blood etc, and for me it always starts in my stomach/core of my body and spreads outwards to my whole body, its just such a good feeling!
 
Jesusgreen said:
I'd recommend trying some lively music and moving around a bit. I think the sedation is just the feel of the trip rather than actual sedation, so if you get into an active/stimulated mindset you might be able to push past it and change how you feel - depending on the dose that is, since higher doses will most likely floor you whether you like it or not.
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You have a good point here. I'm not so sedated I'm unable to move, I just usually just don't have any urge to move around much. Once I lay down in the bed or sofa, that's pretty much the place I spend the whole trip. I've had a long walk on 4-AcO-DMT once but it did have some impact on my motoric skills. I walked a bit like I would have been drunk and it was hard to keep my head straight, I kept nodding while walking too. I've danced on it too and enjoyed it but the doses have to be 20 mg or under for that to work. Strangely enough I like to listen to quite energetic music although I can feel sedated. As you said the dose has it's role too, on high doses walking around is a bit difficult and my balance is markedly effected.

For me 4-AcO-DMT is still not a compound suitable for much physical action, there are tryptamines better suited for that.

scotty5591 said:
The physical stimulation for me was quite remarkable and very similar to the stimulation i get on mushrooms, its hard to put it into words though, its like your whole body is full of pure euphoric energy thats in your muscles blood etc, and for me it always starts in my stomach/core of my body and spreads outwards to my whole body, its just such a good feeling!
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It's nice that the physical stimulation feels good and not as an irritating nervousness. For me the complete lack of physical stimulation is why this compound gives me the strongest feeling of inner peace of any psychedelic. The sense of inner peace, being totally at easy with yourself reminds me very much of how I feel on deep meditation sessions.
 
IV 4-AcO-DMT

I was wondering how many grams of 4-AcO-DMT I should IV and how many units of water to use with it? i've seen people do 5mg and i have seen people do 30mg. i want to know what i should do for the most intense high possible.
thanks.
 
debrutsid911 said:
I was wondering how many grams of 4-AcO-DMT I should IV and how many units of water to use with it? i've seen people do 5mg and i have seen people do 30mg. i want to know what i should do for the most intense high possible.
thanks.
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I don't know what you think we're going to tell you, but start low, closer to the 5mg end than the 30mg end (I'd say 10mg maximum for a starting point, you can always dose higher during subsequent uses). I've IVed this stuff and it'll knock your socks off, you don't want risk way overdoing it. I don't quite remember the solubility, but you shouldn't have any problems gettin' that in a 1mL or even a .5mL syringe.

If you can, it's always wise to use a micron filter, just 'cause RCs are made in a lab doesn't make them at all sterile (especially given conditions in some of those labs,).
 
Check out The Big & Dandy Storage Thread for a more detailed response, but:

I have my 4-AcO-DMT stored in a baggy inside another baggy, inside a box, kept in a cupboard - and it seems to have kept it's potency after 14 months. However, that said, it looks slightly discoloured - that might be just me, but it's possible it's starting to degrade into 4-HO-DMT.

I'd recommend keeping it in a bag inside a container - but rather than putting it in a cupboard like I've done, stick it in the freezer. It needs to be kept cool and dark :)
 
I've finally got some to try for the first time. I'm looking forward to it, but I'd be surprised if it knocks 4-ho-met of the top of my 4- trypt list. :)
 
So the vendor I order some 4-AcO-DMT from has informed me that it's of the HCL variety, and not fumarate. Could anybody clear me up on the differences?

What I have unearthed about them is that the HCl form is significantly more potent (almost twice as strong), but also quicker to degrade.
If I use the storage methods that Jesusgreen mentioned above though, I should be fine, right?
 
HCl is almost certainly not twice as strong I'm pretty sure. IIRC Freebase is around 30% more potent than fumarate and it is the most potent form.
 
I believe HCl is only slightly more potent than fumarate, e.g. people taking 20mg HCl rather than 25mg fumarate. The HCl degrades notoriously fast, so I'm not sure if my storage methods would be sufficient.

I'd recommend storing it with silica gels or another drying agent, keeping it inside a sealed bag, inside an airtight container, and then placing that inside the freezer for best results. :)
 
I keep everything stored in dark amber vials, the kind one would purchase hash oil in. Then I keep those vials inside small ziploc bags, and then all the ziploc bags inside a water-proof airtight box, which is kept in the freezer.

Another think to remember if you keep your drugs in the freezer, is to let them warm to room temperature before you take the lid off, to keep condensation from forming inside the vials once you open them.
 
Coolio said:
4-AcO-DMT freebase has a molar mass of 246.

Fumaric acid has a molar mass of 116.

Hydrochloric acid has a molar mass of 36.46.

2000mg of 4-AcO-DMT HCl is therefore equivalent to 1703mg of 4-AcO-DMT freebase.
2000mg of 4-AcO-DMT fumarate is equivalent to 1057mg of 4-AcO-DMT freebase.
2000mg of 4-AcO-DMT fumarate is equivalent to 1241mg of 4-AcO-DMT HCl.

To calculate an equipotent dosage to those who are using the 4-AcO-DMT fumarate salt, Psychonautical, you would multiply their dose by 0.62.
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^That is the post I found regarding the differences between HCl and fumarate, but I could be interpreting it wrong.

And I'll try storing it that way once I receive it. I plan on putting it in a sealed baggie, inside of a non-opaque vial, in the freezer. I'll try and find some silica bags as well.
 
Why would a vendor sending the hcl version through the mail? Isn't it entirely possible that some degrades before it reaches the recipient, making it Schedule I? Or maybe it degraded before even being shipped out?
 
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