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The Big and Dandy NBOMe-2C-C (25C-NBOMe) Thread

Finally tried this stuff the other day.

I dissolved 8mg into 5mL distilled water, and added 0.5mL vodka just in case it helped to kill any bacteria. I put this into a metered nasal spray pump (0.1ml per puff). So this is "about" 150ug/puff.

Did one puff up each nostril. Within 5 mins I was tripping and peaking around 10-15 mins. Got up to a medium +++.

Although it was very colorful and had interesting unique visuals, I still had a 2c like body load.. although nowhere near as bad as 2c-b. It was interesting, but fell short of my expectations from all the rave reviews.. maybe I need to try 3 puff's next time?

Oh, one thing to note is the body load seemed to almost go away after an hour or two, just leaving the trip.. lasted 6-8 hours although I wasn't watching the clock really. At one point snorted a bump of 4-aco-dmt to "smooth" it out and make it fluid.
 
Yea i messed that solution up (1mg/ml) way to much liquid, but i think i was able to get 200-300ug in the back of my nose with my head upside down for a few min. Id say i was at about a +2. slightly triply headspace, very benign on the body. I think i might have to go through the bum next time if i wanna accurately dose. Or is there anything i can add to the solution so it can be easily absorbed via insufflation?
 
IMHO, NBOMe-2c-c is the perfect candidate for complexation with hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin (special made sugar ring powder molecules) to significantly increase absorption of sublingual or nasal solutions. HBCD complexed drugs can work miracles in terms of absorption, it might be very well possible to turn this poorly absorbed and variably absorbed drug into one of much improved solubility, so much so that the same dose would have the same effect each and every time.

NBOMe-2C-C can be mixed with a (bacteriostatic water if you want it sterile) water solution of hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin powder at a ratio of 10 times the amount of cyclodextrin powder to NBOMe-2c-c to make a water solution of NBOMe-2c-c that should be about 50 to 75% or more absorbed via the sublingual route as opposed to less than 25% ?? quite variable absorption sublingually normally.

Hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin is a seven sugar ring molecule that "encapsulates" hydrophobic molecules making them easily soluble sublingually.

This is the way that plain testosterone (non-water soluble) base is mixed with hbcd to make it absorbable sublingually under the tongue or between gum and cheek. Normally testosterone base is only weakly absorbed sublingually (way less than 25 percent absorbed), but when mixed (stirred) for 1 hour at a ratio of x 10 hbcd powder to testosterone in water, when the stirring is done, the solution can then be stored away and will then be about 75 to 80% completely absorbed sublingually in record time.

Bought a 5 lb jug of hydroxyproply beta-cyclodextrin several years ago from a sports supplement supplier for xx, it is a very super fine powder. Hope to experiment with this process in the future. Need to get a .001g scale first. It does indeed work with testosterone base, cause experimented with this in the past, and it worked very well. Simply mixed 10mg of testosterone base with 100mg of hbcd for 1 hour in a container using a magnetic stirrer and stir bar, by the end of 1 hour all of that testosterone base would have been "complexed" with the hbcd, it was then indeed very active sublingually whereas normally it is only very very weakly active sublingually. The "complexed" testosterone was absorbed sublingually and caused strong "peak" mental effects to be noted in record time, whereas normally, the testosterone base caused no sort of perceptable mental change when non-complexed, as that way (non-complexed) it was only very very weakly absorbed.

When you mix testosterone base with water it does NOT dissolve at all no matter how long you stir it (it would simply float on top the water), but as soon as the hbcd powder was added to the water and began stirring, ALL of the testosterone powder dissolved completely into the water in a matter of minutes when mixed at high speed. Allow 1 hour for 100% complexation to fully complete. Read the manufacturer's data sheet on the web and all this can be learned, it states that 1 hour should be allowed for complete complexation, and sure enough it did work.

