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The Big and Dandy Scale Thread (First wave - archived 10-31-07)

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I have the Tanita 1210 (+-2mg accuracy) and see that quite a few of you guys have the same model, and that it comes highly recommended. I quite like it myself, too, but do find that it 'drifts' pretty quickly.

Am I using it right? I turn it on, calibrate it with the supplied 20g weight. Then I place the little cup thingy that comes with it (which weighs 1436mg), zero the display again, and proceed to weigh my powder.

The problem I find is that once I have my desired amount of powder (say 20mg) in the cup on the scales, remove the powder from the cup, put the cup back on the scales, and suddenly the display is reading -0.002 or sometimes -0.004 :-(

This sez to me that my assumed 20mg pile of powder could possibly be actually 22mg or 24mg, and that's not even allowing for the 2mg tolerance of the scales, so in reality I could have up to 26mg.

What am I doing wrong? The scales are only 6 months old.

Thanks in advance,
Neo
 
Neo,

I'm starting to get the 'drift' with my Tanita too. And the thing hasn't been used that many times. Even with the wind shield closed, if you wait long enough, it will drift from between -0.002 all the way up to +0.004.

I can understand a bit of variation, but this seems a little much. My scale has never been dropped, subjected to shock, etc.

Make sure it's in the room where you plan on weighing for a while so there's no changes in temp, humidty, etc. They are really sensitive, but if anybody has any answers for similar issues, I'd be interested to hear.

-gp
 
Yes I get that same drift just when it sits still, and it's around 0.004g. It's really annoying, considering that with the 2C's or 5-meo DMT, 2mg can make all the difference.

I wonder if it's more accurate within certain ranges? Perhaps above 4 or 5 grams it's better. If I can find a 5 gram weight to stick on there along with the powder then I'll check it out.

I guess I should invest in some 0.001g scales but it's a lot of money. The 1210 cost me 185 quid and I've not used it all that much.

Love,
Neo
 
I started out with a Vector VX-10 scale and it is absolutely worthless, in these measurements I should say. You can NOT measure within 5-10 mg. I tried and payed the price of a bad trip.
Now I´ve got an Acculab VI-1 mg. This one ROCKS! And is absolutely top dollar quality! Of course it is a little expensive, BUT I think it´s worth the extra money to be somewhat "secure".

Peace
 
Neo1 said:
Yes I get that same drift just when it sits still, and it's around 0.004g. It's really annoying, considering that with the 2C's or 5-meo DMT, 2mg can make all the difference.

I wonder if it's more accurate within certain ranges? Perhaps above 4 or 5 grams it's better. If I can find a 5 gram weight to stick on there along with the powder then I'll check it out.

I guess I should invest in some 0.001g scales but it's a lot of money. The 1210 cost me 185 quid and I've not used it all that much.

Love,
Neo
Click to expand...

After calibrating it I always weigh a capsule and use it to hold whatever I'm weighing. I just add my desired weight of material to the capsule weight. The gelcaps I've been working with are pretty much all 94mg. I've had a few in the batch that were 92mg. So I just add my chemical weight to that.

Anyway, I tried putting the 20g callibration weight back on after callibrating and removing it and I still get the drift. Only now it's like 19.996g-20.004g :X This is weighing the callibration weight with the wind shield closed, on a steady oak desk. And the scale has been in the room (at the same temp and humidty) for months. So I don't think the drift has anything to do with weighing a small amount and therefore don't think adding a 4-5gm weight will help you. However, I do believe they are more accurate when weighing slighly more than just a few milligrams. So that's why I always use a capsule as part of what I'm weighing. It adds almost 100mg to the weight.

I've been looking at other scales and it's getting really tempting to get out the damn VISA and just buy something with 0.2mg precision. I really hate to drop the cash, but I found a Sartorius GC-503 on the web for $899 that looks absolutely SWEET. Maybe there are other balances less expensive and with similar precision? Of course I'll probably just be buying something that drifts in 0.2mg increments instead of 2mg increments, but I can live with that.

I used to be very comfortable with my Tanita, but at some point in time I plan on working with 5-MeO-DMT and 5-MeO-AMT, so I don't think using a scale with 2mg precision and having a 6mg drift is acceptable with these chemicals. If it doesn't start behaving better, it will need to be replaced. I've also been pushing the dose range to my upper limit with things such as 4-Aco-MiPT and 4-OH-MiPT and I don't need an extra 6mg more than I planned on taking of substances like these either. I had a VERY difficult 4-AcO-MiPT experience this past weekend.

