Opioids The Big and Dandy Fentanyl Analogues Thread - Acetylfentanyl / Butyrfentanyl

[sekio]

The Big and Dandy Fentanyl Analogues Thread - Acetylfentanyl / Butyrfentanyl

This is the thread for discussing the two analogues of fentanyl that have been seen in the wild recently.

Warning: like fentanyl, these analogues are incredibly potent opioids and must be treated with care. Opiate overdose can lead to death.

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Acetylfentanyl, aka desmethyl fentanyl, N-(1-phenethylpiperidin-4-yl)-N-phenylacetamide

Acetyl fentanyl (hydrochloride) is a mu opioid receptor agonist (EC50 = 676 nM in vitro) with receptor binding properties similar to that of morphine. It is a known process impurity in the synthesis of the opioid analgesic, fentanyl (EC50 ~30 nM).

In acute toxicity studies in mice, the LD50 (the dose causing death of 50% of test animals) of acetylfentanyl and fentanyl are 9.3 mg/kg and 62 mg/kg, respectively. Significant bleeding in the small intestines of mice was observed in acetylfentanyl-administered mice.

Relative potency = about 1/20 of fentanyl, estimated, based on these figures. (2.5mg freebase = 125ug fentanyl IV = 10mg morphine IV approx.)
THESE NUMBERS DO NOT FACTOR IN RELATIVE BIOAVAILIBILITES - ALWAYS START LOW!

LD50 of fentanyl in monkeys = 30 mcg/kg (0.03 mg/kg)
LD50 of acetylfentanyl (predicted) = 4.5 mcg/kg (0.0045 mg/kg) - 300 mcg (0.3mg) for a 70kg opioid intolerant user!!!
DEA Diversion - Acetylfentanyl (pdf)
SWGDRUG monograph - Acetylfentanyl (pdf)

Naloxone doses of 2mg+ are claimed to reverse acetylfentanyl
Tox Tidbits - Acetylfentanyl (pdf)

Butyryl fentanyl, aka butyrfentanyl, N-(1-phenethylpiperidin-4-yl)-N-phenylbutyramide

Butyryl fentanyl (hydrochloride) is a synthetic fentanyl analog that binds the μ-opioid receptor with lower affinity compared to fentanyl (IC50s = 60 versus 2 nM and Kis = 32 versus 1.06 nM, respectively). It has been identified as one of several process impurities from a forced degradation study on fentanyl.

Relative potency = 1/30 of fentanyl, estimated, based on these figures. (3.75mg freebase = 125ug fentanyl IV = 10mg IV morphine approx.)

THESE NUMBERS DO NOT FACTOR IN RELATIVE BIOAVAILIBILITES - ALWAYS START LOW!

LD50 not know for butyr-fentanyl

More reading:
Butyrfentanyl - Wiki
Acetylfentanyl - Wiki
CDC Issues Alert On Deadly New Designer Drug, Acetyl Fentanyl
fentanyl analogues users input !
Trip Report - Acetyl fentanyl - varying dosages
Acetylfentanyl potency
Canada - Desmethyl fentanyl and bromadol bust

I have Acetyl Fentanyl. I needs more information on this chemical. I did search the forum and only found one post on it and it did not pertain to information such as dosage.

I need to know if to weigh it, I have a .01mg balance, using a full suit, gloves and a full face respirator such as he would with normal fentanyl or if he will be fine with the respirator and gloves.

Any information would be nice as he can only find an article or two such as the rhodium.

I would like to know what dose to start at and if any other precautions should be taken.

 

[polymath]

If you mean a fentanyl derivative that has an acetyl instead of propionyl substituent at the nitrogen, then its most likely less potent than fentanyl itself.

Wikipedia mentions only the alpha-methyl derivative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphamethylacetylfentanyl

 

[ralf2]

I doubt there is much information on it being used in humans. But from a book I have it is 50 times more potent than pethidine (in mice!), whereas fentanyl is 700x pethidine. That is, acetylfentanyl is 14 times less potent as fentanyl in mice, but who knows how potent it is in humans. Well, at least it's a good indicator. Even so that is still pretty strong so watch out and dose very carefully. I would guess it's probably equally short acting as fentanyl.

Ref: Drugs affecting the central nervous system, Volume 2, page 52 (1968).

 

[Alcyone]

To the OP; before you start knocking back milligram quantities of the stuff under the assumption that it's less potent than fentanyl, you'd better make absolutely bloody sure you're dealing with straight acetylfentanyl and not one of the alpha-methyl/3-methyl or beta-hydroxy analogues. Otherwise, there could be a bit of a disaster heading your way.

