The Big and Dandy NBOMe-2C-C (25C-NBOMe) Thread

[psood0nym]

^Off topic, but I did learn something really interesting in lecture today. My professor said that only 8 percent of the variance in cases of lung cancer can be explained by smoking tobacco! I figured it would be 50 percent or higher. The rest is BMI, exercise, other toxic environmental contaminants, and innumerable other factors we don't know about or suspect influencing different individuals in different ways that we'll never figure out. Tobacco smoking is the STRONGEST indicator we have, and of course it's associated with plenty of other health problems, so the additive effect is that smoking is going to fuck you over somehow, but lung cancer is the one we all have in mind when we think about the risks of smoking, and it's not even that strong and indicator.

Also of interest. Of the 1.1 percent of all people who have said they used heroin at least once, only 18 percent of that 1.1 percent had used it in the past year, and only 9 percent of the 1.1 percent used it in the past month! That doesn't even account for the presumably minuscule amount who are desperately addicted and use every day. The addiction risk is seemingly totally blown out of proportion.
Granted that doesn't account for other opiate use, but still, fucking heroin! Makes you wonder the real reason people get addicted to drugs if the drugs themselves aren't nearly as addictive as folklore would have us believe.

Here's the page from Gladwell's "The Tipping Point" where the actual stat is explicated (second full paragraph): http://books.google.com/books?id=yB...&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[pharmakos]

Also of interest. Of the 1.1 percent of all people who have said they used heroin at least once, only 18 percent of that 1.1 percent had used it in the past year, and only 9 percent of the 1.1 percent used it in the past month! That doesn't even account for the presumably minuscule amount who are desperately addicted and use every day. The addiction risk is seemingly totally blown out of proportion.

keep in mind, however, that many heroin users feel shame for their addictions and likely might not admit to using.

and wow this thread is derailed.

question: how are you guys measuring doses for this stuff? measuring mass with a .001g or better scale and then using volumetric measurement after that?

 

[any major dude]

keep in mind, however, that many heroin users feel shame for their addictions and likely might not admit to using.

and wow this thread is derailed.

question: how are you guys measuring doses for this stuff? measuring mass with a .001g or better scale and then using volumetric measurement after that?

most people that i know who have used heroin may have done it frequently for a short while, but now do it infrequently if at all. Most people who i know who've really fucked up their lives with opiate type drugs were using things like hydromorphone, suboxone, oxycodone, etc.

and back on topic, yeah, that's how i've been measuring. Gonna try the insufflated route next time, probably with around 400µg. 450µg sublingually was pretty mild for me. Definitely an enjoyable headspace, very chatty, mild visual activity, mostly everything looked quite surreal, but fairly little movement or morphing.. wanna check out that aspect of the effects soon. How've you guys been insufflating? Drying out solution or insufflating the liquid? I wanna get a nasal mist sprayer thing, but haven't found a proper one locally, may ebay it later tonight. I'm curious about vaping it as well, but am hesitant to try that route.

 

[pharmakos]

I wanna get a nasal mist sprayer thing, but haven't found a proper one locally, may ebay it later tonight. I'm curious about vaping it as well, but am hesitant to try that route.

you may have already considered it, but i believe that there are quite a few brands of OTC allergy medication that come in a nasal spray bottle. perhaps you could rig up one of those?

 

[any major dude]

you may have already considered it, but i believe that there are quite a few brands of OTC allergy medication that come in a nasal spray bottle. perhaps you could rig up one of those?

yeah, i tried to dismantle a flonase nasal mister but that didn't work out so well May try another brand, but i'm betting i can find an empty one at some herbal medicine hippie type store, or a pharmacy, but i haven't seen any at any of the pharmacies right around my house. Or i may just insufflate some liquid, i doubt it would be all that difficult, but I don't want to waste any of this rarity, though i'm sure that's pretty much unavoidable .

