The Big and Dandy DMT Thread - The Fourth Dimension

[LSDreamer]

rofl, I guess we should all go on MAOi friendly diets at least a month in advance, just in case

 

[Eschaton]

Well the enzyme "turn on" I believe will occur to due the geomagnetic changes.
It is well documented throughout the animal kingdom that geomagnetic field changes affect the pineal and metabolism substantially.

More highly charged particles in the atmosphere; coupled with more intense radiation due to this will lead to this perturbation.

This is all intuition; all highly "pseudo-scientific" but the Mushroom Entity seems to relaying this stuff toward me.



This stuff is simply where my experiences have led me.

Personally, in my trips, I experience my "death"

I have been "there" and witnessed a black mass growing in intensity in the sky as all the people around me begin to hear what each other are thinking. As we collectively realize our demise, everyone realizes the beauty behind it and accepts it. Telepathically we ease into the Eschaton as we realize our eternal nature. All is validated and made right through revelations of affirmations.

This manifestation could be a UFO, a Solar Flare, or a Comet.

I really don't know.

I admit that much.

Cheers guys!

 

[LSDreamer]

I just don't see how your theory can hold up to the existence of MAO.

 

[adrian89987]

DMT has once again proved its ability to completely crush 'me'

 

[LSDreamer]

DMT has once again proved its ability to completely crush 'me'

Its good for you

 

[Eschaton]

I just don't see how your theory can hold up to the existence of MAO.

Existence?

Huh?

 

[LSDreamer]

ex·ist·ence Audio Help /ɪgˈzɪstəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ig-zis-tuhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the state or fact of existing; being.
2. continuance in being or life; life: a struggle for existence.
3. mode of existing: They were working for a better existence.
4. all that exists: Existence shows a universal order.
5. something that exists; entity; being.

 

[Eschaton]

ex·ist·ence Audio Help /ɪgˈzɪstəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ig-zis-tuhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the state or fact of existing; being.
2. continuance in being or life; life: a struggle for existence.
3. mode of existing: They were working for a better existence.
4. all that exists: Existence shows a universal order.
5. something that exists; entity; being.

MAO certainly exists...



But so does MAOI

 

[adrian89987]

Thats exactly what they are saying, what serves as the MAOI?

 

[Eschaton]

Thats exactly what they are saying, what serves as the MAOI?

Endogenous Tetrahydroharmine and the like.

 

[adrian89987]

And where does the excess supply of that and DMT coming from?

 

[LSDreamer]

And so all the people unlucky enough to be on medications that react badly to MAO inhibition are just SOL?

 

[Dondante]

The speaker at my brother's graduation last weekend had an interesting message at the end of his speech. He brought up the importance of civility in public discourse. George Orwell, for example, repeatedly said that society has undergone a significant decline in the quality of discourse. Instead of honoring a degree of mutual respect and gaining credibility through sound logical arguments, people seem to resort to sarcasm. I do it myself sometimes, but when people jump to flaming (online especially), rational discussion is basically abandoned. As mentioned, Willow could have been more considerate in his post, but Eschaton, your following post was meaningless mockery, rather than any attempt at rebuttal.

An interesting aside about belief in fringe ideas:

"Some psychologists believe that the syllogism is the basic unit of human reasoning. They have produced a large body of empirical work around McGuire's famous title "A Syllogistic Analysis of Cognitive Relationships." A central thrust of this thinking is that logic is contaminated by psychological variables such as "wishful thinking," in which subjects confound the liklihood of predictions with the desirability of the predictions. People hear what they want to hear and see what they expect to see. If planners want something to happen they see it as likely to happen. Thus planners ignore possible problems, as in the American experiment with prohibition. If they hope something will not happen, they see it as unlikely to happen. Thus smokers think that they personally will avoid cancer. Promiscious people practice unsafe sex. Teenagers drive recklessly."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory

Anyway, on to my post, a lot of which is a rehash of the thread I had mentioned earlier:

I am truly ashamed that psychedelic drugs are being dragged into the next apocalypse prediction. It's dirtying an already deeply tainted name. If people want psychedelics to become more accepted by mainstream culture, they should avoid contaminating logic with syllogism. There are a huge number of reasons why the 2012 theory is completely absurd.