If I were weighing out what were a low dose for me and it ended up being 6mg more, fine. I can handle that. However, when I'm weighing out a dose that I know from previous experience will result in a difficult trip, I need it to be precise. I at least expect 2mg accuracy. I realize that with +-2mg, that's a 4mg variance already. I don't need this 'drift' adding to the variance.

The Sartorius I'm looking at is really sweet, but a storage case for it is like an additional $345. So I'll pass on the stoarge case, but the thing looks like an analytical balance from my college chemistry classes and is huge. So it's not something I would think you would move around alot and I would probably have to leave it set up in my office. Just looks kind of suspicious having a scale that expensive and not being a jewler. 8)

That's one nice thing about the Tanita is it's small enough to put away when you're done using it. Shit, I'm just dreaming. It will be a hard decision to actually shell out that kind of cash for a scale. I mean, do you know how many whippets I could buy for $899? =D

-gp
 
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Hi Georgia. Thanks for the tip, I'll check out weighing with a capsule or similar and see how it goes around the 100mg mark.

I might get more into using compounds dissolved in solution, if I can find something that can accurately measure very small amounts of solution. That would allow me to spread the 4mg scale drift over several doses. Perhaps 100mg (which could be 96mg or 104mg) in 100ml of solution, thereby making every 1ml of solution somewhere between 0.96mg and 1.04 mg. 20ml of liquid would yield between 19.2mg and 20.8mg, which is a much more acceptable margin of error in these kind of ranges.

I agree that up to 6mg of inaccuracy is fine with compounds you already know and are using way below your upper dose limit, but 6mg on top of an already high-dose trip might not be fun.

Oh, er, wouldn't $899 worth of whippets look equally suspicious in your office? ;)
 
If you already have a tanita, I would suggest simply getting a second one (150$ at ebay), instead of investing 500$+ on a mg scale. Then you could use each one as reference for the other in case either drifts - that plus oahus reference weights AND getting the weight of the cup down as mgs suggested should minimize weight miscalculations...
 
It's not that I feel my Tanita is inaccurate. I think it's completley accurate when the reading stays steady, the problem is that more often than not anymore, the reading drifts. So this 6mg variance is not acceptable. Having a second Tanita as a reference is a good idea, but what if it starts to drift too? Then I've got two of them that drift.

Screw it. I think I've already made up my mind on the Sartorious. They have a 1mg model for $499, but I don't like the way the wind shield is on that model. There's just a small hole on top to access the weighing chamber. The 0.2mg model has nice sliding glass doors on both sides of the weighing chamber for easy access. I'm going to call them today and discuss shipping options since I'm guessing I'll need to be home to sign for delivery on this model. If that's the case, I'll probably wait until next week to order it, so that give me a little more time to think about it and I can take a day off from work to be here for delivery. It looks like it comes with a plastic dust cover, so I won't spend the extra money on the carry case and can just leave it set up and covered when not in use.

BTW, I've got 16x24 count boxes of whippets right now. The supply is running a bit low. They just don't look suspicious since I leave them in the closet. =D
 
Well yesterday I did what I should have doen in the first place and I ordered a 0.2mg scale. It won't arrive until early next week, but I'm excited about it. At lease until the credit card bill comes.

I bought the Sartorious GC-503. I talked to the guy at the store about it quite a bit and he programmed it for me (default gram/milligram mode instead of carats, etc) so once I set it up and callibrate it, it should be ready to go. He said the only time I should need to re-calibrate the scale if if I re-level or move it. I mentioned the drift problem with the Tanita and he hadn't heard a lot of complaints about anything like that with the Tanita. The things he mentioned to watch out for with drift for any electronic scale are:

1) Temp change (even a 2 degree difference can cause a drift until it stabilizes)
2) Humidity change (similar to above)
3) Static electricity (not with the Tanita since it as a plastic weighing pan)
4) RF interference

I'm starting to wonder if my drift was being caused by RF interference from my computer. I'm going to play with it a bit this weekend in the same room so the other factor are stable and just shut my computer down first to make sure there's no interference coming from it. Perhaps that was my problem? Neo, check out the factors above and perhaps that's what is causing your drift too? I know temp and humidity were already mentioned, but I didn't think about the possibility of RF interference. I use mine right next to my computer.

Regardless I'm going to be much more comfortable with the Sartotius since it weighs to 0.2mg. I haven't worked with 5-MeO-AMT, 2cp, etc yet, and was figuring I would weight out a large amount and make a solution to spread out the weighing error across several doses. With the new scale I'll be comfortable weighing out single amounts of these chems too, so I still don't feel it's a waste in that respect. Even if this thing has some drift as well, the margin of error should still be quite safe since it weighs down to 0.2mg no? The guy assured me that if it were properly set up, it should have NO drift. And it's got a three year warranty if it does start to drift, so I think all in all, it will pay for itself over the next few years.