 

[psood0nym]

I think those heroin numbers have remained pretty consistent across time and changes in culture. Certainly the survey is anonymous and that's how we learned so much about sex back in Kinsey's day when discussing it was "shameful" or dangerous to homosexuals. People are pretty honest about these things. Anyways, I was just on a fun drug related stat tangent.

I've heard the 25T4, 25N, and 25E NBOMes will be more widely available soonish.

It'd be nice if someone with a decent understanding of the chemical and pharmacological nomenclature could give brief synopses of whatever's been written up on these and put it in one post (maybe even have a mod put it to the front of this thread since it's the biggest NBOMe thread and it may be awhile before these three have much on them). If this has been done already please link me to the location.

I'm also curious about what exactly accounts for their qualitative differences. Aren't most of them pretty selective 5HT2a agonists? 25C is my first taste of a psychedelic with such a proportionally high affinity for 5HT2a and I'm interested in any experiential differences between it and other NBOMes with similar affinity profiles (if there are any big differences other than onset time/duration, that is). I know 25D is said to be different but I'm not sure why it should be without knowing more...

 

[nuke]

Google Ralf Heim dissertation and brush up on your German

Aside from that, Nichols published a paper or two about them a while ago. Here's something somewhat interesting: the iodide derivative is only 60-70% as effective as the bromide derivative in terms of agonist effect at 5HT2A receptors, however the iodide derivative has a lesser effective concentration required for the receptor. They are all partial agonists, but appear stronger in their agonist effect than say, LSD (~30-40%, whereas LSD is about 15% if I recall correctly). I'm not sure if phosphatidyl inositol secondary messenger systems were analysed for these either, which would give some hints about psychedelic activity.

The isopropylsulfide derivative looks particularly weird to me, not sure if it was investigated in the literature.

An aside: Ralf also tested out the N-(2-Hydroxybenzyl) tryptamine derivatives and found them to be strong 5HT2A agonists as either the 5-Methoxylated derivatives or not. Could be interesting compounds to assay.

 

[nuke]

yeah, i tried to dismantle a flonase nasal mister but that didn't work out so well May try another brand, but i'm betting i can find an empty one at some herbal medicine hippie type store, or a pharmacy, but i haven't seen any at any of the pharmacies right around my house. Or i may just insufflate some liquid, i doubt it would be all that difficult, but I don't want to waste any of this rarity, though i'm sure that's pretty much unavoidable .

I would worry about wasting it, it's insanely cheap to make. The companies selling it must be laughing all the way to the bank with this one...

 

[nuke]

Has there been any example in the past of a molecule that was subjectively pleasant and non-damaging, only to be later discovered as particularly harmful even in mildly active and infrequent dosages?

I wouldn't count MDMA, 2ct7 or Bromo-Dfly as examples of that because they've only caused serious problems when used irresponsibly

Methamphetamine... When it first became widespread in the US it was actually marketed as a more mellow form of amphetamine. Even in small doses it seems to cause some pretty nasty toxicity.

 

[psykap]

psood0nym Im going to start research with new NBOMes for next week .
First I am going to try 500 mcg 25N-NBOMe(dosage 400-700 mcg) , next will be 25G and 25E , I would be grateful if someone will try this compounds, write more details about them . Im wonder how is dosage for E and G .How do you think ? It will be similarity in dose to 25C-NBOMe ? I didnt buy 25T-4 , 25G seems more interesting .

 

[skillet]

Psood0nym, are you interested in what's published on 25T4, 25E and 25N, or the N-benzyls in general? Nothing is published on those three, AFAIK. As for selectivity, the only compounds that have been relatively widely screened at different receptors are 25I-NBOMe (quite extensive, by Nichols) and 25B-NBOMe (not so thorough, in Heim's thesis). They do seem to be quite selective, though selectivity over the 5-HT2C receptor isn't that high (~10x for 25I).

