The Big & Dandy 25I-NBOMe Thread (3rd edition)

[Sepher]

Currently, 72% of people think that 500-1000ug is a good STARTING DOSE. Does that mean that everyone should go out and start titrating from 1mg upwards. Of course not

Of course not indeed, but not for the reason you put if I understand you corectly. It probably tells us 72% think 500ug is a good starting dose which IME and reading around seems entirely reasonable for most subjects. Poll of this sort can never fully take into account those who may for whatever reason be extremely sensitive, or conversely, extremely insensitive so got to expect that the subject uses the common sense they were born with but 500ug as a typical starting dose on average is I think quite reasonable and makes more sense than suggesting everyone starts at 200ug or something daft which for me at least would be completely ineffective.

At the same time I do agree that people seem to have answered irresponsibly and it does defeat the purpose.

I don't think me voting in the 500ug-1000ug range given the limited, unqualified options available is irresponsible in the slightest for reasons given above.

 

[zn13bt]

The problem with the poll is the 500ug-1mg option, it needs to be subdivided into two parts at least. For me, a 500ug dose is a +1 while 1mg is a +3, and this seems to be true of several other posters to this thread.

Also, I wasn't sure which option to choose because I wanted to pick 500ug but it's listed twice (as are the other doses on the boundaries between ranges). If we could make it clearer which single range it's supposed to be included in, that would help.

 

[twelvesevndi]

I'd just like to add this, to further illustrate my point: Currently, 72% of people think that 500-1000ug is a good STARTING DOSE. Does that mean that everyone should go out and start titrating from 1mg upwards. Of course not...

I hate to bitch but I totally agree with SA... scrap the poll and start again. we don't need every 200 ug increment but there is quite a lot going on between .5 and 1 mg.

Sepher, i think people really might see that poll and start at 1 mg because there are many blotters dosed at 1 mg available and because of the "i want to trip balls NOW" mentality that gets people into trouble with this drug.
the overly eager individuals may still think "oh if 1 mg is a good starting dose, I'm going to take 2 mg because i'm a badass and i can handle whatever is coming my way"

 

[2002Tii]

For what it's worth I'm gonna have to side with SA on this one too, also if the poll keeps its current format I feel like the 500-1000ug range should be split in half and/or maybe make 500ug it's own option. Also on the topic of not wanting to set a max because people may go over that how is that worse when 1mg can be inferred from this poll to be an ok starting point. Wouldn't that just mean the irresponsible people would think that it is safe to go above 1mg?

 

[Survived Abortion]

I'm glad most everyone agrees!

To answer your question about how we are supposed to know when to edit posts to add warnings, in the end that remains a matter of judgment but I agree that a guideline helps. For that I am not so much interested in the average dose people answer in a poll as I am in the lowest dose we can find reports on that people have gotten unacceptable side effects on. So not just vasoconstriction but worrisome symptoms or signs that should worry us.

Soli, this illustrates my point. Yes, we need to find out the lowest doses that people are suffering worrisome side-effects such as those you listed, so that we can put warnings such as:

[Erowid Note: 26 H.B. Woodrose seeds is considered an extremely high dose, see H.B. Woodrose Dose Chart]​

But, the dose at which such warnings are applied needs to be an agreed upon consensus, an average of opinions. For example, if you look through all the Big and Dandy's for your answer, it's possible you will come across one or two people who have reported cold hands and feet whilst taking an allergy dose at 200ug, but that doesn't mean that 200ug should become the upper limit beyond which we put warnings. The idea behind the poll should be to chart the mean dose at which people are reporting difficult trips related to physical distress.

You cannot leave such a thing down to mod discretion.

In the meantime, the current poll is a hazard for the reasons others above me have cogently highlighted.

 

[theUniverse]

Anyone know what the best solvent for 25i fb would be? Could convert it to HCl but would rather skip that if it will go into something like iso or acetone

I'd recommend you at least convert it to a salt, acetate is easy. It's been posted tons of times already, search back through the second edition, I know it is in there.

Nobody is going to trip on uncomplexed if they're taking tabs, common sense goes a long way too. Clearly they were complexed. The edibles completely got rid of any anxiety, tenseness, anything on the come up. There may not have been much vasoconstriction and body load to start with on such a small dose, but I'm saying there was nothing negative to be found. Zero body load. I'll probably try 300 without anything extra in a few weeks to see, but I'll definitely get the come up anxiety and a bit of bodyload from that.

