The Big & Dandy 2C-C Thread

[djfriendly]

having just come down from my first experience 2c-c (my first experience with a 'research' phenethylamine) i would like to say please be careful of dosing...i took just 15mg orally had an experience slightly more pronounced than what others were experiencing at 30mg doses. and even though it seems visuals are rarely observed in most of these 30mg instances, i had very pronounced visuals.

just a note that some people ARE sensitive and i may have been unprepared if i had taken double the dose i gave myself.

My wife and I both trip pretty hard, including very strong CEVs and noticeable OEVs, from doses of 2C-C in the 30mg range. We usually take 36mg. It's been years since we've eaten some 2C-C. I guess it's getting on about time, it being my wife's favorite psychedelic. I think it's pretty great stuff but I often find the onset a bit much to take.

Jamshyd posted a really great picture showing what I've found to be a pretty common visual theme with 2C-C, vast multi-hued clockwork. It's nothing compared with the real thing, but if you've seen this it'll ring a bell:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=5920648&postcount=175

 

[General Patton]

Hi, just came back from 2C-C land to report that all is well... Bubblegum fairy fountains and all sorts of pleasantries of the present moment are all in working order... If you care to entertain them, that is.

Yeah I didn't have any gelcaps on me so this was my first time tasting and ingesting the pure chemical. Yuck! I would describe it like licking the bottom of a printer cartridge to see the colours! I ate some banana bread with cranberry juice to ease the comeup and provide energy, which it did for when I embarked on a typical manic trip walk. I could sense positive social vibes and people responded accordingly, more people talked to me that night than any other! Which un/fortunately dampened my concentration on my music, which was effectively doing it's job blowing my mind apart at 1200mph as usual.

What I felt tonight was a nice reminder of the goods that staying mindful of the present moment can yield, but it was not explicitly spiritual... Sort of like a nice pleasant grace, being allowed to soak in the light, but not really in that deep, permanent "shake your being" way like 4-AcO-DMT, 2C-E, LSD or something similar. My how these psychedelic phenethylamines can make interesting allies... I can't wait for 2C-T-7, if it has this body feeling with even more spirituality, if it's indeed possible to qualitatively account for something like that... I wanted to experience a longer 2C-type trip this summer on a low dose of LSD + 2C-E/D, but 2C-T-7 basically fits that profile and you don't need to worry about redosing, matching peaks etc.

 

[djfriendly]

Neat mini-report. Just how many mg deep into 2C-C land were you, General?

I agree very much that 2C-C is about experiencing the here and now for all it's worth. I've gone pretty deep with it, but it is much more sensual than spiritual to me. My wife feels differently.

 

[ectolysergic]

My wife and I both trip pretty hard, including very strong CEVs and noticeable OEVs, from doses of 2C-C in the 30mg range. We usually take 36mg. It's been years since we've eaten some 2C-C. I guess it's getting on about time, it being my wife's favorite psychedelic. I think it's pretty great stuff but I often find the onset a bit much to take.

Jamshyd posted a really great picture showing what I've found to be a pretty common visual theme with 2C-C, vast multi-hued clockwork. It's nothing compared with the real thing, but if you've seen this it'll ring a bell:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=5920648&postcount=175

interesting. glad to hear im not the only one experiencing an onset like that. the visual effects i got were some short trailing of moving things at times and every so often certain objects would appear unfocused. text had a layered effect and appeared to leave a short trail making itself appear smoky to me. text was fun. other than that i saw mostly morphing and patterning particularly in the woodgrain of my kitchen cabinets and in the texture on the walls and ceiling.

knowing im not the only one with the discomfort coming up i may slightly increase my dose next time and see if it has any impact on visuals. my only complaint other than the come up and short duration (3 hours or so ime) was that halfway through the experience i could of easily have fallen asleep. perhaps i will drink some tea next time =)

 

[General Patton]

Neat mini-report. Just how many mg deep into 2C-C land were you, General?

I agree very much that 2C-C is about experiencing the here and now for all it's worth. I've gone pretty deep with it, but it is much more sensual than spiritual to me. My wife feels differently.

