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The Big and Dandy DXM Thread (archive start - 12-13-07)

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"People using serotonin-affecting drugs have been known to have seizures in conjunction with 5-HTP."

Where is your source for this? I've heard this a few times now and I would have to disagree.

I *ALWAYS* take 5-HTP both before AND after any drug, especially MDxx and DXM!

It not only makes the trip a lot stronger, it causes a much more pleasant body high, a slightly longer experience (about 7 hours as opposed to my usual 6) and no crash.

I've never heard anything about 5-HTP and seizures. I know that tryptophan causes it, but 5-HTP is a direct precursor to serotonin, tryptophan is not. Also, 5-HTP has been shown to have an extremely low toxicity level, with many people taking up to a gram and having nothing worse happen than an upset stomach and a few visuals.

Also, if it is so dangerous, mind telling me why rollers consistently use it when they come down, and quite often to preload, both with no ill effects? As a matter of fact, I saw someone go into a small seizure fit on MDxx after putting on those damn light goggles, they gave him some water and one 50mg 5-HTP capsule (Natrol brand)... about 10 minutes later, his seizures stopped, his body high went up, and he went off and joined a cuddle puddle for the rest of the evening.
 
What I was stating was not scientific. I stated it as "have been known" as opposed to "has been proven to" because there is no decent conclusion reached on the matter at this point in time.

My source is quite a few places. I run a Zine about DXM (a "serotonin-affecting drug"), and generally get at least 10-15 e-mails a week from it. Over the time period I've run the zine, I've read a few accounts of seizures of combining DXM and a 5-HTP supplement. I have also read, online at various sites, about other "serotonin-affecting drugs" in combination with 5-HTP causing troubles such as seizures. A list of these drugs would include but not be limited to DXM, MDMA (and MDA, MDE, ect.), SSRIs, cocaine, and a variety of other less promenient drugs.

Another possibility would be the speculation of these incidents being isloated or somehow related to a variable gene. Or it could be isolated incidents with unknown items of food, or a million other possibilities.

Since the occurances are notable enough to be noted on various expierence reports, websites, forums, and has been mentioned among my circle of friends--I would tend to agree with the notion that caution is needed.

I will provide you with a few exceprts I looked up within 2 mins, a whole extensive library is out there if you just run a few google searchs for the right key-words.

In this 1st one, note the onset of the muscle contractions after taking another 5-HTP capsule (the time chart shows it was during the MDMA expierence), indicating the muscle contractions were not a side effect of the MDMA but rather the 5-HTP, or perhaps a 5-HTP and MDMA interaction.

" I preloaded with 200mgs 5HTP. After a 2.5 - 3 hour weak roll, I took another 200mgs of 5HTP. About half an hour later (not rolling anymore) I started to feel like /shit/. My stomach started hurting and I noticed my eyes were very bloodshot. All of my muscles felt uncomfortable and I started kind of flexing them. About 10 minutes later, my muscles started flexing involuntary...I started to get a bit worried because nothing like this has ever happened to me. This progressed into involuntary twitching (mostly my upper body), then convulsions. At this point I decided to go to the ER (whee). They did nothing for me for an hour and a half then gave me 5mg Valium (iv) which stopped my convulsions almost instantly. I still had some very small twitches, but nothing big.

"That's basically the short version of what happened (don't get me started on stupid, ignorant, dismissive doctors). At first I suspected PMA because I had most of the symptoms associated with it...but my tempature didn't rise, it actually dropped (97) even though I felt like I was burning up. So anyways...fast forward to work today. I took 150mgs of 5HTP...a little over an hour later...guess what? Yup. I started to feel like shit and had a few muscle twitches."

- http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=5340

Next, the person took WAY too much 5-HTP. But the toxicity levels dicussed and the effects of the 5-HTP pre-MDA dose indicate that the author of the expierence had curious side effects from 5-HTP, (So much for the low to little toxicity) despite the OD of it.