Nuke, the data in Heim's thesis are EC50's not affinities. And the intrinsic activities published vary quite a lot depending on the assay used - Nichols found IA's of 84% for LSD and 81% for 25I-NBOMe in human 5-HT2A expressing human embyonic kidney cells. I'm not sure how well any of these assays correspond to psychedelic activity in people, or which might be closest. I think using human receptors is a start, but they're always expressed in cells that don't normally express them, so they don't necessarily function in the same way as they would in neurons.

Psykap, unless somebody's tried them it's impossible to say. Even then, appropriate doses seem to vary quite a lot among different people according to Erny.

 

[nuke]

Nuke, the data in Heim's thesis are EC50's not affinities. And the intrinsic activities published vary quite a lot depending on the assay used

Mea culpa

And the intrinsic activities published vary quite a lot depending on the assay used - Nichols found IA's of 84% for LSD and 81% for 25I-NBOMe in human 5-HT2A expressing human embyonic kidney cells

True... that value I used was from the study of LSD and the dimethylazetidine derivative of lysergic acid. It depends a lot on the assay type used

 

[psood0nym]

psood0nym Im going to start research with new NBOMes for next week .
First I am going to try 500 mcg 25N-NBOMe(dosage 400-700 mcg) , next will be 25G and 25E , I would be grateful if someone will try this compounds, write more details about them . Im wonder how is dosage for E and G .How do you think ? It will be similarity in dose to 25C-NBOMe ? I didnt buy 25T-4 , 25G seems more interesting .

I hope to try at least one of the newest ones, but as skillet has revealed, there's not much to go by to make recommendations about doses. I'd IM 100 ug, and add 100 ug every half hour until something substantial is going on. It's frustrating that tolerance develops so fast because your sensitivity is reducing as you're titrating the dose, making an estimate of what a full single shot dose should be difficult to ascertain. Add on top of that Erny's observation that tolerance takes two weeks to return to normal and the massive difference in the sensitivity to these compounds for different individuals and you have months of systematic dosage increases to deal with just to (responsibly) figure out your own dose of a single NBOMe compound!

Psood0nym, are you interested in what's published on 25T4, 25E and 25N, or the N-benzyls in general? Nothing is published on those three, AFAIK. As for selectivity, the only compounds that have been relatively widely screened at different receptors are 25I-NBOMe (quite extensive, by Nichols) and 25B-NBOMe (not so thorough, in Heim's thesis). They do seem to be quite selective, though selectivity over the 5-HT2C receptor isn't that high (~10x for 25I).

Thanks for the info. I read up on Nichol's stuff and it seems that due to unknown complications, esp. possible differential modulation of second messengers, that I can't get as close to understanding broad experiential effects from proportionality of receptor binding as I had naively fantasized. I'll just have to keep stuffing unresearched drugs into myself to see what happens! ... actually some part of me likes that better anyways.

 

[CesarMillan]

I noticed some difference between 25c and 25d with 25d being the more emotionally and visually interesting of the two but in all honesty I don't think I could tell the difference in a blind study

Further to my earlier question too... are there any examples of subjectively favorable substances being significantly harmful... at dosages of .5mg?

 

[skillet]

Thanks for the info. I read up on Nichol's stuff and it seems that due to unknown complications, esp. possible differential modulation of second messengers, that I can't get as close to understanding broad experiential effects from proportionality of receptor binding as I had naively fantasized. I'll just have to keep stuffing unresearched drugs into myself to see what happens! ... actually some part of me likes that better anyways.

Haha Yeah the more you know the more complicated it gets!

I can't really imagine these are physically harmful, the dose it so low that possible toxic metabolites shouldn't be an issue, they're pretty selective for 5-HT2 and the rapid, long lasting tolerance should prevent any binging. I could be completely wrong, of course.

 

[farmaz]

That's active at around 400ng

jesus wept!!!

if i were you i would stay well away, 3 doses are gonna be just over 1mg, i hope you got VERY GOOD quality scales to weight that kinda dose out.