Several years ago (before the otc ban of pro-hormones) Noted Chemist Patrick Arnold created best selling sublingual pro-hormone products that incorporated hBCD powder with non-water soluble pro-hormones to make them highly effective sublingually. I had also bought some of his sublingual pro-hormone complexed products, they worked very well. Mental effects could be noted in record time via the sublingual route, highly effective. Patrick Arnold's company was called Ergopharm (you may be still able to find his cyclodextrin products by searching old web pages before the ban), more on Patrick: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Arnold
He used to post cyclodextrin recipes on "usenet" (dejanews bodybuilding groups) now owned by I think Google.

As far as NBOMe-2C-C is concerned, for those who wish to not go "from 0 to 60" in a matter of minutes via use of a nasal spray or water snorting, but would rather have a much improved sublingual route of administration, this method should show great promise. Simply drop the "complexed" water solution of HBCD and NBOMe-2c-c onto the blotter, Then put it in-between upper gum and cheek. Not only would you received much improved absorption, but it would happen much quicker as well. I would say this holds way more promise over polysorbate 80 and lecithin as means to increase sublingual absorption. Febreeze uses HBCD powder to encapsulate it's fragance in solution, that's why it works so darn well. Hope to post results using this method in the future, just need highly accurate scale first, already have the 1ml syringe, etc.

A sonic vibration device would likely work very well for mixing tiny solutions of HBCD and NBOMe-2c-c in water, or just tie-strap that perfume glass sample sized solution of hbcd and nbome-2c-c to an electric toothbrush for an hour, lol. I should mention that a complexed solution is quite "sticky" just like you would imagine a sugar and water solution to be. The reason the research states to use x 10 times the amount of hbcd powder, is because these 7-ring sugar molecules "surround" the hydrophobic molecules mixed in with it, causing them to be "incapsulated" allowing for high absorption percentage sublingually. I'm not going to go into the details here but check out the websites dedicated to HBCD to learn more.

I should mention that the solution should also improve nasal absorption, there were plenty of nasal cyclodextrin products made as well back then (all by Ergopharm only since they were Patented). There is quite a lot of variability among the same dose it seems with this RC, hopes with this idea exchange post is that perhaps we might be able to come closer to standardizing the effects (as well as increasing speed and percentage absorption) from the same dose over and over each and every time using hbcd, you never know...

There are less than a handful of some interesting experience reports in the Erowid NBome vault. Have not been interested in any of the RC's over the years until this family.

Testosterone solubility in water is extremely poor at 0.039mg/mL, however, when complexed with hbcd, it then becomes soluble.

Wikipedia entry for hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclodextrin

A primer on how HBCD works: (Cyclodextrins in Drug Delivery Systems: An update)
http://www.pharmainfo.net/reviews/cyclodextrins-drug-delivery-systems-update

Here is a an old link for an example now defunct (no longer produced due to ban) Patented Ergopharm cyclodextrin sublingual product:

hxxp://www.netrition.com/ergopharm_cyclo_diol_powder_page.html

Your rating: None Average: 3 (3 votes)
S. Baboota, R. Khanna, S. P. Agarwal, J. Ali and A. Ahuja
Department of Pharmaceutics, Faculty of Pharmacy,
Jamia Hamdard, (Hamdard University), New Delhi-110062, India.

1. Introduction

A drug delivery system is expected to deliver the required amount of drug to the targeted site for the necessary period of time, both efficiently and precisely. Different carrier materials are being constantly developed to overcome the undesirable properties of drug molecules (Szycher and Kim, 1991). Amongst them cyclodextrins (CDs) have been found as potential candidates because of their ability to alter physical, chemical and biological properties of guest molecules through the formation of inclusion complexes. CDs were discovered approximately 100 years ago and the first patent on CDs and their complexes was registered in 1953 (Loftsson and Brewster, 1996). However, their large scale commercial utilization was prevented mainly due to their high cost and concerns regarding their safety. Recent advancements have resulted in dramatic improvements in CD production, which have lowered their production costs. This has led to the availability of highly purified CDs and CD derivatives which are well suited as pharmaceutical excipients. A lot of work has also been done regarding the safety-assessment CDs and CD derivatives which has allayed the fears which were initially raised regarding their safety. Because of their structure and physico-chemical properties, CDs as drug carriers provide a number of advantages like:

1. They provide a number of potential sites for chemical modification.

2. CDs with different cavity sizes are available which makes it possible to entrap drugs of different molecular dimensions.