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=3145

In this interation of an SSRI as well as 5-HTP, we can see the author expierenced the twitching as well on a regular 100mg dose of 5-HTP.

" I woke up in the morning feeling paralyzed. I have slept heavily before, but usually after I lie there for a while, sense returns. I lay there for a long while without being able to move my heavy limbs mor ethan a few degrees. It was really terrifying, and only the sensation of unreality that had followed me from the dream kept me from feeling panic. I remembered having taken the 5HTP the night before, and understanding that, in combination with an SSRI in my bloodstream, that it was a risky move"

"I felt so dizzy I was nauseated; I felt on the verge of fainting every few steps. With great effort I took a shower and got dressed; I had plenty to do that day, being unemployed and such, but I just felt weak and removed from 'reality'."

- http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=3397

All in all serotonergic drugs are not good to combine, due to the risk of serotonin syndrome and seizures and other ill effects.

-Nitin
 
I'm wanting to try DXM for the first time tonight. Going to take 200mg worth of DXM via Robitussin max strength (its aabout 2oz = 200mg dxm)

are there ANY bad effects that could happen besides naseau, itching, etc? I weigh 210lbs btw. any other tips you can give to a first time user? I've read through the DXM FAQs, read the experiences on erowid, searched alot on forums, etc. I'm still kinda nervous, but with 200mg i doubt much could go wrong, right??

thanks!
 
For those that still don't have got a clue as to why the person above me shouldn't be doing this, please read the following CAREFULLY..

ALWAYS start out with a dose of about 1.2 mg/kg (around the 80-120 mg DXM). Did you know that 7% of the world population has a p450 (DXM metabolite) deficiency..? This means that these people are unable to convert DXM into DXO properly, or at all, which increases duration, strength and side effects considerably.. A dose of 100 mg for someone who's enzyme deficient or a poor metabolizer should equal a much higher dose, so starting out with 300 mg of DXM could prove to be disastrous.

100 mg shouldn't do much if everything is allright, though if you're enzyme deficient, you will easily notice..
 
DXM and sleep disorders

The posts above reminded me that I had another occurence of sleep paralysis the other day (my third or fourth in as many months), this time immediately following a 1st plateau DXM trip. I've never felt comfortable pinning my sleep paralysis on a particular drug -- it raised its head during a period in which I was trying lots of different things -- but now I'm a bit more curious whether DXM isn't a likely culprit.

Anyone else noticed a link between DXM use and sleep weirdness?
 
Re: DXM and sleep disorders

VictorBorge said:
Anyone else noticed a link between DXM use and sleep weirdness?
Click to expand...
I've only noticed sleep weirdness once after using DXM. I took about 600mg, and about 9 hours later (I was basically baseline), I tried to go to sleep. It took me about 7 hours after trying to fall asleep before I actually fell asleep.

That's not usual for me. Usually I have little trouble getting to sleep after DXM.
 
DXM advice, anyone?

In the past month of so I've robodosed about 6 or 7 times, averaging out to around 1-2 trips a week on a moderate dosage (around 350 mgs). I've read the threads and FAQs regarding the toxicity of DXM, but there seems to be more than a few differences between them in terms of mentally impairing you for weeks after doing it and whatnot.

So all you experienced dosers, do you think--if I continued dosing once every week at around 400 mgs--that my train of thought would be damaged?

Has dosing on a level around mine or higher impaired your ability to think weeks after stopping? And also, has anyone had DXM cravings (or just me)?
 
Re: DXM advice, anyone?

DuckSausage said:
And also, has anyone had DXM cravings (or just me)?
Click to expand...

Back in my party days I used to trip on DXM when I could not get my hands on acid..... The strange thing is ....I havent done LSD or DXM in years and out of the two of them I miss DXM dearly....Its a wonderful substance if done in moderation but I went beyond that and would trip on high amounts of DXM 3 or 4 nights a week .....god I miss those days .....look im rambling, hope this helped a bit ;)
 
I used to be a frequent (weekly, more or less) DXM user. It was fuckin' terrible for me... I got floaters in my vision (which still remain), feelings of depersonalization, depression, and a scattered head overall.

