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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy 1P-LSD Thread - Volume 2

I mean impurities. Slight impurities definately have an effect.
Do you know this from a solid chemistry standpoint or is this your opinion simply based on the perceived subjectively different effects from batches?
If so how do you know different batches that have varying effects haven't been other Lysergermides or mixtures of them ?
(I think there's a thread all about this debate)
How do you know that the differences in effects aren't dose related because no one can say how much is on a hit of street acid with certainty?
 
Do you know this from a solid chemistry standpoint or is this your opinion simply based on the perceived subjectively different effects from batches?
If so how do you know different batches that have varying effects haven't been other Lysergermides or mixtures of them ?
(I think there's a thread all about this debate)
How do you know that the differences in effects aren't dose related because no one can say how much is on a hit of street acid with certainty?
Well, you're absolutely right that i can't know these things for sure, since i know of no scientific double-blind study with control groups and so on, about this subject. It's folk-science, i guess.
 
ok let's have a discussion about this:

imagine a chemist producing a batch of LSD. the major impurity will be iso-LSD (as far as I know), which is proven to be inactive. then you might have some other minor impurities, maybe from precursors, solvents, etc. remember that LSD is incredibly potent as a drug. let's say that the batch is 90% pure, which is already very bad and if you're a skilled chemist, you should get at least 98% purity.

if your dose of LSD conntains 100µg of said batch, then only 10µg of it will be impurties, with higher quality only maybe 1µg or so. and most of it will be compounds -proven- to be inactive. not even something like strychnine will give you any noticeable effect at all at that dose, and there is no thing I am aware of being used for LSD synthesis that can ever have any effect in this kind of dose.

how come David Nichols, or other leading experts on LSD never talk about such things as "good" or "bad" LSD? because it has never been proven to be a real thing.
 
Moreover, LSD synthesis is not very complicated but it is not easy to perform. Only a skilled chemist can be succesful at it. There is no such thing as "bathtub LSD". You end up with LSD or something entirely different that is not likely to be psychoactive.
 
Well, maybe you're right. I spoke with chemists who've actually made LSD and they told me that there are good batches, and bad ones. But in the end it is just a matter of their opinion i guess, and i'm not a chemist myself, so i don't have any elaborate argument to offer here. Among users (including myself) there often seems to be consensus over a particular batch being good or not so good, but you're right that there can't be any certainty about what causes these differences in subjective experience.
But anyway, i find that the 1p-LSD i've had is pretty decent stuff and i would definately place it in the top ten of best acid i've ever had.
 
Hello, a new Bluelighter here. I've been lurking for a while, but this is my first post.

Some background, age 34, male, 16 years of experience with psychedelics, around 200-250 trips, more than half of them with LSD.

Recently, I had a couple of very intense experiences with 1P-LSD. First was with 1mg, I meant to take 500µg but screwed up a bit with dosing and ended up taking double. The 1P was acquired as powder and diluted in alcohol, then dosed volumetrically. The trip was very intense, as one would expect, and very LSD-like. It felt the same as my strongest experiences with Lucy. Huge visuals too. I felt it early, maybe 5-6min after dosing, and the last time I looked at the clock it was t+0:35 and I was already tripping hard. I noticed that there was no sedation, which I often get from big doses of L, but besides that, it was just as intense and visual. Maybe an hour into the trip, one of my two mates I was tripping with started getting paranoid suspecting we were planning on killing him. We managed to talk him down, but it took a while before he understood that no one was after him. And even after that, he managed to forget several times that he was indeed safe. That definitely had an impact on my trip. While it didn't turn into a bad trip for me, I was worried and it took a while to relax after the situation subsided. Later I learned that he had been threatened recently over a girl which was probably the reason he became so paranoid. Coming down, I thought I noticed some vasoconstriction in my hands, but we were playing hand percussion instruments so it was hard to tell. At that point everyone was feeling super. I'm all too familiar with vasoconstriction, since I was on tramadol before for my back problems and mixing it with L gave me a very strong effect. Once I was familiar with the distinct feeling, I knew that I had felt it before on big doses of L, but it just hadn't come to my attention because the effect was so light. There's more to that trip, but I'm trying to keep this short(ish) so let's move on.

