Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Five

[Yeetbeat]

I said my piece. You can continue to create FUD and I'll continue to fight against it. Let the pieces fall where they may.

So long as you stop short of advising or suggesting other users take massive doses of any psychedelic, go for it. You will be infracted, as others have been in the past - myself included once upon a time - for issuing advice that could land the user in harm.

 

[Ziiirp]

Can someone post a summary with the criticized dosing suggestions ?

 

[TheBlackPirate]

I agree with trozzle, recommending extreme starting does isn't in the best interest of harm reduction. With every drug begin with an allergy test far below the desired dosage. With 4-AcO-DMT an allergy test of ~2.5mg is advisable is you're certain of the drugs composition. If you're uncertain of the drugs composition then starting with ~50ug is safe.

Protecting each others physical and psychological safety is most important. In forcing the supply of drugs into unregulated illegal markets the War on Drugs makes otherwise harmless usage of psychedelic medicines potentially dangerous. Remember, black/gray market vendors occasionally misrepresent and mislabel their wares.

Start with an allergy test if a chemical is new to you.

 

[Xorkoth]

I removed a lot of posts that were off-topic, about particular users or the perceived state of the forum. No one has been censored, except for the posts that were cluttering the thread. Everyone was given ample time to present their sides, and those posts are still up and will not be removed at any time. This is a public forum, everyone has the right to say what they want, but at this point this conversation has become extreme disruptive, and has already been discussed fully. Further cluttering of this or other threads with this stuff will result in further action. If anyone is not satisfied with participating here, no one is forcing you to stay.

I can identify aspects of all sides of this argument that I agree with, but no one responds well to condescension and inflammatory statements.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

YES! IT WILL! THAT is the exact point I am making. Humans have figured out for thousands of years, how NOT to have bad trips and always be okay on mushrooms/psilocin. I highly recommend looking into that. Because THAT is what I'm advocating here and people are simply unwilling to even listen. It's really sad.

The wisdom of the ages is the only thing that works.

There are just so many things wrong with this logic...
We are all here to learn different lessons and there has never will never be a single path that works for everyone primarily due to that fact that we are all individuals with different goals, different beliefs and different life experiences.
Also, how can you make the claim that no one has had a bad trip under the supervision of a shaman???
Were you present at all those ceremonies during the ages?
I also don't think that anyone who is either constantly on psychedelics or coming down from them is at s qualified to give advice on absolutley anything which it seems like you are from reading your posts in PD.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Because for them, the concept of a 'bad trip' doesn't exist. Every trip is a good trip that you need. That's all there is to it. This whole 'bad trip' thing is a only a thing of the West.

Regardless of our uniqueness, there is a certain universality to this experience in particular.

There is no such thing as a bad trip. If there is, I've had countless bad trips. But it's in how you tell people how to look at it. If you look at it negatively, and fear it, this nonsensical concept will remain with the masses.

Subjects under my care have shows great anxiety and fear before taking this. But after 1/2 an hour of counseling, they no longer fear it. I explain to them exactly why a large dose is needed and as soon as they understand that, there is no more fear or anxiety. Every single step of the trip is broken down and explained, coupled with the explanation of why a minimum of 50 mg of a large dose is needed.

As soon as their fears are put to rest, I give them 50-70mg and let them have whatever trip they need to have. Some people show a bit of fear and anxiety during the come up, but you simply advise them that this is harmless, and as soon as the come up is over, you'll have the best trip of your life.

Positive reinforcement, encouragement, an extremely positive mindset and setting is very important.

I'm not blindly advocating large doses for everything. Just this. Just the mushroom entity. Why? Because it's harmless; physically and mentally benign. Fear is fabricated and can be easily swatted to the ground with a forceful blow of your cognition.

I have had 100% success rate with every single experiment with 50-70 mg for people who have NEVER done this or mushrooms or even have had a psychedelic experience.

Incidentally, I've been present at countless ceremonies in various different cultures that use psychedelics heavily. The conversations I've had with sages, shamans, sadhus, faqeers, sufis and brahmann babas, witch doctors and warlocks; they all have this commonality to their belief, that anyone looking for a 'vision' from the cosmos (looking for a psychedelic experience, trip) should never take baby doses. They should take the sufficient recommended high dose so that the mind cannot fight or resist the psychedelic state at any point.

The 'bad trip' comes from when the mind is able to resist and fight the psychedelic state. If you take a high enough dose, it's not possible to resist the state and there is no 'bad' trip. The intensity can be easily dealt with if you inform the subject before hand. It's always the unknown that scares us. Well, if you inform them so that they it is no longer the unknown, they no longer have even the chance of having a freakout or a bad trip.

100% success rate. No freakouts. No bad trips. None at all. Why? Because I don't send people into this with fear, uncertainty and doubt. Because there is none. No matter how unique we maybe, or what we're seeking ... the universality of this experience cannot be overlooked.


The bad trips and freakouts don't come from the higher amount of substance someone takes. It comes from their psyche and specifically not taking enough where the mind is able to resist. If the mind is able to resist, it will. It's NOT dependent on this substance and has never been. This is not the opinion of one man. This is a well known fact.