I'll post back some comments and picture once I get it set up and have a chance to play with it a bit. The only thing is, as I mentioned, this model will have to stay set up and is not meant to be moved or put away because of it's size. It comes with a clear plastic dust cover though and I'll probably just throw a towel over it too so it's not as apparant what it is. I'm old enough that I don't live with my parents anymore (actaully way beyond that) and I don't get that many visitors, but I don't need the 'unkowing' folks to be questioning why I have a scale of that precision in my office either. I think I bath towel on top of it will do a nice job of concealing what it is.

Take care

-gp
 
1) Temp change (even a 2 degree difference can cause a drift until it stabilizes)
2) Humidity change (similar to above)
3) Static electricity (not with the Tanita since it as a plastic weighing pan)
4) RF interference
Click to expand...

Air currents too. And if you buy a higher precision scale it will be even more sensitive to these, unless it has specific built in protections from these factors.
 
Hmmm the RF interference might be a factor. I have pretty much always used the 1210 either next to my laptop in one room or ne my computer music gear in the other. I'll check that out, thanks.

Enjoy your new scale Georgia, it sounds like quite something. Talk about drug paraphenalia :)

Glad you keep your whippets in the closet. Stops 'em escaping.
 
I recently aquired some Metlor AC-100 0.1mg scales... Using 2mg scales is a complete waste of time in my view! Trying to weigh out 2c-p or other very low dosage rc's would be imposible on any other scales.. Phones and laptops etc do interefere with the scales tho.. And if anyone is walking in the room.. wow :)

My advice to anyone going into massive amounts of tripping (personal)... invest in some <1mg scales for your own saftey and piece of mind...

Do be warned however, that High precision balances are on the category II of watched chemicals/equipment for the manufacturing of drugs.. These items could spark a visit from the police.. And could lead to some charges if they find something that shouldn't be there.. be warned...

My rule of thumb for messuring out dosages is, if you want to be able to weigh out 20mg, be able to read 1mg. if you want to read 2mg, be able to read .1mg... reduces your margin for error massivley... The Tanita and Carot scales i've found dont react to low messurments very well.. Ok for 20mg doses... but i wouldn't trust them much below that.. Recent comparisons between my Big scales and others have shown deviations of up to 2mg..
 
My Sartorious GC-503 arrived today, and I couldn't be more pleased.

I got it plugged in and leveled where 'm leaving it set up and waited a few hours to make sure the temp had stabilized before I callibrated it.

I tell you what, I have a feeling I'm going to be VERY pleased with this baby. It's a piece of work. Even before I callibrated it, I just turned it on and watched it over a period of like 10-12mins and there was absolutely NO fluctuation in the reading. It just stayed at a steady 0.0000g reading. And this was with my ceiling fan on in the room (of course I had the weighing chamber doors closed).

The 100gm callibration weigh that comes with it even has it's own foam lined case and there's a cloth glove included you can use when handling the weight so you don't throw off it's accuracy by getting grease on it from your hands, etc. Really cool. I'll probably callibrate it again once more before I really use it to weigh anything.

Anway, I wish I would have bought something like this to begin with. I feel so much more comfortable now working with many things. I think the Tanita is a good scale for the money, but I'm interested to see how some samples weighed on the Tanita, weigh out on the new scale. This weekend I may have to weigh out a few samples of salt or something between the two scales to compare. Of course I don't expect the ones form the Tanita to be right on the money, but I would expect them to be in the general ballpark for what the expected measurements are.

I'm starting to agree with badbiki though, where I feel there are some compounds that need more resolution than 2mg to work with safely. And you know, not even compounds that are ok at the lower levels, but when you start to push the dose ranges to where you are at your upper level, I'm not comfotable with the Tanita anymore. But that's just me. I've had a few really tough experiences lately that shouldn't have been that bad.

Anyway, enough of my babble. I've attached a picture for those of you who are interested. Sorry it's not the greatest image quality. On the left side is the foam case containing the callibration weight, but it's hard to see because of how dark the image is.

Take care

-gp
 

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I feel there are some compounds that need more resolution than 2mg to work with safely.
Click to expand...

Certainly. Thats a fact. But one can always supplement the Tanita using a solution.
 
Just a quick update here. I can't remember the model number but I did find a Sartorious 1mg scale in the $499 price range than after using this model, I wouldn't hesitate to buy either. I'm guessing it's also a quality piece of equipment.

Although this model is pricey in the $899 range, if you are going to spend this kind of $$ on a scale, I highly recommend this model.

The cons to having a scale like this is that it is not intended to be mobile at all and basically needs to stay set up and ready for use. Other than that, this baby kicks ass. Once you level and callibrate it, it's ready to go.