My friend (the one who didn't get paranoid) said that he felt higher than he had ever been on L, and he has taken massive multi-milligram doses. For me it was around the same strength. He also claimed that it felt subtly different from L, whereas I could not make any distinction between the two. Two weeks passed, and we felt like tripping again. He had tripped once with 1P in the time between, starting with 300µg and boosting with another 300µg an hour later, resulting in an intense trip, but much less so than the first time. We decided on 500µg. Now the 1P was in sugar cubes, made with the same solution and definitely no dosage screw-ups this time. We dropped the cubes, just one each with 500µg in it for accurate measurement. I don't like eating sugar so I just bit it once to crumble it and swallowed. Now it took effect even faster. I could feel a definite treshold in 4 minutes, and two minutes later I started feeling bodily euphoria. That is not usual for me, I've always felt some degree of anxiety coming up on L though with big doses the phase shortens. This time there was absolutely none. Euphoria was the first real effect. Visuals started in under 10min. The trip came on very hard and fast, my last scribbling is +3 at T+00:14. Very soon after that I was floored. My friend has this lovely soft thick carpet which I was laying on, and he brought me a blanket so I was warm and cozy. At this point the bodily euphoria was huge almost MDMA-like, and I was also getting quite horny. Mentally I was in a very happy place, too. I don't know if I could stand up if I wanted to, probably so, but didn't care to try as most of what I was seeing was just fractals and navigating the room would have been difficult. This felt way more intense than any of my experiences with L, or the 1000µg 1P trip two weeks before. I don't really have words for it. I felt like falling asleep with my eyes open. As soon as I stopped thinking, I started to dissolve. Maybe I did lose consciousness at some point, it's hard to tell. But here was the sedation that was absent in the first experience. When I started coming back to my senses, three hours had passed since we ingested the stuff. I thought it was maybe an hour or so. Usually I experience time dilation when tripping, but this time it was the other way around. All the time my friend remained quite operational, and said he was not tripping nearly as hard as the first time. Seems his one week interval was not enough, but two weeks definitely was for me. I need to ask him how long I was silent laying there. From there the trip progressed with very nice visuals and good headspace, very much the usual LSD effect but I did notice a lot of morphing. My friend's face morphed into countless different characters. I seldom get morphing effects, usually it's just fractals. I could also control the intensity of the visuals with ease. Throughout the trip I felt exceptionally safe, there was no anxiety, not a slightest bit of fear, no dark side at all. At around 6h mark, the effect lessened considerably, just like with L. Soon after, I noticed vasoconstriction, pressure building up in my hands, then feet, and momentarily slightly in the face, too. It never progressed to a painful level, but was enough to be uncomfortable. It subsided in few hours. Why was it so pronounced this time, when I had taken double the dose two weeks before? It seemed to match the more intense psychedelic effect. Or maybe it's a vitamin thing, somewhere I read that niacin might help, and indeed with the on the day of the 1mg I had taken my usual vitamin dose which includes niacin, and with 500µg I hadn't for days. I believe it's actually a metabolite causing the vasoconstriction, as I've ever only felt it after the peak. Coming down, we smoked weed and I drank a few beers. Closing in on 12h mark, I was very tired but still could not get to sleep, so I took 500-700µg of alprazolam and fell asleep soon after. No chance of eating anything during the trip.

Anyhow, it seems to me that 1P is less predictable dose-response wise than regular L. Halving the dose never doubled the effects before. Last batch of L I had lasted me 2½ years with no such surprises. Maybe next time I'll take 250 and see what happens. :D Seems it might be potentially stronger, too. Though the strength of street acid is usually overrated, I'm still pretty damn sure I've taken over 500µg of L before, or else the best acid I've ever gotten my hands on was less than 50µg/hit. For now, I'm not fully buying the prodrug theory. Sure, it probably is a prodrug, but it seems there is something else going on, too. People here talk about a slower comeup, something I didn't notice but maybe with smaller doses? For the record, I had eaten very little during the day of the more intense trip, and had a practically empty stomach.
 
It's realy more like adding a whole new dimension to the whole lysergic experience. You have to be extremely carefull because you can easily take too much. It's thát powerfull.
Tell me about it. Loved 125mcg 1p-eth-lad, had done up to 250mcg 1p-lsd, so I combined 125mcg of each, and got my ass kicked. I'm hoping 150 1p-lsd+0.251p-eth-lad will be what I'm looking for. Trying it in 2 days!
 