No this entirely your opinion because facts are verifiable and no one can verify your claims of 100% success rate in your trials or your personal anecdotal conversations with "witch doctors" and "warlocks".
By the way, what ancient culture do warlocks come from???
I have a lot more experience than 16 years with psychedelics and I've seen the shit hit the fan many times regardless of positive reinforcement or reassurance or whatever. Even if you have had 100% success that in no way means that you won't encounter a problem in the future.
For some people high doses of serotonergenic psychedlics produce nothing but dysphoria. This universality you speak of is not in any way provable to be universal because you can't experience what any one else experiences. The perception of reality is entirely subjective and so are individual psychedlic experiences.

 

[disasterline]

just acquired some, it is furmate. i saw a few postings on different website saying that because its a furmate i should use just a little bit more.

iv done mushrooms once when i was 17, so 10 years ago. i believe it was half a cut. I'm fairly experienced with weed, benzos, opiates, and dissos but a psychedelic noob. i will be alone in my house doing this, so I'm thinking that 12mg would be good?

also, has anyone had any experience combing 4-aco-dmt with 2-oxo-pce or dck?

 

[disasterline]

i did 10mg. i figured to play it safe for my first time. it was waste of my time. all i got was a huge amount of body load which was unpleasant. i mean i felt the effects of the drug, but it was like being on a roller coaster and getting to the top of the first hill 200 feet up, only to find that it only goes down a very slow hill back to the station.

i most likely will go for 50mg next time.

 

[kidklmx]

Maybe you should look in to Stanislav Grof, StonedApe. He argued that lower doses were more helpful in terms of therapy.

Personally +-30mg has been quite valuable and plenty active. I've been higher, but that does range has been the best for me.

 

[SONN]

dude I had my initial breakthrough experience on 27mg. you don't NEED 50mg. also IME saying each gram of mushrooms contains roughly ten miligrams isnt very accurate. I find 20mg to be pretty similar in intensity to an eighth of mushrooms, and when I had my breakthrough experience on 27mg it was much more intense than when I ate five grams of mushrooms.

I think the thing about 4-aco is that it isn't wedged inside mushrooms that take a lot longer to digest than a capsule. thats why think the 'waves' of psychedelia that hit you are more intense/obvious with 4-aco-DMT than mushrooms for me generally

 

[Sun Drugs]

I've read the last couple of pages and it setting aside the debate over how high of a dose is recommended, does anyone find value in low doses (10mg or below). Based on a few posts in this thread it seems like it is just a waste of time. I actually tried ~8mg a couple of weeks ago (along with my daily dose of kratom) and had to take 1mg of etizolam to mellow me out...felt no real body load, but I felt like I wasn't in control of my body. Everything seemed...really smooth and in your face, though it is hard to describe. I've been using dissociatives regularly for the better part of a couple of years and this expecience just seemed weird. I had tried low doses of 4-HO-MET (4-10mg a few times) and the body load combined incredibly with the kratom and had some minor visual effects, it was amazing.

Want to try this one out again at a low dose but maybe it just isn't right for that. Don't think I am ready for a breakthrough dose though...had a freak out 6 years ago on another tryptamine (don't remember which) and weed.

 

[Xorkoth]

My take on low does has changed dramatically over the course of my tripping experience. When I wasn't too experienced with psychedelics yet, I used to get weird bodyloads all the time. In those days, low doses were uncomfortable for me, I got weird body feelings and a halfway in sort of state that was not enjoyable. But these days, I basically don't get bodyloads anymore except on a few things, and I really enjoy low doses for what they are. It's just a slight alteration, a sparkle to the day, a little extra inspiration in your thoughts.

I don't think I've low-dosed 4-AcO-DMT specifically though so maybe I'd find it weird too.

 

[Ziiirp]

I've low dosed this compound a couple of times and it have been the most horrible experience with 5htc2-x agonists I had. But then again, I would not count myself as "experienced with psychedelics", though I now how to handle them without complications now.

 

[TheBlackPirate]

dude I had my initial breakthrough experience on 27mg. you don't NEED 50mg.

Hence I recommend allergy tests. Alexander Shulgin also utilized allergy tests then incremental dosage increases from there.

Every person's body responds differently and the normal dose in some users could cause extreme effects or a allergic reaction in others. Frequently individuals metabolizes and/or respond differently with drugs than most people do.

If your drug was mislabeled, if your body responds with hypersensitivity, or if you're allergic you'd rather learn these things at much lower doses than the extreme dosages recommend in this thread.

I admire Alexander Shulgin greatly. Shulgin was innovative, intelligent, and lived over 80 years. Perhaps part of his longevity and success was the result of proactive harm reduction such as allergy tests. I proceed with each chemical the same way.

 

[MocCozmiK]

Not sure where this post belongs.
But I am fucked up and I need to express this. It's been bothering me a while..

I Love 4-Aco-DMT!

But..... My cats.. Love them with all my heart and soul. But they know when I am on it. And they DO NOT LIKE ME!
I swear they look like at me like I am a bad enemy. And they won't actually even make eye contact with me.

