The Big & Dandy 3-MeO-PCP Thread (Part 1)

[TheAppleCore]

^ Yeah. IME, when taken via insufflation (which shouldn't differ too much from sublingual), it takes at least a good 2 hours to peak, and it's going to be at least another couple hours before the plateau even begins to fade.

Also, my dosages were on an order of magnitude above your 3 milligram dose. Starts to make one wonder if we are really getting the same chemical, eh?

 

[psood0nym]

^I know what you mean, but still I don't know what it would be at that dosage range if it's a different chemical. 3-ho-PCP is a plausible guess, since that's both more potent and there have been a few reports of it (indicating that it has at least circulated at very limited levels), but I'd still guess that's highly unlikely. I'd think a scale that's off is a more likely explanation of the 3 mg reading, but that doesn't reconcile the atypically fast onset and short duration aspect of it. Perhaps it's just a super fast metabolism for 3-MeO-PCP, but that's obviously utter speculation too. It's hard to imagine jaced "psychosomatically extrapolated" a high dose experience from threshold effects ...

 

[jaced]

I'm going to give it another shot this week, I think this time I'm not going to let it even touch the lining of my mouth and cap it up - then see if the experience skips out the first initial rushes. If it does, I will repeat the experiment a day or two later but this time hold it in my mouth as long as I can handle. I'm going to try a different set of scales too. Will report back.

 

[Spooky Snacks]

Interesting substance as I have seen some of it floating around candyland.

Pcp is already uber potent and then combining it with the characteristics of 5 meo wow. I can only imagine how the effects would be.

If there is any links or info in THIKal a link would be greatly appreciated

 

[lulzkiller]

Spooky Snacks; you've got a few things wrong.

1) you cannot combine the characteristics of PCP with "5-MeO", simply because 5-MeO is not a chemical, but rather an imprecise way of referring to either: 5-MeO-DMT, a potent tryptamine psychedelic, or the entire class 5-MeO tryptamines, a class of generally high potency.

2) Even if you were not talking about 5-MeO-DMT or 5-methoxylated tryptamines, and about the 5-MeO substitutions in general (i.e. 5-MeO-PCP, if this is even possible), you would not be able to expect that the addition of a 5-MeO group would increase potency, or change the nature of the chemical into a more "5-MeO-tryptaminesque"-experience.

3) PCP is not a tryptamine or a phenethylamine, and Shulgin didn't think that dissociatives/arylcyclohexylamines (the latter being the structural chemical class to which PCP, MXE and Ketamine belong) could be worthwhile as proper psychedelics. This means he never even wrote about 3-MeO-PCP. If you want info, going to wikipedia and looking up the references at the bottom would give you a starter. Other useful areas might be: Reading this thread and searching the Advanced Drug Discussion forum.

 

[CesarMillan]

Its like the Salvia of dissociatives this one, remember how everyone thought Salvia was a hoax for years and years because of its completely unpredictable tolerance/anti-tolerance and dose/response curve?

Could just be this one is wicked strange

 

[limonov]

Its like the Salvia of dissociatives this one, remember how everyone thought Salvia was a hoax for years and years because of its completely unpredictable tolerance/anti-tolerance and dose/response curve?

Could just be this one is wicked strange

That's something that I don't think people are considering- prehaps what 3-MeO-PCP does to you and how much you need to take depends more on your metabolism than the drug itself- sorta like how some people can get completely smashed on tramadol/codeine, with others just can't because their body just doesn't metabolise it that way.

Could 3-MeO-PCP be a prodrug for something? If, in some people, it is converted into some extremely strong metabolite (like heroin is converted into morphine) then that would explain the massive variation in dosage/response/duration people seem to be reporting.

As 3-MEO-PCP is meant to be at least as strong as PCP it shouldn't be suprising that non-k-tards experience noticible effects at 5mg or less. You should be able to feel 5mg of PCP if you don't have a tolerance to NMDAr antagonists. It shouldn't be strong or overwhelming

In my experience 3-MeO-PCP is more like a manic version of PCP- it does have some similarities with Methoxetamine, but I agree with the above poster who said you can't replace MXE with this stuff. They're very different drugs, methoxetamine is a lot weaker and more predictable (who would have thought?) than a weird, potent PCP analog. The main difference, other than the increased stimulation/drug-induced mania, I found between 3-MeO-PCP and PCP is that PCP is 'colder' and more 'emotionless'...it's hard to describe, I prefer regular PCP so I don't mean it in a bad way, but I found that I had periods of hyper-emotionality/reexperiencing memories with the 3-MeO-PCP. And while that wasn't unenjoyable (and, imo, theraputic) I'm glad I was alone so I could have a goood cry every couple of hours.