I took 25mg, not a high dose by any means... It actually reminded me alot of my 2C-D experience at 25mg, but even shorter due to the means of administration. Took the chemical at 11:11pm and was finishing the plateau by 1:30am, ~2.5 hours, my shortest trip yet! I quite enjoyed it in that way, just a nice little slice of paradise within an evening... I got the sensual vibe, but I also felt it could be quite spiritual given the right circumstances, looking up at the night sky was very beautiful. I don't know how redosing would work with this one, since it's so short and sweet anyways, I think it might be a bit of a tease as far as always feeling like you need more... I think with 2C's it's better just to settle on a dose for the night and explore it fully with different activities. I found that though not incredibly visual or stunning, this experience was fully within the realms of my most memorable psychedelic trips for it's warmth and clarity.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think next trip I will try to really get into 2C-C... I have used it as an adjuct to other substances (especially 2C-E) quite a few times and tried lower doses, but never really had great effects from it on its own. I'll try it rectally at maybe 30-40mg. How does that sound to people? Is that too much?

 

[invert]

Jitteriness: does it scale with dose; and why does it happen?

I've taken a 36 mg oral dose of 2C-C for the first time recently (see my trip report here for details) and, although it was a lovely trip in many ways, I experienced quite uncomfortable jitters during the come-up, most intensely for 15 to 30 minutes between two and three hours after dosing. My legs (and other parts of my body) just couldn't stop moving. I've experienced something like this on 2C-E and, more notably, on DiPT; but I don't believe I've had it this bad before. Some caffeine had been consumed, but less - if anything - than I've usually had when taking other psychedelics in the past.

I have a few questions about this...

1) Those who have experienced such jitters on 2C-C: do you find that this scales with dose? In other words, if I got it bad at 36 mg, can I expect to get it worse at, say, 50 mg; or does this stay fairly constant across doses?

2) Do non-oral routes offer less or more of the jitters (in terms of duration or intensity)?

3) What on earth are these jitters? Various possibilities occur to me:

a) General stimulation
b) Objective temperature changes (e.g. fever) inducing shivers
c) A toxic reaction
d) Motor psychedelia (i.e. neurons in the motor cortex being stimulated in odd ways much as neurons in the visual cortex are stimulated in odd ways by psychedelics)

Of the above options, I'd hope that it was (d), as I think that's the only option that would be unlikely to have negative health consequences. By a staggering coincidence, option (d) is also the option I think is most likely...

It really doesn't seem anything like the sort of stimulation induced by true stimulants: the stimulation - if that's what it is - seems mostly confined to the legs, with heart rate not particularly notably raised (although I didn't take my pulse effectively during this experience, so I can't be sure). The jitters and discomfort went away as the peak of the other effects arrived, which seems to me to suggest toxicity is unlikely. Objective temperature changes are possible, I guess, but to induce such tremors one would need to be in high fever, and I don't believe I was in high fever: no other symptoms support that... I was not delirious, sweating, etc.

But what do you people think of this? Am I right to reject stimulation, fever, and toxicity as causes of the jitters during come-up? Is the idea of motor cortex psychedelia a reasonable one? Does anyone know of any research that could speak to this question?

 

[hamhurricane]

^^^
i think you said that you have taken DiPT ten times (!) your probs one of the worlds top DiPT eaters, i would be especially interested in reading anything you might have to say about that substance because it is truly my favorite psychedelic. you should write a retrospective TR!!

any problems with tinnitus?

 

[invert]

^^^
i think you said that you have taken DiPT ten times (!) your probs one of the worlds top DiPT eaters, i would be especially interested in reading anything you might have to say about that substance because it is truly my favorite psychedelic. you should write a retrospective TR!!

Oh, I certainly intend to submit DiPT TRs. I may do a retrospective, but I hope soon to embark on a more rigorous study of DiPT's auditory effects. I have a series of psychophysical experiments planned to conduct on myself while on various doses of DiPT. Shouldn't take long to program the stimuli for this, when I get round to it, and I have recently restocked with DiPT, so I may do this fairly soon. I'll certainly document the results of these experiments on bluelight when I have them. Have you written TRs on DiPT? I'd be interested to read them (if I haven't already, of course - I may well have, terrible memory for names): there's so little on DiPT out there.

any problems with tinnitus?

No... well, I had tinnitus during 100 mg doses invariably, and sometimes at the peak of 70 mg doses; but I wasn't troubled by it, once I reconceptualized it as closed-ear audials. The tinnitus is like the auditory equivalent of a general brightening or haloing of the visual scene, or perhaps like a glowing light visible when you lie down in the dark, since I only noted it in 'silence'. And I found that it was attentionally modulated: if I chose to attend to a more interesting region of frequency-space, I found much more intriguing patterns of sound than the high-pitched tinnitus, and the latter faded in favour of the former: synthy chord sequences and bloops and all sorts of lovely complex audials started to blossom. I've never had tinnitus persist beyond the trip.