 

[Rasetsu]

Hi guys, I would like to report my experience with 25C.

First I've used 500mcg drop on blotter and took it sublingualy. The Effects came out in 15-30 minutes and was very weak, slightly morphing patterns on the floor + mood lifting. The "trip" has ended after 2-3 hrs.

I was very dissapointed and then I decided to try it nasaly. This time I've used 1mg (2 drops with 500 mcgs) and it was like WOW! Full effects came out in about 2 or 3 minutes. It was as visual as hell, like crazy electric carnival. Everything became truly alive, objects, floor, music everything was morphing and changing shape and color from green to pink. Also, there was huge electric flows flying and dancing all over the place. Appreciation of music was also very very cool. There was also very strong CEVs, like colorfull rainbow spirals. I was very surprised, cos there was almost zero body load, very clean experience. As for mental effects it was OK, very nice and clear mind expansion + euphoria, without crazy alien shit and ego deaths like DMT or some stong tryptamines do.
The whole show has ended in about 3-4 hours. The first 30-60 minutes was the strongest plateau, then 1-1.5 hrs mild plateau, and the last few hours there was still light afterglow effects. I was able to sleep after 6hrs.

It was very cool and magical experience. Very beautiful substance.
Thanks.

 

[Erny]

psood0nym Im going to start research with new NBOMes for next week .
First I am going to try 500 mcg 25N-NBOMe(dosage 400-700 mcg)

Be careful with this one. Several people reported it to be extremely intense at 1000 mcg. I also hear rather often that it feels like being more potent than 2C-C-NBOMe in people's individual experiences. When C feels like being more potent than N - like I feel it - looks to be a less common case. So even 500 mcg may be somewhat too much for a very sensitive person.

 

[Solipsis]

Do you have any indication to believe that 25N-NBOMe shows any of the strange traits 2C-N seems to have i.e. a strong body load or potential for overwhelming sensations? I'm picking up a weird vibe from 2C-N reports even if there are few of them and not put into so many words that I can paraphrase it any better.
These bomamines sound like they don't necessarily feel like their 2C counterparts (well the D and C do to some extent but E and others not?) because for example that peripheral effects are reduced because of the potency of the bomamines. Am I thinking in the right direction?

FYI the C gets picked up soon and the D,E,N and G may be added to the list but I have reasons to postpone experiments with pretty much any psychedelic indefinitely so can't contribute in the name of science and subjective experiences thereof.

 

[Erny]

Do you have any indication to believe that 25N-NBOMe shows any of the strange traits 2C-N seems to have i.e. a strong body load or potential for overwhelming sensations?

I don't get what is meant by "overwhelming sensations" here, may you point at the text this phrase is from? I should do a search on this board myself I suppose, but don't feel interested enough and will probably forget it. Any of potent NBOMe PEAs may develop into sensory overload if you take enough, not just the nitro.

Take a look at my last post here in the DON thread. It is not a minute description but may help us to find a common language.

NBOMe-2C-N has more of unpleasant sensations at the physical level than say, NBOMe-2C-C or I. Nevertheless, these aren't even close to being as bad as those in DON. These sensations aren't a problem in general.

I wasn't feeling too sick or disoriented in plain 2C-N and thus do not want to compare it with it's nbome so not to confuse you. Although some of my friends suffered much more. But they were complaining about it being extremely sedative and about strong nausea that didn't go away when the effects plateaued. I felt no nausea there, but I usually don't have any in the psychedelic PEAs except mescaline in a huge dose. Plain 2C-N had some resemblance with AMT for me, in it's visual effects, sensations and state of the mind itself. And AMT for me has much in common with MDA (though less empathogenic and more psychedelic). That is, in general 2C-N felt close to the way 5-HT releasers feel like, although not being entactogenic or remarkably euphoric. While it is just a weird psychedelic PEA and little else.