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The Big and Dandy Ketamine Thread (Archived start - 11-20-07)

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nuke said:
I'm going to append a warning to high dose nasal ketamine:
I was at a party last night and this guy was offering some free K, me and my friend abliged and it was fine, but then this guy who looked kind of drunk came over and wanted some and stuck the bill right into the bag and took a big snort. He ended up rolling around on the ground puking himself for a good hour or so, so you may want a sitter!
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As has been mentioned above, the puking was not due to snorting lots of K... it is due to the alcohol. Even a small bump with alcohol will cause nausea and extreme numbness and discoordination.

ps. This only applies to alcohol. Other depressants are fine with me.. I have mixed K with benzos at various doses of each, and have IVed a full dose of K with Heroin at the same time (it was one of the most interesting expriences I had).
 
ive done K with G.. seen people puke balls off that too (pooped my pants in my sleep once lol.. but that was once outta 100's of times)

also with oxy, as well as K+benzo... however i have a script for benzo and use it nightly and i wouldnt really suggest these combos to anyone unless they have ALOT of experience with both of what they take
 
Hewhomustnotbenamed said:
Here's a question.

I've taken ketamine many times before, always snorting, but have never had a K-hole experience, as it seems a bit intense. I am now interested in venturing into the K-hole, and was wondering if it is OK to do so alone, or should I have a sitter present. I've heard that it's possible to vomit while being in the hole, and than to choke as a result of being totally unaware of what is happening to your physical self. Has any ever thrown up while in the K-hole. Would taking the ketamine on an empty stomach reduce the chances of this happening? (obviously yes)...
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Maybe do it with a friend the first time but I prefer to do it alone. I did it alone the first time and I just felt very good. I can't socialize for shit when K-holing and feel rather uncomfortable when there's someone with me who's not on the same wavelength. I've never thrown up while on K or gotten any nausea and I like to eat while on it too. I don't eat much but I eat and it feels good :)
Just DON'T do it when your parents or someone else is in the house as it is possible, however very unlikely, to get in a negative thoughtloop when you're worrying about something . I've had some of the most devastating, life-changing, meaningful K-trips this way though. Ever since that one time I don't even feel like doing K that much anymore like I used to. I used to be "snort as much as I can", now I rather go to bed after a bump or two.
Jamshyd said:
As has been mentioned above, the puking was not due to snorting lots of K... it is due to the alcohol. Even a small bump with alcohol will cause nausea and extreme numbness and discoordination.

ps. This only applies to alcohol. Other depressants are fine with me.. I have mixed K with benzos at various doses of each, and have IVed a full dose of K with Heroin at the same time (it was one of the most interesting expriences I had).
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Never had problems with alcohol, except for a much worse loss of balance. Driving a bike never seemed as dangerous.
Benzo's pretty much kill the trip for me, all that's left is the physical sensation.
delta_9 said:
^never tried this combo, but I agree with dirt. K is best used either with some n2o, cannabis, or not at all. Combining it with alcohol is alsking for trouble IMO.
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K is good with almost anything IME. All psychedelics I've combined it with responded well (mushrooms, LSD, 5-MeO-MiPT, MDMA). Even speed and coke are fun, but very weird. Haven't had any problems with alcohol.

Does ketamine "expire" in powder form? Had some for over 2 months which still seems as potent but I'm not sure.
 
Welcome back F&B... I hope you had a good time! I'm sure you did, if nothing else, with the AMT!

How do AMT and methylone combine, BTW?
 
I'm looking forward to trying ketamine for the first time soon. There was always something that put me off about it. Perhaps it was when I was a kid reading up about DXM and Olney's lesions. The DM Turner story is also quite tragic :(

I will only have a small sample of around 250mg so will have to try to make the most of it. I'm quite interested in the reported anti-depressant effects of low doses and also the synergy with other psychedelics.

I just hope I don't end up liking this "Frankenstein molecule" too much :\
 
e1evene1even said:
I'm looking forward to trying ketamine for the first time soon. There was always something that put me off about it. Perhaps it was when I was a kid reading up about DXM and Olney's lesions. The DM Turner story is also quite tragic :(

I will only have a small sample of around 250mg so will have to try to make the most of it. I'm quite interested in the reported anti-depressant effects of low doses and also the synergy with other psychedelics.

I just hope I don't end up liking this "Frankenstein molecule" too much :\
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From what I recall, IIRC lol, DXM is kind of by itself in the toxicity issue when it comes to dissociatives. K seems relatively harmless in that aspect. Other than the potential for addiction, it "seems" harmless to me, maybe someone with more ADD knowledge can expound on what I said. :)
 
Zagenth said:
From what I recall, IIRC lol, DXM is kind of by itself in the toxicity issue when it comes to dissociatives. K seems relatively harmless in that aspect. Other than the potential for addiction, it "seems" harmless to me, maybe someone with more ADD knowledge can expound on what I said. :)
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dxm addiction is a very real possibility. It dosen't seem to come up often, and the only thread on Bl that even remotely covers dxm addiction is here, but rest assured it's not something you wanna go getting involved with.;)
Whether it's better or worse than ketamine, I can't say. It most likely depends on a number of things
Addiction is something I've fortunately been able to stay far away from.
 