ETA: I've posted a retrospective summary not as a TR but in the PD DiPT thread...

 

[djfriendly]

@ invert: We've never gone above 36mg, so I can't address your scaling issue. The term that comes to my mind regarding the 2C-C come-up is "kundalini awakening." The last time we took it, I spent around 15 minutes squirming around in bed wondering what the hell to do with "all this energy." Once it passes, I'm fine. I do not think it is a toxic or simple physiological reaction.

When I've taken 2C-C while already on MDMA, I did not get this response, which is similar to my experience with 2C-B as well.

 

[invert]

@ invert: We've never gone above 36mg, so I can't address your scaling issue. The term that comes to my mind regarding the 2C-C come-up is "kundalini awakening." The last time we took it, I spent around 15 minutes squirming around in bed wondering what the hell to do with "all this energy." I do not think it is a toxic or simple physiological reaction

Interesting. You are suggesting a more spiritual / psychological cause? I've wondered on occasion whether psychedelic jittery come-ups are a result of an unresolved struggle between the baseline and psychedelic mental states; which would seem to fit with my experience of it usually heralding psychedelia, and of the jitteriness seeming to dissipate as soon as I become fully involved in the trip. But then, given that these are coming-up effects, I guess that would be inevitable anyway.

When I've taken 2C-C while already on MDMA, I did not get this response, which is similar to my experience with 2C-B as well.

Oh, very interesting indeed! I don't suppose you've investigated whether methylone serves similarly in this respect? Oh, and what doses have you used for the 2C-C/MDMA combination?

 

[General Patton]

Wow, definately get back to us on those DiPT experiments... That's fascinating.

I can't add much to your 2C-C investigation, other than I too experienced shivers and shuddering while under the influence. I also noticed when I walked outside the muscle tension/spasms worsened, as it's been cold and windy here recently. In fact yesterday, a full day after dosing, I went for a walk and was almost incapacitated by a kind of rubbery weakness all over, which I attributed to poor muscle tone and lack of energy.

I'm not sure which one of your hypothesis my evidence supports... One could easily attribute these symptoms to the psychedelic stimulation this chemical brings, but the fact is that the other 2C's I've sampled don't give me these particular effects, nor other psychedelics in general. 2C-D actually made me conscious of the energy currents in my body, letting me visualize and relax muscle groups using meditation. I don't think the chemical is toxic, or even borderline toxic, as the 100mg+ doses of our fellow BLer's would have rooted that out pretty quickly. Most likely it's due to the motor cortex receptors being stimulated along with the usual 5ht receptors psychedelics usually activate. I feel that this one is a little more disturbing to the body than most 2C's, perhaps a tradeoff considering it's relatively mild mental effects... If there was any scholarly research done on this chemical I would definitely like to see it

 

[invert]

Cool, thanks for those thoughts... I am increasingly inclining to seeing the jitters as motor psychedelia. Certainly, reconceptualizing them thus may make them a less troubling experience (just as with DiPT's closed-ear audials).

 

[Erebus-]

Would 2C-C go well with a candyflip?

 

[Xorkoth]

invert - thanks for your posts (especially in the DiPT thread, which I responded to a well)... great starting contributions! Welcome to Bluelight! I hope you'll share more with us as time goes on.

Regarding 2C-C, I haven't had a lot of experience with it except as a modulation to other psychedelics (which it's good for). So unfortunately I can't help you in this. However, I wanted to mention that 2C-C mixed at low doses (10-15mg) with other psychedelics seems to impart some of its calmness and smooth bodyload, and also changes the visuals to give it more of a 2C-C flavor. I have done it with 2C-E, 2C-I, and 5-MeO-MiPT (actually only in combo with 2C-E and 5-MeO-MiPT - 10mg 2C-C + 6mg 2C-E rectally and 2mg of 5-MeO-MiPT orally... this combo is really great, nootropic and euphoric and very nice feeling on the body).

 

[invert]

invert - thanks for your posts (especially in the DiPT thread, which I responded to a well)... great starting contributions! Welcome to Bluelight! I hope you'll share more with us as time goes on.