3. The microenvironment in their cavity is relatively non-polar and lipophilic.

4. They possess low toxicity and low pharmacological activity.

5. They have a good aqueous solubility.

6. They are rather resistant to hydrolysis by organic acids and many common alpha amylases, and completely resistant to yeast fermentation and beta amylases.

7. They are not decomposed by hot alkali.

8. They exhibit a high thermal stability, with a decomposition temperature approaching 300°C.

9. They protect the included /conjugated drugs from biodegradation.

10. They can be used as process aids to remove specific components from a mixture or minerals.

2. Cyclodextrins and Complexation Phenomenon

CDs are cyclic (a-1,4)-linked oligosaccharides of a-D-glucopyranose containing a relatively hydrophobic central cavity and hydrophilic outer surface. Owing to the lack of free rotation around the bonds connecting the glucopyranose units, the CDs are not perfectly cylindrical molecules but are toroidal or cone shaped (Loftsson and Brewster, 1996). As a result of their molecular structure and shape, they possess a unique ability to act as molecular containers by entrapping guest molecules in their internal cavity. No covalent bonds are formed or broken during drug-CD complex formation, and in aqueous solution, the complexes readily dissociate and free drug molecules remain in equilibrium with the molecules bound within the CD cavity.

The parent or natural CDs consist of 6, 7 or 8 glucopyranose units and are referred to as alpha (a-), beta (b-) and gamma (g-) CD, respectively. CDs containing nine, ten, eleven, twelve and thirteen glucopyranose units, which are designated as d-, Î-, x-, h- and q- CD, respectively, have also been reported. Hundreds of modified CDs have been prepared and shown to have research applications, but only a few of these derivatives, those containing the hydroxypropyl (HP), methyl (M), and sulfobutylether (SBE) substituents have been commercially used as new pharmaceutical excipients.
3. Advantages of Cyclodextrin Inclusion Complexation

CDs have mainly been used as complexing agents to increase the aqueous solubility of poorly water-soluble drugs and to increase their bioavailability and stability. In addition, CDs have been used to reduce or prevent gastrointestinal or ocular irritation, reduce or eliminate unpleasant smells or tastes, prevent drug-drug or drug-additive interactions, or even to convert oils and liquid drugs into microcrystalline or amorphous powders.

1. Enhancement of Solubility: CDs increase the aqueous solubility of many poorly soluble drugs by forming inclusion complexes with their apolar molecules or functional groups. The resulting complex hides most of the hydrophobic functionality in the interior cavity of the CD while the hydrophilic hydroxyl groups on the external surface remain exposed to the environment. The net effect is that a water soluble CD-drug complex is formed.

2. Enhancement of Bioavailability: When poor bioavailability is due to low solubility, CDs are of extreme value. Preconditions for the absorption of an orally administered drug is its release from the formulation in dissolved form. When drug is complexed with CD, dissolution rate and consequently absorption is enhanced. Reducing the hydrophobicity of drugs by CD complexation also improves their percutaneous or rectal absorption. In addition to improving solubility, CDs also prevent crystallization of active ingredients by complexing individual drug molecules so that they can no longer self-assemble into a crystal lattice.

3. Improvement of Stability: CD complexation is of immense application in improving the chemical, physical and thermal stability of drugs. For an active molecule to degrade upon exposure to oxygen, water, radiation or heat, chemical reactions must take place. When a molecule is entrapped within the CD cavity, it is difficult for the reactants to diffuse into the cavity and react with the protected guest. In the case of thermal or radiation induced degradation, the active must undergo molecular rearrangements. Again, due to the stearic constraints on the guest molecule within the cavity, it is difficult for the entrapped molecule to fragment upon exposure to heat or light or if it does fragment, the fragments do not have the mobility needed to separate and react before a simple recombination takes place. Volatile components can be stabilized against loss by reducing the volatility in case of liquids and by reducing the tendency of some solid products to sublimate. The deliquescence of hygroscopic substances is also reduced by complexation with CDs. Physical changes like sedimentation and caking in suspension or recrystallization of drugs to less soluble but thermodynamically more stable polymorphic crystal forms, etc., can also be prevented or reduced by complexation with CDs.