It's very hard to explain, like with ketamine/PCP/MXE/DXM I feel like a robot. Emotion exists, but simply as internalised prompts, I'm aware of their 'existance' and that I am subjectively experiencing them, but I don't feel any emotion. I don't think I could ever cry on K/PCP/MXE/DXM (other than the odd 'euphoria tear' ), I just feel like those parts of my brain are completely shut off with those drugs...but both 3-MeO-PCP and 4-MeO-PCP have had a noticibly different 'emotionality'. Both of them made me very nostalgic, for instance, they reminded me of all these things that happened when i was younger, just little moments that ended up being massive turning points in my life- it's extremely strange because you're still dissociatiated as hell, hence all the crying- it was like watching 8 hours of the most tragic movie ever, because I knew the full context of all those moments and what came after. This is becoming increasingly like gibberish, so I think I'll stop trying to explain it- but has anyone else noticed this? I can remember Jamshyds 3-MeO-PCP trip report(s) commented on the emotionality- that emotion was more 'present' than with ketamine, but it was still easy to remain detatched if you wanted (while I take dissociatives almost exclusively for 'theraputic' introspection, and to try to unwrap the mystery of myself to myself- I generally do nothing, I just lie by myself in bed and watch BBC for 90% of my dissociative use- so maybe the effects are due to my conscious decision to not be detatched- which would be even more interesting)

 

[delic]

limonov, I can identify with your experiences a lot and I use dissociatives much the way you do. I can't comment on the 3MeOs, but I can compare ketamine, MXE, PCP, 4MeOPCP, PCB (the mono-N-butyl version of PCP) and PCiP (the mono-N-isopropyl version of PCP). I found the 4MeOPCP more emotional than the previous three, but the last two were especially so, with long, cathartic periods of deep longing and mourning, along with joyful periods, but not so much laughter. What seems to be the trend here is that analogs lacking a ketone group and having a secondary amine have this more emotional character. However, I've also noticed that they tend to be longer acting, and that if I let myself become exhausted after taking dissociatives that I tend to become very emotional until I sleep.

 

[limonov]

limonov, I can identify with your experiences a lot and I use dissociatives much the way you do. I can't comment on the 3MeOs, but I can compare ketamine, MXE, PCP, 4MeOPCP, PCB (the mono-N-butyl version of PCP) and PCiP (the mono-N-isopropyl version of PCP). I found the 4MeOPCP more emotional than the previous three, but the last two were especially so, with long, cathartic periods of deep longing and mourning, along with joyful periods, but not so much laughter. What seems to be the trend here is that analogs lacking a ketone group and having a secondary amine have this more emotional character. However, I've also noticed that they tend to be longer acting, and that if I let myself become exhausted after taking dissociatives that I tend to become very emotional until I sleep.

That's very interesting- not only am I glad that other people recognise my esoteric description, but also it poses a lot of very strange questions about how our emotions actually function. Like 'emotion' may actually be multiple interlocking mechanisms- the 'emotional stimuli' and the 'active reciever of the emotional stimuli' could be completely different things and due to the binding differences some arylcyclohexylamines only partially 'deactivate' your emotions (psychological dissociation), resulting in a state where you are highly dissociated and 'ego-less', yet you're simultanously getting all nostalgic and weepy. This then could go some way to explaining the 'dissociative effects' produced by certain types of seizures (complex-partial seizures, for instance) and strokes, as well as relating to the 'negative' symptoms of schizophrenia (the lack of emotion, confused speech, a refusal to believe that they are schizophrenic etc. 'negative' is used in contrast to 'positive' symptoms of schizophrenia, most notably aural and occasionally visual hallucinations).

I have the feeling that the banning and moral panic that surrounded PCP (particularly in the '80s and a little in the early 90s, mainly in the USA) and the knee-jerk reactions of politicians have set back science's ability to properly study and understand mental illness like 50 years. It's ridiculous that there is this drug that induces ALL the effects of schizophrenia (both positive and negative) and yet it is barely researched, let alone used in complex investigations into the causes of schizophrenia. The dopergenic theory of schizophrenia is bullshit- it doesn't account for any of the negative symptoms, besides meth psychosis while similar to schizophrenia...is very very different from schizophrenia. It has more in common with 'mania with delusions/paranoia' than schizophrenia, because the negative symptoms aren't there. I mean, most real schizophrenics can barely look after themselves half of the time- they don't/forget to eat, they often have a great deal of trouble making friends and forming a 'social-support-network', they are constantly being bombarded by 'meaning' that is 'intended for them' specifically- what I mean is generally they are crazy, but they're doing crazy things- that's why so many schizophrenics end up homeless, if they lack any actual caring support they'll just forget to pay their rent and get evicted, or they can't fill out/present all the necessary paperwork to get benefits/bank accounts which are necessary to get benefits. Really, meth psychosis is a walk in the park compared to real schizophrenics having bad 'episodes'- but from what I have seen and experienced, PCP and its derivatives very closely mimic schizophrenia in every regard. Even DXM at particular doses (DXM specifically, not DXO) mimics schizophrenia more closely than fucking amphetamine-psychosis. The whole dopergenic theory of schizophrenia seems to be designed simply to sell a whole fucking new generation of drugs- SSRIs and all their fucking cousins.