What are you talking about? I trip on uncomplexed tabs. I don't have access to a chemical to aid in absorption, and don't trust blotters others have made. I also go with blotter over other ROA because of the ease of dosing, and not having to worry about other people not understanding how to dose liquid.

I really have a problem with people thinking "hey you should just assume everything, don't ask a question, just guess, do you have no common sense?"

Also, the poll isn't too helpful, the ROA, different salts, and if it was complexed all factor in to how much you should start with. I went with 200-500ug, even though I started with 1mg of acetate material on tab, which was a good starting dose, but would not be a good starting dose for complexed blotter, HCL salt, or nasal/IV/IM administration.

 

[doomsdayguy]

What are you talking about? I trip on uncomplexed tabs. I don't have access to a chemical to aid in absorption, and don't trust blotters others have made. I also go with blotter over other ROA because of the ease of dosing, and not having to worry about other people not understanding how to dose liquid.

I really have a problem with people thinking "hey you should just assume everything, don't ask a question, just guess, do you have no common sense?"

You have complexed 25i or HCL powder (which is essentially the same thing as complexing, with a little less bioavailability). If you didn't, you'd have to take 20 times a regular dose in order to get the same effect, but since it doesn't absorb quickly at all, 20mg still probably wouldn't have any noticeable effect. The point is, any low dose is going to either be complexed or HCL salt, which are pretty similar in terms of bioavailability.

ModEdit: 20mg of any form of bomamine could potentially be fatal. Freebase compounds are less well absorbed but will likely be active well under the 20x normal dose mark.

 

[theUniverse]

You have complexed 25i or HCL powder (which is essentially the same thing as complexing, with a little less bioavailability). If you didn't, you'd have to take 20 times a regular dose in order to get the same effect, but since it doesn't absorb quickly at all, 20mg still probably wouldn't have any noticeable effect. The point is, any low dose is going to either be complexed or HCL salt, which are pretty similar in terms of bioavailability.

20 times is a bit steep. 1mg was enough to trip with non-overwhelming visuals. 2.5mg of uncomplexed, acetate material produced overwhelming effects, everything was warping, moving patterns appear over everything. My jeans started producing these fabric "vines" that grew around my leg, then faded into nothing and repeated. Bright colors, and what me and my group have come to call the bloom effect, exactly like what happens in games when bloom is turned up, except instead of regular glare, its kaleidoscopic colors.

20mg would be overdose range, and not just tripping to hard, I'd reckon unless you are lucky you would suffer seizures.

I DO NOT have hcl or complexed material. I bought freebase powder, partly because of the price, partly because of the extra safety of accidental absorption through the lungs/skin contact.

 

[zn13bt]

To make things clear: Never, ever, EVER, take 20 milligrams of ANY NBOMe. EVER. You will most likely seize, or even DIE.

Really upsetting, the misinformation that keeps coming up in this thread.

 

[twelvesevndi]

^agreed.

i feel i should point out that, ime, the acetate is plenty powerful. 600 ug intranasal for ++/+++ (depends on the person)

 

[weadazoid]

THe HCL is a beautiful thing I guess... I mean for me who only has an interest in personal exploration it really does make sesne and thus far the 500ug was my threshold with a full 1mg being rather intense, but given my experience level a trully fun time.

I think 500 ug is a good place to start, as this does kinda seem dependent on personal chemistry, for some 500 UG may be very close to the sweet spot. For me I really look forward to another 1mg dose, but like I said I would really want to have this run on a day time thing, that way I could just go to sleep at a decent time.


Also as a side note yes I went from 500 ug to 1 mg, it was a TREMENDOUS jump... I would not jump to 1.5mg next. perhaps I would redose but only under perfect circumstances.... given that I would need a little more experience at 1mg




This stuff reads and reacts alot differently then LSD in terms on compounding the dosage. 500 ug felt like a very light MDMA dose, with a little of the LSD head space

1mg had full on effective strong musically reactive OEV's and an increadibly body high/ Euphoria.