4. Reduction of Irritation: Drug substances that irritate the stomach, skin or eye can be encapsulated within a CD cavity to reduce their irritancy. Inclusion complexation with CDs reduces the local concentration of the free drug below the irritancy threshold. As the complex gradually dissociates and the free drug is released, it gets absorbed into the body and its local free concentration always remains below levels that might be irritating to the mucosa.

5. Prevention of Incompatibility: Drugs are often incompatible with each other or with other inactive ingredients present in a formulation. Encapsulating one of the incompatible ingredients within a CD molecule stabilizes the formulation by physically separating the components in order to prevent drug-drug or drug-additive interaction.

6. Odor and Taste Masking: Unpleasant Odor and bitter taste of drugs can be masked by complexation with CDs. Molecules or functional groups that cause unpleasant tastes or odors can be hidden from the sensory receptors by encapsulating them within the CD cavity. The resulting complexes have no or little taste or odor and are much more acceptable to the patient.

7. Material Handling Benefits: Substances that are oils/liquids at room temperature can be difficult to handle and formulate into stable solid dosage forms. Complexation with CDs may convert such substances into microcrystalline or amorphous powders which can be conveniently handled and formulated into solid dosage forms by conventional production processes and equipment.

4.0 Applications of Cyclodextrins in Drug Delivery Systems

The multifunctional characteristics of CDs have enabled them to be used in almost every drug delivery system be it oral drug delivery or transdermal drug delivery or ocular drug delivery. The commercial viability of CD-based oral formulations has been established with the marketing of more than 20 products world-wide.

A number of excellent reviews have appeared in the literature in the last few years describing the applications of CDs in various drug delivery systems (Table 1). We present below an update on the recent work done in the different fields.

4.1 Oral Drug Delivery System:

Since time immemorial, out of all the sites available for delivering drugs, oral route has been the most popular route for designing a drug delivery system. In the oral delivery system, the release of the drug is either dissolution controlled, diffusion controlled, osmotically controlled, density controlled or pH-controlled.

CDs have been used as an excipient to transport the drugs through an aqueous medium to the lipophillic absorption surface in the gastro-intestinal tract, i.e., complexation with CDs has been used to enhance the dissolution rate of poorly water-soluble drugs. Hydrophilic CDs have been particularly useful in this regard. Table 2 lists the various drugs that have been evaluated for their ability to form complexes with CDs and the improvement afforded by such complexation.

Rapid dissolving complexes with CDs have also been formulated for buccal and sublingual administration. In this type of drug delivery system, a rapid increase in the systemic drug concentration takes place along with the avoidance of systemic and hepatic first pass metabolism (Jain et al, 2002).

4.2. Rectal Dug Delivery System:

Recent studies have shown that rectal mucosa can be used as a potential site for delivering drugs, which have a bitter and nauseous taste, have a high first-pass metabolism and degrade in the gastro-intestinal pH. It is an ideal route to deliver drugs to the unconscious patients, children and infants. However, rectal mucosa offers a very limited area for drug absorption resulting in an erratic release of drugs. To overcome these problems, a number of excipients have been used and amongst them, CDs have been found to be quite useful.