So this is upsetting to me. And it can take what started out as a beautiful wonderful trip, and when I look at the cats, shit gets dark. And sinister.

It really messes with my mind and emotions.

Oh and so sorry guys if this made no sense. Like I said I am wonderfully fucked up on my fav 4-sub
And wow so grateful right now!! Because the last. Few trips were rough.

Today seemed the perfect day to trip because of the clouds! I love the clouds. Fractal! Snowflakes in the cloud! And wow! Never noticed how darn good my lawn looks - greener than ever!! Lol

Anyways... Sorry got off my main topic of posting.

My question is to the people who have cats and love them - do your cats act like you are the #1 enemy?
And what can I do to make my cats realize I am not bad person. It's me! The one who found their homeless ass, and gave them shelter and love. How can I soften the energy I am obviously giving to them¿¿

 

[Yeetbeat]

Moved a few posts over to the social thread, in case anyone wonders where their kitteh talk went try to keep B&D's free of chat unrelated to the specific compound y'all!

cheers

 

[Sir Ron Pib]

GF tried this and wasn’t impressed. She’d taken 15mg, which was fairly strong (she’s pretty lightweight)but she had a depressing anxious eventually paranoid time. she enjoyed the visual aspect but not a lot else. Said it felt cleaner than shrooms but more relentless (less wavy) and empty ie similar language to shrooms but less spirit-shamanic element. “Cleaner’ might be a improvement for me although her stomach felt bad - more so than shrooms weirdly

 

[Zero Beta]

~no.. needle. or . Shoot~bump~
0-15 mg - Nothing
15-50mg Nothing
50-100mg nothing... but shiny colors
120-150mg... shiny with the add of MiPT. stars. walls twitched
200mg-250mg ... sleepy
250mg-300mg+.. Overdose ... vomiting and restless sleep

*notes* under 100mg ~super dose of vitamin C helps
*note* *note* from 100mg-200mg MiPT and Dibutylon and 4F-PHP added
*note* *note**note* *note*
Vape ...Dib and PHP ... mayby
vape 4F and miPT .. fire...it just burns
Freebase ...
same dose ... =[

+++each ,,, not total

 

[eclipse3130]

NN DMT is a functional analog to Aco-DMT, NN DMT in itself is a freebase form, making it smokable and not orally injestable without the use of an MAOi.

4-ACO-DMT is not just Acetyl Psilocin(One would think that from the common name O-Acetylpsilocin) but what it's missing is the Hydroxy group of Psilocin, and 4-ACO-DMT is in fact N,N-Dimethyltryptamine with an Acetoxy group in the 4 position creating(4-Acetoxy, N,N-Dimethyltryptamine) Psilocin is the same but with a Hydroxy in place of Acetoxy.

The fact that Psilocybin most likely has its own activity as well as being a prodrug has everything to do with the peak and experience of Mushrooms - it takes time to break down into Psilocin through the body, the "waves" of a mushroom experience are an accumulation of activity and digestion/absorption of Psilocybin and other minor alkaloids found in Mushrooms.(My theory)

If you have ever eaten fresh Mushrooms you will know that they act quicker and are stronger by weight because of the higher Psilocin content.

There is a such thing as synthetic 4-HO-DMT, as there are quite a few people who can vouch and have tried it, explaining different effects.

Most mushrooms have an equal Psilocybin to Psilocin content? In Cubensis case yes, but for all mushrooms not entirely true, as some species vary greatly, such as Azurescens have high Psilocybin to Psilocin content, but YES if they are FRESH Cubensis variety generally have an equal percentage.

You have to realize most people that consume mushrooms are of the DRIED, Cubensis variety, most if not all of the Psilocin is lost due to oxidation in the drying process.

4-Aco-DMT is most definitely active on its own, proven through IV injection before ever reaching any form of metabolism, and also correlating to the less manic and chaotic version of synthetic 4-HO-DMT, furthering proving its own activity and individual metabolisms.

4-Aco-DMT is never converted to Psilocin in the body, as there is no hydroxy group! It's converted into N,N-Dimethyltryptamine which is active in the brain during the experience hence why I mentioned it reminds me more of Smoked DMT or Oral DMT, it's more visionary than mushrooms.

And to others interested, I hope this post provides some insightful information.

I hope that clears things up, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dreamofrc]

I've read the last couple of pages and it setting aside the debate over how high of a dose is recommended, does anyone find value in low doses (10mg or below). Based on a few posts in this thread it seems like it is just a waste of time.

In my opinion there isn't really much value in low doses apart from initial test dose(s) to make sure it doesn't affect you really strongly for some reason and/or making sure you have the right drug if you haven't had it tested. Low dose 4-aco-dmt is basically just all the body load with barely any of the unique psychological perspectives/insights, and not much in the way of visuals or music appreciation either. In my experience just being out in nature automatically makes most tryptamines experiences much better and more posivite though. Being stuck inside can make you feel a bit "trapped" by the constructs of modern civilization.

That being said I dosed 12mg of it with 150mg of MXP (2-meo-diphenidine) about a month ago and it totally blew my mind. I was out of my mind with all sorts of ideas rushing through my head and my entire vision was just huge waves/tracers everywhere.