Why did I quit? I guess drugs like mushrooms, MDMA, and LSD started becoming available to me at the time, and I felt like these substanes had a lot more left to be explored.

But I haven't touched DXM in almost 2 years. To me the DXM space always felt like "home"... very comforting in almost an opiate-like way. So yes, I was mildly addicted and I more or less went on a binge (3 times in 5 days) before putting the Tussin aside.

What motivated me to quit?
- Other psychedelics, like I already mentioned
- None of my friends wanted to do DXM anymore
- As a "druggie", I felt the need to put *something* behind me
- The shit was fuckin with my sense of reality

Now, don't get me wrong. DXM is one of my all-time favorite drugs. Nothing else has taken me to the places and times that DXM has. I have nothing but respect for DXM as a psychedelic.

But I abused it. And now I abstain to prove to myself and to those close to me that I am able to move on.

...

So, moral of the story, don't use DXM that often!

I have had mild cravings... especially when I'm bored as fuck and remember the comfort and entertainment that DXM used to give me. I still hope to revist DXM one day,... but not until I have a much better handle on my poly-drug use and can honestly say I no longer resort to drugs to escape.
 
Re: DXM advice, anyone?

Ok. Back around 2 years ago I used DXM very often. I would use it about 5-6 times a month. It was my main recreational drug, but I also used E about once a month and did a few other things here and there.

I didn't suffer any permanent damage. I wouldn't recommend taking DXM that frequently though. Frequent usage creates a cloudy mental haze, and judgement is affected (negatively). I definately would not be worried about long term damage, what's important is to realize that DXM can alter the way you think and feel long after the drug wears off if you use it often. The bad thing about that is it's hard to notice until you stop using it for a while.

I'm not at all against the recreational use of DXM. I still love it. DXM is not something like cannabis though, where you can do it all the time and still be relatively ok.

I'd sugest using it once a month max, but don't make it a habit to do it every month. Just use it when you feel like it's a responsible choice, and try not to do it more than once a month.

All this is just my suggestions though, you're free to make your own choices.
 
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Different people will react differently. It is simply impossible to say what will happen to you, or what effects a given level of use will have on your life. Any guideline that says "use no more than X mg every Y days/weeks/months" says more about the degree of caution being exercised by the writer of the guideline than about the actual dangers of DXM. The risks are simply unknown.

As I've said in other threads, I used it for years at c. 750 mg 5 times a week. I have never yet observed mental impairment in myself, though there were certainly negative effects. Luck? Genetics? Continual mental exercise? Who knows?

Like everyone else will say -- use in moderation. In other words, do as I say, not as I did :) I'm not going to say that your mind will likely not be damaged by this use, in case through saying it, I contribute to your continued use, and you do indeed experience damage.

And yes, I did experience cravings for it. I was an addict. Loved it. Still would, if I used it. For some people, it can be very addictive. If you don't want to fall into a really high-use pattern, watch out.
 
PROBLEM WITH PURE DXM POWDER: ANY IDEAS ?

anyone had trouble (bad experiences) with pure dxm hbr powder ?

With otc gellcaps, I always have wonderful dxm trips at 900mg...perfect dose for me ---> (onset=1h, hits you progressivelly, in waves) spiritual, mind travelling, great ophoria, beautiful visions of strange landscape (eye closed), always a deep & peaceful dreamy experience... these OTC gellcaps 900mg dxm experiences were some the best trips I ever had.

But with this pure powder (mine is from dir***che**and looks good quality) I feel damn sick with as little as 400mg :
(onset=30-40minutes, hits you very fast and hard) headache, pressure in the head, no ophoria at all, overheating, feverish, big confusion, vertigo, I feel oppressed so I cannot trip, I'm not dreamy as it's just too uncomfortable, I just go sick & insane (almost deliriant), no fun at all.