CDs, to be used as excipient in rectal drug delivery system should have the following characteristics:

1. They should be non-irritating to the rectal mucosa.

2. They should inhibit the reverse diffusion of drugs into the vehicle.

3. They should have a low affinity for the suppository base.

Complexation of hydrophobic drugs with CDs have resulted in a significant increase in the rectal absorption of these drug (Table 3). The reason for the enhanced release has been attributed to the formation of a hydrophilic complex, which has a low affinity for the base and rapidly dissolves in the rectal fluids. It has been reported that the complexation enhances the dissolution of lipophilic drugs at an interface between the molten base and the surrounding fluid and inhibits the reverse diffusion of the drug into the vehicle. Recently the absorption of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) was found to increase by about four times in male rabbits when co-administered with a-CD (Kowari et al., 2002)

CDs have also been studied as rectal permeation enhancers. They have been found to increase the permeation of drugs through rectal epithelium cells. It has been reported that complexation of morphine HCl with a and b-CD resulted in an increase in the bioavailability of morphine when it was formulated as a suppository. The complexation increased only the bioavailability and did not alter the release rate of morphine from the vehicle. (Kondo et al, 1996; Uekama et al, 1995) CDs have also been used to prevent the local irritation of drugs on the rectal mucosa.

4.3. Nasal Drug Delivery System:

The use of nasal mucosa for transporting drugs is a novel approach for the systemic delivery of high potency drugs with a low oral bioavailability due to extensive gastro-intestinal breakdown and high hepatic first-pass effect. CDs have the ability to enhance drug delivery through biological barriers without affecting their barrier function, a property which makes CDs ideal penetration enhancers for intranasal drug delivery. CDs can also act as solubilizers for lipophilic water-insoluble drugs, making it possible to formulate such drugs in aqueous nasal spray formulations. Furthermore, CD complexation can stabilize drugs which are chemically unstable in aqueous solutions, and decrease drug irritation after nasal application.

CDs, when used as excipients in nasal drug delivery system should have the following characteristics:

1. They should not have any local or systemic effect.

2. They should not interfere with the nasal muco-ciliary functions.

3. They should not show ciliostatic effect.

4. They should be non-irritating and non-allergenic.

5. They should enhance the permeation of drugs across nasal epithelium in a reversible manner.

The absorption enhancement afforded by CDs can be attributed primarily to their ability to reduce the physical or metabolic barriers to drugs. Another potential barrier to the nasal absorption of drugs is the limitation in the size of hydrophilic pores through which they are thought to pass. The hydrophilic CDs solubilize some specific lipids from biological membrane through the rapid and reversible formation of inclusion complexes, leading to an increase in the membrane permeability. Of all the CDs available, HP-b-CD and methylated b-CDs have been used mainly as solubilizers and absorption enhancers in nasal drug delivery system.

The concept of pulsed estrogen therapy has recently been exploited by the introduction of a nasal spray delivery system containing CD (Al-Azzawi, 2002). The administration of estradiol via the nasal mucosa was made possible by the use of randomly methylated alpha-CD, which increased the solubility of estradiol. The new formulation provided reliable dose-dependent exposure to estradiol, avoiding the hepatic first-pass effect and demonstrated good biological and clinical efficacy. Bioavailability and clinical evaluation of a CD based intranasal formulation of midazolam also showed results comparable to an intravenous formulation with respect to the speed of absorption, serum concentration and clinical sedation effect (Gudmundsdottir, et al., 2001; Loftsson et al., 2001) Table 4 lists the various drugs evaluated for their complexation ability with CDs and incorporated into nasal drug delivery systems.

The safety of CDs as nasal absorption enhancers has also been studied extensively. It has been found that toxicity can occur at two stages. First, when the CD is in direct contact with the nasal mucosa, i.e., local toxicity and secondly, when the CD complex has been absorbed through the nasal epithelium, i.e., systemic toxicity. From the literature review, it has been found that local toxicity of CDs on nasal mucosa is not significant. However, the risk of systemic side effects of CDs after nasal administration depends on how much CD has been absorbed and it has been found that after nasal administration of a drug CD formulation, only the drug is absorbed by the nasal epithelium but not the highly water soluble CD. The CD portion not absorbed is removed by the nasal muco-ciliary clearance system, which transports the unabsorbed CD towards the oesophagus, from where it is swallowed. (Marttin et al., 1997b; Marttin et al., 1998). Asai et al (2002) have recently shown that 30 or 60 min exposure to 10% w/v HP-b-CD or randomly methylated b-CD resulted in no obvious mucosal damage to the nasal mucosa of rats.