The pros to having a scale like this are you can basically just tare out your pan and capsule, weigh something out and trust that it's accurate. When you're weighing something and close the weighing chamber doors, there's no fluctuation in the reading.

I did a bunch of test measurements and played with it this weekend and I'm very comfortable with it to say the least. I should have spent the extra money to begin with. Once I played with it a bit, you can basically, just tare out the pan and your capsule. Then, the weight reading you see is your compound. Really simple and no math to have to deal with. I was never comfortable doing anything like this with my Tanita. Every time I weigh or re-weigh something on this scale it's EXACT and there's no fluctuation in the reading at all.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my Tanita yet and I'll probably keep it in the case I need something portable, but I am VERY pleased with this purchase. Sartorius makes a very good scale.

-gp
 
Hi Georgia,

Just saw the pic..... very nice scale!!

I'm sure it's well worth the money. I'd get one myself but it will have to wait 'till finances are in better shape. I'll muddle along with the Tanita meanwhile.

BTW did you measure anything on the Tanita and then check on the Sartorius to see what the real weight is?

Neo
 
Thanks Neo. I'm really pleased with this model. I wish I had bought it much sooner than I did though.

I haven't tried weighing anything on the Tanita and then the Sartorioius for comparison yet, but perhaps I'll try to do that this weekend to see how close they are. I have weighed the 20gm Tanita callibration weight on the Sartorius, and it shows right on at 20.0000g. The Sartorious is smart enough to know whether you start it up with the jewel pan in place, etc and you don't even need to tare it out. I was planning on callibrating it monthly if I'm using it regularly, but the guy told me I only really need to callibrate it if I have to move or re-level it.

The thing that bothered me about the Tanita was the inconsistancy in measurements. I would be trying to re-weigh a sample for example to verify it's weight and it would come up 4mg different. I'm like WTF? It was really frustrating. I think it was all part of the fluctuation phenomenom though. But having to spend 20mins trying to weigh out a sample and then still being unsure whether it was accurate was not cool. I do think my Tanita was pretty much accurate though if I ignored the annoying drift. I'll have to test it out or at least compare it to the Sartorious to see.

Did you ever get yours stabilized by shutting down other devices and removing RF interference? I never tried shutting all my electronic equipment down prior to using my Tanita, but if I weigh out some salt samples for comparison, I will do so to see if the drift goes away.

I really wish I would have bought mine sooner though, because I think I'm done weighing samples for a little while and am going to take a break. We all know how that goes, but I've got some really screwed up things going on in my life right now and I'm going through another pretty serious opiate WD (again), so I don't need to be playing with anything like this right now. My opiate WD is by choice trying to get cleaned up again, but it's not made life easy. Plus I'm trying to WD from sedatives too at the same time, so my head's pretty screwed up right now as it is. I'm old enough and should know better, but I've been here many times. I've got a few samples I will probably get rid of and then I may be out of the picture for a while. Of course I say that now.... 8)

Take care and let me know if your Tanita's drift has stabilized when RF interference is reduced. I'm still trying to decide wether or not to keep mine to have something more portable.

-gp
 
So has anybody tried to prove RF interference as a major factor with the Tanita? I'm just now looking at purchasing a scale, but I do not foresee my current finances allowing for spending more than $400. I've thought heavily about grabbing a Mettler from ebay, but I am understandably concerned about them being fully functional and properly calibrated after prior use and shipping.

I will likely not be working with any of the finer RCs, though, so a 2mg variation should be acceptable (at this time).

Good luck w/ the WD and stabilization, georgia.
 
hyoomen,

I'm sorry, but I haven't had a chance to test the RF Interference theory with the Tanita myself. I haven't been weighing many if any samples lately. If I get the opportunity to this weekend, I will shut down all other electric applicances in my office and test my Tanita.

This may be pushing the limit here, but you said you had a $400 budget for a scale. Of course, you don't want to spend any more than you have to (who does), but the same place I got my Sartorious had a 1mg Sartorious model for only $499. That seemed like a real bargain and a really nice scale as well. I can't remember the model number, etc off-hand, but would be more than glad to research and get back to you if your interested and it's a possibility. You may already be looking at the same place online and be aware of the model I'm speaking of. PM me if your interested and I'll see if I can dig up the info and if it's still on special.

I'm VERY pleased with the 0.2mg model I got and I'm sure the 1mg model they offer is a very nice scale as well.

Thanks for the pleasant WD wishes. However, the opie WD never materialized. I haven't gotten drunk in over a week though, so at least I'm clean of booze if nothing else. Opies are a different problem for me. ;)

Take care

-gp
 
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