It's sad that this is being discussed on a harm reduction forum, while fucking respected journals continue to treat the dopergenic theory of schizophrenia as the 'currently accepted theory'. I mean, I'm a fucking idiot from a backwater country with half of a couple of degrees. I suppose it's different when you have your career to think about- going against the tide essentially = attacking prominant and influential members of academia, thus limiting your employment/promotion oppotunities.

 

[Halif]

I completely agree with what you say in your last paragraph, Liminov. It's frustrating to think about how much knowledge, how many breakthroughs, could be attained without the constraints of the established medical community slowing things to a crawl.

And as for this:

I'm a fucking idiot from a backwater country with half of a couple of degrees

You can't be too much of an idiot because I think your posts are some of the most interesting I've read on this forum.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I found the 4MeOPCP more emotional than the previous three, but the last two were especially so, with long, cathartic periods of deep longing and mourning, along with joyful periods

So I'm not the only person who found that drug to make oneself extremely wistful? How interesting, and here I had thought that was just the result of my individual personality using it in an unhealthy manner.

Not to digress from the topic at hand...carry on.

 

[Mugz]

had a 50mg baggy a couple weeks ago and it was either bunk(although from reputable source) or my MXE tolerance made it bunk, experienced no real stimulation or dissociative effects consuming the whole 50mg over about 7-9 hours.

Trying again tonight, powder looks more like the first time i had it. Have recently consumed ethylphenidate which may alter the experience.

First time i had it it was very visual and colourful and stimulating with dissociation too, but eventually leading to anhedonia and boredom.

3rd time hopefully will be the best attempt

 

[Dr Enoch]

Just to pop back in

I probably had about 30-40mg over the evening plus about 100mg of 6-apb

Then beers and about 3mg of etizolam (on the megabus)

This had NOTHING like the effect that MXE was having on me - easy tipping into utter lunacy. Lots of body sensation and obvious fuckeredness however, much more under my control. I wondered whether oral adminstration (vs insufflation) would have been a bit more exciting. No sub for MXE at present but will keep trying

 

[knock]

I find 3-MeO-PCP considerably more potent than MXE. More euphoric and manic and longer lasting. Weird that people have such different responses to it.

 

[Mugz]

Yeah, it does seem to affect different people at totally different dosages in crazy different ways, from the same vendor I've bought 50mg three times so far now, the first time was very stimulating and euphoric at first turning into anhedonia, the second one was just after quite a bit of mxe and had a bigger tolerance and 50mg over 7 hours did pretty much nothing, the last bag was kind of inbetween in terms of effects, most enjoyable out of the three. Hoping the stuff that should be arriving tomorrow will be good stuff, I have a suspicion that the second time I had it they sent mxe by mistake as I should have been a raving looney from 50mg over 7 hours.

Looking forward to experimenting with it tomorrow.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Mugz, I've had similar variation to that with MXE. If your source isn't suspect, might it just be a variation in effects? I feel dissociatives in general can produce vastly different responses even with the same dosage, in different trials - but with dopaminergic dissociatives like MXE, this can go a step further.

It might have also been related to how you used it, since for me I find with MXE I was often tempted to take my dose in several redoses, but when I did this, the only thing I got out of it was delusions and a long duration - to achieve strong effects from a particular dose, it all had to be consumed in one, maximum two doses - otherwise I'd usually have to increase the dosage threefold or more.

Just speculation of course.

 

[Mugz]

I trust my source very well to be honest so I don't understand the difference in effects, your suggestion seems to fit most as you have experienced it with MXE, and to be honest, so have I. Dissasociatives do seem to have a hit or miss effect sometimes, as I guess do conventional psychs too, every time you do it again you will get something different from it.

 

[knock]

I trust my source very well to be honest so I don't understand the difference in effects, your suggestion seems to fit most as you have experienced it with MXE, and to be honest, so have I. Dissasociatives do seem to have a hit or miss effect sometimes, as I guess do conventional psychs too, every time you do it again you will get something different from it.

Thing is I find my doses of 3-MeO-PCP are very reliable. 15-20mg consistently produces similar effects. But hey ho, YMMV!

 

[Mugz]

I think it may have been the circumstances with each batch too, as the first time I did it I hadn't taken anything but a small bit of MXE beforehand, that was the most intense time, the second time where nothing happened I had been on a bit of a MXE bender so tolerance may have played a part, and the third time was on the back of a mini ethylphenidate session so that could have played a part too.

 

[knock]

I went on a wee mini-bender on Tuesday night (actually you inspired me to indulge, Mugz!), I took about 25mg MXE twice then started on 3-MeO-PCP. I had great fun but I wasn't normal again (well, I wasn't me again) till teatime last night, so about 18 hours duration.