4.4. Transdermal Drug Delivery System :

Transdermal drug delivery system is a sophisticated and more reliable means of administering the drug through skin, for local and systemic action. It offers the advantages of minimization of side effects due to the optimization of the concentration profile of drug in blood with time, avoidance of first-pass metabolism, easy termination of therapy by mere removal of patch, predictable and extended duration of action and greater patient compliance due to reduction in the frequency of dosing. However, the most important limitation of this drug delivery system is the limited permeation of drugs through human skin. The human skin is composed of unvascularized epidermis and highly vascularized dermis below it. The external layer of epidermis called stratum corneum is less permeable as compared to the other layers beneath it. Before a topically applied drug can act either locally or systemically, it must penetrate the stratum corneum, the permeation barrier. A number of studies have been carried out to find safe and suitable permeation enhancers to promote subcutaneous absorption of drugs.

Use of CDs as permeation enhancers has gained tremendous popularity over the past few years. The rate of permeation of the drug through the skin is affected by partition coefficient of the drug between the skin and vehicle and the thermodynamic activity of drugs in vehicle.

CDs to be used as excipients in transdermal drug delivery system should possess the following characteristics:

1. They should be therapeutically inert.

2. They should not interfere with the normal functions of the skin such as protection from heat, humidity, radiation and other potential insults.

3. They should not alter the pH of the skin.

4. They should not interact with any component of the skin.

5. They should not cause skin irritation.

In transdermal drug delivery system, hydrophilic, hydrophobic as well as ionizable CDs have been used as carriers for drugs. Hydrophilic CDs like 2,6 dimethyl-b-CD and hydroxypropyl-b-CD have been used to improve the solubility and dissolution characteristics of insoluble drugs. Hydrophobic CDs such as 2,6 diethyl-b-CD have been used to retard the dissolution rate of water soluble drugs and ionizable CDs like carboxymethyl-b-CD, sulfated and sulfobutylether-b-CD have been used to improve inclusion capacity and reduce side effects associated with drugs.

Table 5 lists the drugs which have been complexed with CD successfully in dermal preparation to minimize systemic side effects, improve patient compliance for long term therapy, increase solubility and retard release of drug substances.

4.5. Ocular Drug Delivery System :

In an ocular drug delivery system the most preferred dosage form is the eye drop due to easy instillation in the eye. But the major disadvantage of this dosage form is its inability to sustain high local concentration of drug. The other dosage form for ocular treatment includes oily drops, gels, ointments, suspensions and inserts but these formulations suffer from the drawback of causing irritation and blurred vision. There is therefore a need of an agent, which can overcome these problems while formulating an ocular dosage form. In ocular drug delivery CDs have been used to increase the solubility and/ or stability of drugs and to prevent side effects of drugs such as irritation and discomfort.

CDs have been used to solubilize poorly water soluble drugs and enhance ocular bioavailaibility of lipophillic drugs by keeping the drugs in solution and increasing their availaibility at the surface of the corneal barrier. Hydrophillic CDs such as HP-b-CD and sulphobutyl-b-?CD have been used for the purpose mainly due to their non-toxicity and hydrophilicity. CDs to be used as an excipient in ocular drug delivery system should possess the following characteristics:

1. They should be non-irritating to the ocular surface, as irritation can cause
reflex tearing and blinking resulting in fast washout of instilled drug.

2. They should be non-toxic and well tolerated.

3. They should be inert in nature.

4. They should enhance the permeability of the drug through the corneal mucosa.

Numerous studies have shown that CDs are useful additives in ophthalmic formulations for increasing the aqueous solubility, stability and bioavailability of ophthalmic drugs, and to decrease drug irritation. Table 6 lists the drugs which have been evaluated for their complexation ability and incorporation into ophthalmic drug delivery system.