Two other people reported similar bad experiences with the pure powder...

Any ideas to explain why I have wonderful trips with 900mg OTC gellcaps, and horrible experiences with only 400mg pure powder ?

I was thinking maybe it's because the pure powder is absorbed much more quickly by the stomach than the otc gellcaps/sirup jelly (which is full of oils that may considerably slow down the absorption resulting in a pleasant progressive come up), so with pure powder the come up is much more intense, effects are much more violent and completely shatter the ophoria/dreamy aspect of the trip...but I'm not sure this is the explanation (if this is it, then I guess I should try ingesting some vegetal oil before taking the dxm powder to slow up absorption, but this makes me fear great puking lol)
 
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i've done DXM quite a few times and i find the trip VERY enjoyable!!! i used to robotrip all the time and i didn't get tired of it, i just had more access to other drugs that i preferred (MDMA & meth). i would LOVE to robotrip again but am unable at the moment.

the first time i robotripped, i got REALLY itchy but after a cold shower and an antihistamine, it stopped and i was fine. i learned to take the antihistamine right before i downed that crappy ass cherry flavored bottle of joy and i didn't get itchy anymore. *sigh* what i would give to be a kid again.
 
genaro, when you take the otc gels do you take them all at once or space them out and if so how far apart? i felt the same way about powder at first. i always had great trips off of otc preps too but i always took them over about an hour. that really seems to make a difference. now i usually take 300 or so mg of powder to start and take the rest of my dose when that peaks and it comes on a lot smoother.
 
well I used to take otc gellcaps this way: one after another which would require some 15 minutes at most (as it's pretty disgusting). Total dose used to be 900mg. And this always gave me a wonderful trip.

With pure powder I feel damn bad with as little as 400mg (whole dose is swallowed at once, inside a gellcap or mixed with some 25 mL cough sirup to help absorption by stomach).


When I go for a 900mg pure powder dxm trip, do you think it would be better if I take 300mg, wait 30 minutes and take another 300mg, and wait 30 minutes again and take the remaining 300mg ?
 
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Hey Genaro, this is exactly my experience with DXM powder too. The come-up was too fast... less euphoria, more hectic trip, feverish, yes, just like that.

In comparison to RoboMaxCough it really sucks.

The reason you like DXM caps (and probably syrup) more is because it's absorbed more slowly so you have a different DXM to DXO ratio as it is broken down by your liver. Some have suggested adding PEG to your DXM powder to slow the absorbtion. I have not tried this but people I trust vouch for this method, so you might want to give it a try if you are going to give your powder DXM another go.

Otherwise, perhaps try splitting your dose in half. Eat half right away, wait an hour, and then eat the other half.
 
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^
what's PEG bluedolphin?

and quite interesting this idea of dxm to dxo ratio making for a good trip , i always thought that dxo was kinda an undesirable element.

would eating a meal before taking the dxm make it better?
 
PEG-400... honestly I don't know exactly what this stuff is but it's in robogels and DXM-containing syrup. Maybe Subdefy will step in and explain this more. :)

Basically, it slows the release and absorbtion of DXM in your digestive tract, or wherever this stuff gets primarily absorbed.

From what I've read DXO is supposedly more dissociative than DXM (which, in comparison, is supposedly more psychedelic). Since I personally find the 2nd half of a DXM trip (like, 3 hours to 6 hours after dosing) to be the most useful, dissociative, and best buzz, I chalk it up to the possibility that having some DXM already metabolized into DXO makes for a better experience than having your liver simply try to metabolize all the DXM at once.

So maybe try to find some PEG-400 to eat with it, or split your dose over the course of an hour or so. I never tried splitting my DXM powder doses (after 4-5 trips on this stuff I went back to RoboMaxCough, while I was still using DXM frequently a few years back), but theoretically either one of these should have a similar effect.

Give it a try next time, and let us know how it went :)
 
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