Thank you for the kind welcome! Bluelight (and especially PD and ADD) has been both a useful resource and a fascinating read for me for a while; so it's nice to have some small things to contribute.

Regarding 2C-C, I haven't had a lot of experience with it except as a modulation to other psychedelics (which it's good for). So unfortunately I can't help you in this. However, I wanted to mention that 2C-C mixed at low doses (10-15mg) with other psychedelics seems to impart some of its calmness and smooth bodyload, and also changes the visuals to give it more of a 2C-C flavor. I have done it with 2C-E, 2C-I, and 5-MeO-MiPT (actually only in combo with 2C-E and 5-MeO-MiPT - 10mg 2C-C + 6mg 2C-E rectally and 2mg of 5-MeO-MiPT orally... this combo is really great, nootropic and euphoric and very nice feeling on the body).

Great, I did hope that 2C-C might combine well, that sounds promising.

Regarding the jitters that I experienced most notably on 2C-C (but also, to lesser extents, on other psychedelics) and which I understand are a not uncommon experience for many people on various psychedelics... I have another vague hypothesis to add to the mix: could the jitters be due not to serotonergic partial agonism (motor cortex psychedelia) but due to (perhaps indirect) dopaminergic antagonism (or some mechanism that would decrease the availability of dopamine - maybe inverse agonism?)? A few things seem to be consistent with this hypothesis:

• Predosing with MDMA is reported to prevent the jitters
• I have sometimes found that, with milder jitters, orgasm appears to bring the jitters to an end (though this may be coincidental - have others experienced this?)
• The main thing that MDMA and orgasms have in common, in terms of their receptor activity, is - I believe - dopamine release
• Movement disorders such as the jitteriness in Parkinson's disease are associated with lack of dopamine
• Psychedelics are - on the whole - not liable to habit-forming, and some have been considered useful in breaking addiction. Addiction is mediated by dopamine activity, and I would imagine dopamine antagonism (or some such mechanism) might be consistent with addiction-breaking

Unfortunately, my knowledge of neurochemistry is fairly minimal, and I don't know whether my vague ideas of dopamine antagonism fit with any real mechanism in the brain. Does anyone have any thoughts on the plausibility of this hypothesis?

ETA: If the orgasm and Parkinson's things are red herrings, the efficacy of MDMA as a pre-dose might lend more support to the motor cortex psychedelia explanation: perhaps MDMA is competitive with psychedelics at the relevant serotonin receptors in the motor cortex, and prevents partial agonist activity in that region. (Again, disclaimer: when it comes to neurochemistry, I am likely to be talking bollocks. )

 

[|CFH|MoRiDiN]

It sounds just as decent a theory as anyone else will spew forth.....

actually it sounds like you're generally right .....

 

[invert]

It sounds just as decent a theory as anyone else will spew forth.....

actually it sounds like you're generally right .....

I guess it would be tested most effectively by comparing jitters on various psychedelics when pre-dosed or not pre-dosed with varying doses of a selective dopamine releaser. Which drugs (if any) would release dopamine alone?

If the dopamine hypothesis does explain the jitters, does this indicate that sufficiently high doses (or sufficiently frequent usage) of psychedelics that are more likely to cause jitters might lead to permanent parkinsonism?

ETA: Should I maybe take these questions to ADD?

By the way, I've noticed that my 36 mg 2C-C trip (three days ago) has left me with occasional aftereffects: specifically, an occasional tendency for temporal blurring of visual movement, as typically experienced during 2C-x trips. The effects come out most notably on cannabis. I had such aftereffects after 25 mg 2C-B many years ago, for a few weeks or perhaps months; but have never had them from my 2C-E experiences, or from my recent low dose 2C-B trip.

 

[Xorkoth]

I think ADD would be the place to go for further discussion along these lines... you will probably get much better responses there. More knowledgeable ones at least.

 

[invert]

Hmm, still seem to be getting occasional tracers from my 2C-C trip of 4.5 days ago. I don't know, though, whether this is a persistent perceptual distortion, or rather a cognitive/attentional thing: perhaps such quirks of visual motion processing happen all the time, but subliminally, and we only notice them if we have had our attention drawn to them recently, e.g. by a psychedelic.

I think ADD would be the place to go for further discussion along these lines... you will probably get much better responses there. More knowledgeable ones at least.

Thanks, I have now done so.