Shown below: β -cyclodextrin: seven sugar ring molecule
 

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Haha I love the idea using an electric toothbrush as a vortexer! :D

Good to know this compounds seems to be a superior surfactant / emusifier / complex agent.

But don't use SWIM on this site please. It doesn't help, that is an illusion.
 
Just received a sample of this to try some time soon. What is a good dose for a first timer?

Plenty of psych experience. Is there cross tolerance with other 2c's or acid? As I took 2c-p and 2c-t-4 on the weekend and will probably be having some acid this weekend at a doof.
 
Just received a sample of this to try some time soon. What is a good dose for a first timer?

If you are going to use it via buccal ROA and you say that you got plenty experience then take 750-1000ug.
 
Further experimentation leads me to believe that using 0.1%-1% Tween 20 or some other excipent is a must if you are concerned with cost. This produces consistently good results (+2/+3) with both 25c and 25d at dosages varying from 100 to 800ug via sublingual/buccal (4 people, 8 trials), effects comparable to LSD. I think >1mg would be overwhelming.

The formulation I use is 1 or 2mg/ml of the HCl in water + a small% of polysorbate. This way less than a ml of liquid can be swirled around the cheeks, tongue and gums and ensure good absorbtion.
 
I think that answer/quesstion was directed towards me " Tregar" I just want something to mix into my desired dose, which would approximately be 500ml, so that it will all get absorbed as opposed to running all the way back down the throat. Not sure, just woke up work with me here.
 
There is nothing you can mix into 500ml to get it all absorbed, unless you want to boil some of the liquid off or put 2 cups of water up your ass. You may well pour that down the drain.

A general rule is that it's always easy to add more solvent, hard to take it off.
 
Based on the last paragraph (3.3.4) on NBOMe-2c-I in the paper by Nichols, (could not attach paper as it exceeds forum rules) we know the Ki values of NBOMe-2c-I (INBMeo) as compared with LSD.

The paper is called "High specific activity tritium-labeled N-(2-methoxybenzyl)-2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodophenethylamine (INBMeO): A high-affinity 5-HT2A receptor-selective agonist radioigand" By David E. Nichols from www.sciencedirect.com

Attached is the Ki graph of LSD and here are the Ki values for NBOMe-2c-I so comparisons can be made:

The Lower the Ki value, the more strongly the drug bonds to receptors.

NBOMe-2c-I:

The ligand had low affinity for most receptors, with the following reported Ki values (nM) for receptors where it had significant affinity:

5-HT2a (1)
5-HT2c (2)
5HT6 (73, +/-12)
u opiate (82, +/-14)
H1 (189, +/-35)
5-HT2B (231, +/-73)
kappa opiate (288 +/-50)

all other ki values were greater than 500 nM:

5-HT1A
dopamine D3
Histamine H2
5-HT1D
X1A adrenergic
S opiate
serotonin uptake transporter
5-HT5A
5-HT1B
dopamine D2
5-HT7
dopamine D1
5-HT3
5-HT1E
dopamine D5
muscarinic m1-m5
histamine H3
and the dopamine uptake transporter.

It may be it's lack of significant activity at the dopamine receptors that perhaps accounts for it's lack of significant activity regarding appetite as compared to LSD (see graph). But this is only an assumption.

The reason for comments on forums pertaining to NBOMe-2c-I being the "most like LSD" as compared with other NBOMe's is most likely due to it's super high affinity to the 5-HT2A receptor (just like LSD). It was the one that had the highest affinity for 5-HT2A as compared with other NBOMe's according to Nichols.

Now for LSD affinities (based on the graph on "LSD" entry from wikipedia):
 

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Well im not dumping it down the toilet, but looks like i need a copious amount of liquid up the ass for any effectiveness.
- I've heard the come up time vary from different ROA's obviously, but the consensus seems +5-30 min for the come up. I went intranasal and it came on surprisingly quick about 10 min and i was there. Peaked at about 45-1 hour for me anyways.
 