Well, maybe you're right. I spoke with chemists who've actually made LSD and they told me that there are good batches, and bad ones. But in the end it is just a matter of their opinion i guess, and i'm not a chemist myself, so i don't have any elaborate argument to offer here. Among users (including myself) there often seems to be consensus over a particular batch being good or not so good, but you're right that there can't be any certainty about what causes these differences in subjective experience.
the problem is that often, when you get LSD, the person giving it to you will tell you some qualitative information about the product. or somebody who has had the same batch / blotter design as you will tell you something. so very often, people who buy LSD are already biased in how they expect their LSD dose to work. if one is generally susceptible to what people tell them about drugs (mostly because one isn't well informed in the first place), this will definitely influence the experience, especially with psychedelics simply due to the nature of their effects.

so when one buys LSD and, before they take it, hears that it is "dirty" or "amber" or whatnot, they will be more likely to experience side effects, simply because they will focus more on them. on the other hand, if something is "needlepoint" (*sigh*) and "clean", they will feel safer and assured that nothing will go wrong, so they are more likely to have a nice, care-free experience.

of course many people in the psychedelic "scene" eat that shit up, becaue they are already into "energies" and "vibrations" and such unscientific things, and in my opinion, that's why these rumors about "bad acid" are still so prevalent. and of course, dealers profit from this, because they can always claim that their LSD is "clean" when in reality they have no clue at all, and of course the users themselves have no way to check it either.

just the fact that none of the people, here on BL and also in real life, who tout "good vs bad" LSD, have ever provided any sort of explanation of the phenomenon (besides "impurities") is strong evidence this is all just a bunch of bullshit.
 
but fact is that most blotters tested by labs/the authorities test as LSD, not some other less known Lysergamides.
 
ehm with a modern analytical lab not so much, these days... it is well possible to detect impurities in a compound in the order of ppm... certain metal elements you can even go as low as ppb
 
I'm really not sure how the law checks drugs... Do they use something like a mass spectrometer for every single thing that's seized or a simple reagent?
Hmmmm I thought they needed a reference standard for checking drugs? Honestly, I'm not to sure how the authorities check suspect materials.
 
I'm really not sure how the law checks drugs... Do they use something like a mass spectrometer for every single thing that's seized or a simple reagent?
Hmmmm I thought they needed a reference standard for checking drugs? Honestly, I'm not to sure how the authorities check suspect materials.
That's the thing man! Their the law! They do whatever the fuck they want! Normally they'd use tests(GCMS/LCMS, field tests, reagents, etc!), but shit doesn't always work out like that! Unfortunately crime is ahead of them, and will remain that way until reform is had...
 
I can at least give you the example of the Netherlands, because I saw a government official on drug policy giving a lecture on this.

In the Netherlands, in almost every major city, there are bureaus where you can drop of a sample of any drug and they will get it to a lab the same week and publish all test result from the week together the following week. All tax funded. I am not aware of how many methods of analysis they use, but from what the official told, they are pretty thorough about it. And of course they will have standards, or how else are they going to test drugs they confiscate from people? I guess they will use HPLC, GC/MS, maybe NMR. So yes they do much more than reagent testing or other crude methods.

The NL government does this for harm reduction purposes (because the user providing the sample can get the analysis data anonymously) and also to be better able to monitor the drug market and even to give out warnings about dangerous drugs in circulation (eg fentanyl sold as heroin and similar things).

So to get to the point, the lecturer stated that the vast majority of blotter sold as LSD contained LSD and not some other obscure active compound. He was asked by an attendee about new Lysergamides in circulation, and he didn't really know about those, so you can expect that they don't really pop up often outside of the internet gray market. Of course you get some NBOMe misinterpretations, but this is a different story alltogether.

No indication that other Lysergamides are sold as LSD on a large scale, nor any link to centrally active impurities along LSD.

Unfortunately, a very small numer of nations is that progressive regarding drug testing...
 
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the problem is that often, when you get LSD, the person giving it to you will tell you some qualitative information about the product. or somebody who has had the same batch / blotter design as you will tell you something. so very often, people who buy LSD are already biased in how they expect their LSD dose to work. if one is generally susceptible to what people tell them about drugs (mostly because one isn't well informed in the first place), this will definitely influence the experience, especially with psychedelics simply due to the nature of their effects.

so when one buys LSD and, before they take it, hears that it is "dirty" or "amber" or whatnot, they will be more likely to experience side effects, simply because they will focus more on them. on the other hand, if something is "needlepoint" (*sigh*) and "clean", they will feel safer and assured that nothing will go wrong, so they are more likely to have a nice, care-free experience.

of course many people in the psychedelic "scene" eat that shit up, becaue they are already into "energies" and "vibrations" and such unscientific things, and in my opinion, that's why these rumors about "bad acid" are still so prevalent. and of course, dealers profit from this, because they can always claim that their LSD is "clean" when in reality they have no clue at all, and of course the users themselves have no way to check it either.

just the fact that none of the people, here on BL and also in real life, who tout "good vs bad" LSD, have ever provided any sort of explanation of the phenomenon (besides "impurities") is strong evidence this is all just a bunch of bullshit.