So I just tried Ketamine for the first time. I wanted to try a dosage similar to the one used in the recent studies on depression as a first dose.

This was also my first time with nasal ingestion of any drug. I took approximately 30mg and could start to feel it within 5 minutes or so. The "burn" wasn't bad at all, but the drip was a bit annoying.

Since I haven't tried ketamine before and don't know what one is supposed to do while on it, I decided to simply meditate with my eyes closed. I also took some frontal lobe EEG measurements for entertainment purposes only ;)


Once thing I noticed was that the ketamine appeared to alter the ratio of alpha/theta brainwaves. Theta waves are correlated with REM sleep, mystical experiences, out of body experiences, the unconscious mind etc.

The design I was using in my biofeedback software included the Peniston protocol which is used to treat depression among other things. Basically the goal is to increase both your alpha and theta waves and then make your theta waves "crossover" so they are more powerful than your alpha waves. A working hypothesis is that this allows state dependent memories from childhood (theta state) etc. to be brought to consciousness and resolved.

It appears to me that Ketamine may facilitate this "crossover" state that the Penistion protocol aims for.

I also found a few interesting connections between the two treatments for depression which might be worthy of more research by people with letters behind their name that know what they are talking about. =D

STATE-CONTEXT DEPENDENT LEARNING AND RETRIEVAL said:
Robert Boustany (personal communication, 1998 ), a biophysicist involved in neurofeedback research, also alludes to phenomena related to state-dependent learning. He suggests that NMDA receptors act as a double lock and key to encoded patterns of behavior in the individual, and that ability to "broadly" activate the NMDA receptors is essential to personal transformation.

http://www.enhancementinstitute.com/neuropublishedII.html
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[QUOTE="BBC: Drug 'treats depression in hours']

Many antidepressants target levels of brain chemicals, such as serotonin and dopamine, and, over time, the accumulation of these chemicals can affect a patient's mood. But this can take several weeks.

But the team believes ketamine is having a faster effect because it is targeting a different brain-protein, called the NMDA receptor, which is thought to play a critical role in learning and memory.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5253800.stm
[/QUOTE]

Its impossible to draw any conclusions from a single small dose, but I think I could grow fond of this stuff in the future.

Right now I think I'm going to dig around and see if I can find that old John Lilly book... :)
 
Sounds cool! Was this the s isomer?

Alpha waves are also correlated with desynchronization in object feature ascription of conscious attention. It would seem understandable then that ketamine encouraged these types of wave frequencies since it is a disassociative.
 
Also to anybody that may know (FB, jamshyd?), could you propose a theory for ketamine's antidepressant effects?

I understand how some psychedelics could have antidepressant effects (over and above psychological effects), especially if we are throwing in a MAOI element to the picture. But I can't see how an NMDA antagonist could have these properties (I don't know much about NMDA antagonism).
 
Not sure what it was. It was a pure white crystalline powder.

I'm also quite interested to measure a "K-hole". I bet that delta waves would be greatly increased. Unfortunately I only have a 2 channel EEG unit but it is still quite useful for consciousness experiments.

One thing that is a definite plus with K is that there don't seem to be any hangover effects at small doses. It wears off quickly and you are back to normal.

I think I may try a brief K phase and then try to forget it. I can easily see how this could be habit forming.
 
e1evene1even said:
One thing that is a definite plus with K is that there don't seem to be any hangover effects at small doses. It wears off quickly and you are back to normal.
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I dare say but YMMV that I can binge for 10 hours on K, sleep for 4 hours and be slightly better than back to normal AND at work!
And I mean work. I lift 30-or so metric tons a day.
Other psychedelics? I need at least 2 days off afterwards.
The experience would suck bigtime if I had to work the next day, and work itself would suck too.

Gotta love K.

Lemme repeat the negatives: 1. it's hookey. 2. overdoing it makes me lose interest in daily life.
Deal with those 2 closely connected aspects (as I have) and it's perfect.
 
This is slightly off topic but ptah could you please describe how serotonergic (LSD, mushrooms, etc) psychedelics affect your ability to exert effort physically (in the day or two after)?
 
I don't feel like working out or working the day (or two) afterwards. That's it.
 
samadhi_smiles said:
The plan is to take a week break and snort 55mg of the S Ket with 10mg of 4-HO-DMT (at the same time).
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Nice... I combined ket (racemic) with 4-AcO-DMT some while back, and it made the experience brighter and more ethereal, and more abstract. I enjoyed it muchly... the body buzz was also a perfect blend between the two, and I know you understand the pleasantries of a 4-AcO-DMT body buzz =D
 
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