Sorry higherconsiousness, didn't mean to step into your question earlier. Thanks for the report. Any more details on how your experience went? did it increase music appreciation or make you have some deep belly laughs watching funny things like when on acid for example? I know a couple that took it and broke out into deep belly laughs watching daytime court shows and Tootsie on two seperate occasions, they really loved it and one of them had fantastic CEVs as well.

p.s forgot to mention that beta-cyclodextrin can still be found on auction sites, but other than that, I've only seen it offered by the big chemical companies like sigma aldrich, etc. etc nowdays, unfortunate but true. I got it from a sports supplement company that went out of business due to the pro-hormone ban. If it can make totally insoluble hydrophobic testosterone into 100% water soluble solution in less than 1 hour, then it can do the same for the hydrophobic nbome molecules, increasing sublingual or nasal absorption many fold, not to mention drastically increasing time of absorption. This is the stuff the big boys (ergopharm for example) use to make highly efficient patented sublingually delivered medicine. The 2c-i nbome version is said to be especially hydrophobic. The beta-cyclodextrin excels with hydrophobic molecules.

Remember that a smaller number means that a compound is more potent at the particular receptor:

LSD:

5-HT1A = 1.1
5-HT1B = 90
5-HT1D = 11
5-HT1E = 93

5-HT2A = 3.5
5-HT2B = 25
5-HT2C = 23

5-HT5A = 7
5-HT5B = 5
5-HT6 = 6
5-HT7 = 6

d1 = 27
d2 = 6.4
d3 = 261
d4 = 230
d5 =

adrenergic = 37
histamine H1 = 1083

The significance of 5-HT5A, 5-HT6, and 5-HT7 receptors are unknown, but
psychedelic tryptamines such as psilocin or DMT do have significant affinity for 5-HT1A receptors.
---------------------
NBOMe-2c-I:

5-HT2A = 0.044 (exceptionally high)
5-HT2B = 231
5-HT2C = 2

5-HT6 = 73

u-opiate = 82
kappa opiate = 288

histamine H1 = 189
----------------------
LSD Lysergamides (interaction with 5-HT2A, 5-HT1A are explored only for comparisons, rat data):

Lysergic acid diethylamine (LSD):

5-HT2A = 4.8
5-HT1A = 4.4

Lysergic acid isopropylamine:

5-HT2A = 26
5-HT1A = 5.2

Lysergic acid methyl isopropylamine (rat data suggest it "might have" about 1/2 the acitivity of LSD itself, ie human
activity would be 1/3rd that of LSD):

5-HT2A = 28
5-HT1A = 4.6

Lysergic acid ethyl isopropylamine:

5-HT2A = 17
5-HT1A = 3.7

Lysergic acid diisopropylamine:

5-HT2A = 17
5-HT1A = 18

Lysegic acid 2-aminobutane (same molecular weight as LSD itself):

5-HT2A = 8.8
5-HT1A = 2.0

Lysergic acid 3-aminopentane:

5-HT2A = 8.0
5-HT1A = 2.1
 
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SurvivedAbortion said:
Thanks. I got one of them 10ml Olbas Oil vials. So I've prepared my solution, 2.5mg/ml. What's the general come-up time on this?

You'll feel effects within 30 minutes and start tripping by an hour. Plateau usually by the second and its length is dose-dependent.

I think this one's my new favorite

I guess you're good to go then. ^,~
 
Would chopped up blotters in water be the best way to administer rectally?

Also, classical psychs do not work very well on me because I am on Mirtazapine however most 2c's seem to be unaffected. Which group is this compound more likely to fall into?
 
That's probably how I'd do it if I had blotters. You might want to add a drop of distilled vinegar to be sure the compound is in the water soluble salt form though (it probably is already, do they taste bitter? It wouldn't hurt to do this anyway though, just to be sure.)

It's most like the 2C's pharmacologically, I guess mirtazepine would have even less effect on this than the 2C's because of it's very high affinity.
 
The 25x-NBOMe series has very high affinity for the 5-HT2a/5-HT2c receptors and should displace all but the most potent antipsychotics...

The closest relative I would say, in terms of binding affinity, is LSD.
 
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