Maybe you're right. But i definately have had blotters that, when i took them had more side-effects like vaso-and bronchoconstriction. Ofcourse there simply could have just been different substances on them. On the other hand, i think that LSD is incredibly synergistic with many other substances. LSA for instance, seems to decrease the effects of 1p-LSD. Just a few seeds is enough to seriously decrease the effects of 1p-LSD, while just a few fresh morning glory seeds is enough to hugely amplify the effects of 1p-LSD. I don't find it implausible at all that a few micrograms of lysergic acid would negatively affect the experience, causing more vasoconstriction and so on. There are also substances that could be added in micro amounts, that would increase the quality of the experience. Atropine for instance. You would need only a very small amount to compensate for vaso as well as bronchoconstriction and improve the quality of the experience overall. Datura and brugmansia is used for this by shamans as an admixture to ayahuasca brews and brews based on san-pedro.
 
[MENTION=405810]Dracarys[/MENTION]
Maybe you're right. But i definately have had blotters that, when i took them had more side-effects like vaso-and bronchoconstriction. Ofcourse there simply could have just been different substances on them.
or maybe your reaction is psychological because of what you already expect from eating the blotter? again, nowadays, it is pretty unlikely to get another drug misinterpreted as LSD, except for N-Benzyl-Phenethylamines. And to an experienced user those should be distinguishable from LSD (from what I've heard and read, never took an NBOMe or similar drug myself).
i think that LSD is incredibly synergistic with many other substances. LSA for instance, seems to decrease the effects of 1p-LSD. Just a few seeds is enough to seriously decrease the effects of 1p-LSD, while just a few fresh morning glory seeds is enough to hugely amplify the effects of 1p-LSD.
this statement is unclear to me... so LSA seems to decrease the 1P-LSD's effect for you, but morning glory (containing LSA) amplifies it? but, and this is most important in this discussion: anecdotal reports are often interesting, but you cannot conclude anything specific from this.
I don't find it implausible at all that a few micrograms of lysergic acid would negatively affect the experience, causing more vasoconstriction and so on.
but this is highly improbable, close to being impossible. how is a couple of micrograms of anything supposed to do that? how should LSD magically cause such an incredible rise in potency of anything? if there were scientific evidence for such a thing, I guess we should already know about it, because it would be highly significant.
There are also substances that could be added in micro amounts, that would increase the quality of the experience. Atropine for instance. You would need only a very small amount to compensate for vaso as well as bronchoconstriction and improve the quality of the experience overall. Datura and brugmansia is used for this by shamans as an admixture to ayahuasca brews and brews based on san-pedro.
okay this even more far fetched than any "impurity" hypothesis. first of all, it would mean that the chemist deliberately adds something to the batch for whatever reason, and why would make anybody such an effort when LSD will sell just fine no matter what? also, I doubt that atropine (to pick your example) would do anything at all at a low microgram dose. but feel free to bring on some evidence.
 
Maybe you're right. But i definately have had blotters that, when i took them had more side-effects like vaso-and bronchoconstriction. Ofcourse there simply could have just been different substances on them. On the other hand, i think that LSD is incredibly synergistic with many other substances. LSA for instance, seems to decrease the effects of 1p-LSD. Just a few seeds is enough to seriously decrease the effects of 1p-LSD, while just a few fresh morning glory seeds is enough to hugely amplify the effects of 1p-LSD. I don't find it implausible at all that a few micrograms of lysergic acid would negatively affect the experience, causing more vasoconstriction and so on. There are also substances that could be added in micro amounts, that would increase the quality of the experience. Atropine for instance. You would need only a very small amount to compensate for vaso as well as bronchoconstriction and improve the quality of the experience overall. Datura and brugmansia is used for this by shamans as an admixture to ayahuasca brews and brews based on san-pedro.

I don’t know what other drugs you use mate but I suspect that these would affect much more your response to LSD than a few micrograms of impurities. I’m thinking about cannabinoids that can linger in your blood for days and even weeks after smoking. Nicotine/caffeine and LSD can induce strong vasoconstriction by their synergic effects and so on.
 
Fuckin' pseudoscience! People need to learn to use proven evidence! Not some BS they've heard or felt, then decided to call..."fact"!
 
This thread discussion has been off-topic for too long.

Let's bring it back to 1P-LSD, eh?
 
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