 

[FPU4eva]

i would also like to know, a friend got 50mg in the mail and i told him not to even open the bag before i know the dosage for him

 

[sekio]

Acetylfentanyl is mostly untested in man.. that said, doses would likely be 1 - 1/20th of fentanyl. Fentanyl doses vary a good amount between people depending on their body weight & opioid tolerance though.

 

[negrogesic]

It might be overkill to handle it as a T+ compound, but logical precautions should be taken.

The question is, if you have said compound and implied equipment, why are you asking us how to dose?

 

[CoReCoNTAX]

(Pure) Butyr-Fentanyl

Does anyone know what the overdose limit of this substance may be?

1-4mg gets me nodding hard! Usually vaporize it off foil inhaling as hard as possible with a straw, may invest in a bong today (lost so many bongs)

+Please post any experiences you have on this substance.

All the best8)

 

[Speedhack]

man I think direct flame will burn it... you need to smoke in foil just as heroin.

regards

 

[Halif]

Firstly, let me state what should be obvious: This is one of the most dangerous substances around due to its potency. I'm not sure what Corecontax means in asking about the overdose limit.... Just know that you're using something which you don't know want to push any 'limits' with.

Secondly, my experience with this and 4FBF is that they do what you would expect from a fentanyl analogue. Very short lasting, very strong opioid effect. Easy to get carried away chasing the high because it's so damn short. I also found that the effects were not particularly enjoyable compared to other opioids. Just strong.

 

[walterdini]

Can you snort or eat this compound?

 

[DroneLore]

I was under the impression 4 mg of fentanyl could kill a vet. Is this analogue significantly less potent? God damnit, as awesome as opioid RCs would be, why the fuck would they be fentanyl derivatives? The extreme risk of death, the brief duration of the high, it just doesn't even sound that good.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

I was under the impression 4 mg of fentanyl could kill a vet. Is this analogue significantly less potent? God damnit, as awesome as opioid RCs would be, why the fuck would they be fentanyl derivatives? The extreme risk of death, the brief duration of the high, it just doesn't even sound that good.

They're probably fentanyl analogues because the starting material for synthesis of the hydrocodone/oxycodone line of drugs is thebaine, a drug which is still derived from P. Somniferum (opium poppy). Fentanyl is a derivative of piperidine which is far easier to obtain.

I bet it's like the opioid equivalent of crack; a quick rush followed rapidly by a urge to redose.

The half life however is still long enough to kill you. Honestly there is a reason fentanyl is generally sold inside 72 hour patches.

 

[Halif]

I bet it's like the opioid equivalent of crack; a quick rush followed rapidly by a urge to redose.

That's a pretty fair analogy

You're right that there's a rush/crash/redose cycle which is short enough to make it a relatively impractical opioid.

Also, it's just not a great high to begin with, and thus bingeing on it is a particularly futile exercise (not to mention dangerous).

God damnit, as awesome as opioid RCs would be, why the fuck would they be fentanyl derivatives? The extreme risk of death, the brief duration of the high, it just doesn't even sound that good.

You're right in thinking that it doesn't sound great. It's not.

However, as an opiate addict, I found that taking some BF sublingually provided some pain relief when I had an injury a while back and wasn't able to get acute pain relief from my usual opiate of choice.

So it has its function. It's strong and feels clean. It's just not what I'd call recreational.

And, once again, it's really, really dangerous because it's strong in miniscule amounts. It's nothing something that the vast majority of people should feel the need to seek out. THere are lots of other better things to use out there.

Stay safe

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

That's a pretty fair analogy

You're right that there's a rush/crash/redose cycle which is short enough to make it a relatively impractical opioid.

Also, it's just not a great high to begin with, and thus bingeing on it is a particularly futile exercise (not to mention dangerous).



You're right in thinking that it doesn't sound great. It's not.

However, as an opiate addict, I found that taking some BF sublingually provided some pain relief when I had an injury a while back and wasn't able to get acute pain relief from my usual opiate of choice.

So it has its function. It's strong and feels clean. It's just not what I'd call recreational.

And, once again, it's really, really dangerous because it's strong in miniscule amounts. It's nothing something that the vast majority of people should feel the need to seek out. THere are lots of other better things to use out there.

Stay safe

The problem I would think is chasing that high, and with something active at such quantities.