I am fairly experienced and given what I have read on this sites (Blue and Erowid) I could see how even to an experienced psychonaught 2mg would be potencially disastrous unless well spaced out

 

[mozokev]

Don't people think that you should take a light dose to see how your body actually reacts to a new substance (after an allergy test)? I think I first dosed 150-200ug after doing a 50ug allergy test a few days before. I feel people are rushing this way too quickly considering there are reports of life threatening reactions with very reasonable doses.

 

[SONN]

IME 500 mics is a good starting dose for blotters (unless it's non complexed freebase in which case you might need a little bit more)

200 mics is a good starting dose for nasal

even less than that for vaporization.

 

[Survived Abortion]

Why is this poll still up?

 

[nAON]

I'd recommend you at least convert it to a salt, acetate is easy. It's been posted tons of times already, search back through the second edition, I know it is in there.

Yeah, my choice was either to salt it (I was just gonna do citrate using the stuff you get in needle exchange kits, seems 'cleaner' than using lemon juice or vinegar unless theres a reason not to) and liquid dose it, or lay it on blotter directly from freebase. Doing both seems like too much effort and could result in too much wastage (only doing 25-50mg)

 

[doomsdayguy]

20 times is a bit steep. 1mg was enough to trip with non-overwhelming visuals. 2.5mg of uncomplexed, acetate material produced overwhelming effects, everything was warping, moving patterns appear over everything. My jeans started producing these fabric "vines" that grew around my leg, then faded into nothing and repeated. Bright colors, and what me and my group have come to call the bloom effect, exactly like what happens in games when bloom is turned up, except instead of regular glare, its kaleidoscopic colors.

20mg would be overdose range, and not just tripping to hard, I'd reckon unless you are lucky you would suffer seizures.

I DO NOT have hcl or complexed material. I bought freebase powder, partly because of the price, partly because of the extra safety of accidental absorption through the lungs/skin contact.

I'm convinced you have the HCL and were lied to about it being freebase, at least given your experiences. Freebase does not work bucally at all unless you take a ton (I overshot on the 20mg... it'd be more around 10mg)

Remember, I'm talking about taking freebase bucally/sublingually. If you snort 10mg you will die. If you IV 10mg you will die. We're talking about blotters in this context though, and the freebase just will not absorb well or fast enough at any dose. HPBCD complex is essentially a condom that goes over the 25i molecule to transport it across cell membranes and get it into your bloodstream. The freebase is only about 10-20% absorbant, HCL 60-70%, and complexed freebase 90-95%. You were not sold freebase if you are able to use blotters to take it bucally/sublingually, it just doesn't work that way.

To make things clear: Never, ever, EVER, take 20 milligrams of ANY NBOMe. EVER. You will most likely seize, or even DIE.

Really upsetting, the misinformation that keeps coming up in this thread.

It's not misinformation unless you completely strip it of the context. Although 20mg is a high figure, I was more just exaggerating to show how ridiculous it is that this guy doesn't understand how non active freebase is when taken bucally/sublingually.

I'm starting to wonder if the vast difference in experiences at different doses has to do with improper knowledge of which compound you have. 1mg of complexed freebase sounds like his trip on 2.5 of HCL powder.

 

[Solipsis]

OK wiped the polls - now before a new one is made, what about the following options for the maximum acceptable dose [without tolerance]:
- up to 250 ug
- up to 500 ug
- up to 750 ug
- up to 1000 ug
- up to 1500 ug
(- up to 2000 ug)

Would this be fine the same for all 25B, 25C, 25D and 25I ?

 

[Transform]

I don't think it's fair to apply it to all the bomamines. 25B is a good 20-30% more potent than 25I.

I'm not convinced anyone who has dosed properly could suggest 1.5-2mg as a starting dose. Would it be worth specifying that this is an oral dose?

 

[jesuspeople666]

this is my third time i try with this stuff... last time was 10 days ago, today i tried with one and a half blotter (supposed to be around 1.5 mg) and i dont have any visuals at all, my feelings and thinking are clearly different but visuals are not there and i dont know what to look for, now i sit here 4 hours after taken the drug and thinking to myself is this trip over now? i think this drug doesent work at me at all????????????????

 

[nAON]

^ sounds like you got shit blotters