It's a little worrying that the OP would ask it's "overdose limit."

You need to know exactly what you're doing to not kill yourself. The lethal dose is of course subjective to an individuals tolerance. I believe 1mg of regular fentanyl would kill a non-tolerant person, however that might not even be enough to satiate some people with high opioid tolerance.

 

[CoReCoNTAX]

I have a high opiate tolerance and addiction. i am on 4-6mg Subutex nasal. This cuts through the subutex like knife through butter and YES I agree, this IS the 'Crack' of opiates, I find myself constantly re-dosing and making bigger and bigger doses (dangerous I know, this is partly why I asked for an approximate overdose limit)

My personal preference on this drug is that the 'high' itself is lovely and its just the duration that reduces my rating on it.

I almost vaporized 100mg (in total, throughout the day) yesterday. FUCK!! Good thing was the last 3 days i didn't take my Subutex (I was able to go for a nice shit this morning at last! the BF doesn't constipate me AT ALL compared to Subutex), this BF may help me in my Opiate Detox, or it could just make it a thousand times worse, time will tell.

Thanks for all your posts and information, keep your experiences, ideas and advise coming.

All the best.

Peace

 

[sekio]

This compound is unknown in the literature; treat it like "normal" fenatnyl and you won't go wrong.

 

[Trippy1]

butyr-fentanyl

I was wondering what the best way to evenly distibute butyr-fentanyl powder into lactose would be. I know I can't dry mix the two due to likelihood of creating hot pockets. Would it be possible to dissolve the fentanyl and mannitol both into a solvent such as ethanol or methanol and then evaporate, or will they evaporate and seperate at different rates?

Before its brought up I'm not trying to mix it into a powder for resale, I just want the safe ablity to dose, transport, and share and this chemical is substantially cheaper pure instead of pre-mixed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyrfentanyl

butyrylfentanyl, butyr-fentanyl, B-F, N-(1-(2-phenylethyl)-4-piperidinyl)-N-phenylbutyramide

 

[Tryptamite]

I think dissolving them both in a solvent, mixing and letting that evaporate would be a lot safer than just mixing the two powders together. Then again I have no experience in the matters.

I wanted to try this compound but after searching I only found one company that sold it and there were mixed reports as to their legitimacy.

 

[TheAzo]

Solvent mixing is not as good of an idea as you think.

Say you have 20g of cut and 0.2g of active material. Say both are soluble at 100g/L (just pulling numbers out of my ass). So you dissolve it in a quarter liter, and then start evaporating it. When you're down to 200ml, the cut starts crystalizing. But the active material is only at 1g/L - way below saturated, so it's all staying in solution. When you're all done, you'll end up with a solid cake consisting of crystals of cut almost entirely free of drug, with higher concentrations at the boundaries between these crystals, and highest concentrations of all in a highly active crust on the top (because when almost all the solvent is evaporated, the crystals of cut will act like a wick, drawing the solvent to the top, where it can evaporate and deposit the drug).

Bad idea.

Mixing powders accurately is something that people in the chemical engineering discipline have devoted considerable attention to. If the particle sizes or densities are different, the brazil nut effect can separate them even if they're initially well mixed (i've heard of this happening to cut drugs). And sometimes it's very hard to mix them at all. Pyrotechnicians encounter this problem too - since they work with dissimilar powders where the consequences of poor mixing can be dire - they mix things by shaking them through fine screens repeatedly, or via a tube mixer (bottle containing powders slowly rotating around and end, so the powder gets turned over and over again) or, for the best mixing, via ball milling (think rock tumbler).

The point is - mixing powders evenly is hard, hard enough that unless you are going to be extremely rigorous, I would council you to not consume mixed powders that would kill you if they weren't mixed right.

Why can't you instead keep it as a liquid?

What RoA does one use with Butyr-fentanyl?
If you're snorting it, use one of those nasal sprayer bottles. Calibrate carefully, seal tightly, and mark the level on the bottle after every time you use it, so if the level is lower than the marking, you know some must have evaporated and you should add more solvent to raise the level to the marking.
If you're using sublingual administration, just get a dropper bottle and do the same as I recommended above. If you want more portability, get a sheet of blotter paper (you can get enough paper to make scores of sheets for a pittiance if you get blank white blotter paper online - people press leaves between it, it's some kinda art thing), perforate it (I got a paper perforater thing online that works well) along the lines, and then put the appropriate number of drops on each square.
If you're IVing it, prepare a stock solution in bacteriostatic water.