First of all, there's absolutely no evidence that the Mayans thought 2012 would signify anything important. Second, the talk about alignment with the center of the galaxy is a complete fabrication … it is in no way even remotely true.

I don't see how you are suggesting that the alignment of the sun with the galactic equator is trivial. This is something that started in 1987 and will finish around 2012. Has the world and human consciousness not changed more dramatically during this period than any other time in known history? The rapid advancement of technology, the internet (the Gaian neural network), climate change, social/political/spiritual upheaval, an exponentially increasing population not to mention that a kid with a credit card has easy access to more consciousness expanding agents that were available to every shamanic culture on the planet combined up until only recently... Do I need to continue?

I wasn't suggesting that it was trivial; I was suggesting that it is unambiguously wrong … as in there is not a grain of truth to the statement. What is your source for this alignment, a book about 2012 perhaps? This is not an attack. It is a valid question.

First of all, our Sun is above the galactic equator by a few degrees (many light years) and will be for the foreseeable future. As far as the Earth and Sun aligning with the galactic center, this happens every year. The interesting alignment (with the winter solstice), occurred in 1997, unfortunately not in 2012. There are people that believe that the Mayans set up their calendar to predict this event, but this claim is also baseless, an invention of "wishful thinking". There is no evidence that the Mayans had any knowledge of the precession of equinoxes and they obviously didn't have the technical capabilities to accurately mark the galactic equator or alignment with the center of the galaxy.

"As above, so below" truer words were never spoken and in the age of fractals and the holographic universe model this axiom holds more weight than ever. Time is cyclic, one doesn't need psychedelics to realize the simple logic in this. Day and night are a cycle, summer and winter are larger part of this celestial cycle. Is it not logical that there is also a larger cycle at work, whether you call the 'Platonic Year', 'precession', 'yugas' or the 'Mayan calendar' these are all part of the same 'perrenial philosophy' that most great cultures throughout history have tapped into, just as ours is beginning to do. If the planets motion around the sun has such a profound impact on all life on earth (and our own endocrine secretions) is it not 'just plain, fucking ridiculous' to not at least entertain the idea the suns revolution around the galactic center could also have some similar effect? Please reserve judgment and condemnation until you actual listen to the interview in question and review the information on the subject.

The Earth’s motion around the sun does indeed affect our endocrine systems. But wouldn't that make sense because the seasons are changing and all these changes require adaptations from all life forms in order to persist in the face of them. It is absurd to propose that humans would be significantly affected by movement in the galaxy, because of the simple fact that it does not influence our conditions here on Earth. Our planet is essentially an isolated ecological system. The sun and the moon affect our planet in perceivable ways. Pluto does not, nor do other stars in our galaxy … at least on the timetable were speaking of here.

Edit:

It is well documented throughout the animal kingdom that geomagnetic field changes affect the pineal and metabolism substantially.

Could you present some references for this statement. I have a difficult time believing it would have any effects on the pineal, much less some multifaceted alterations in a complex, tightly regulated biochemical mechanism. The idea that endogenous DMT has a role in near death experiences or that it is released at birth have no backing evidence ... aside from a few hippies that thought of it one time while high.

I do wonder a geomagnetic field reversal would confuse migrating birds though? Here's what I found it geomagnetic fields.

"The rate of reversals in the Earth's magnetic field has varied widely over time. 72 million years ago (Ma), the field reversed 5 times in a million years. In a 4-million-year period centered on 54 Ma, there were 10 reversals ... It had generally been assumed that the frequency of geomagnetic reversals is random, and it was shown in 2006 that the known reversals conform to a Lévy distribution."

"At present, the overall geomagnetic field is becoming weaker at a rate which would, if it continues, cause the dipole field to temporarily collapse by 3000–4000 AD."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

So, a connection I fail to make is: how does a Mayan calender have even a remote association with geomagnetism, when it is not a concept that was understood by the the Mayan people?

Please understand, my goal is not to win an argument here, it's simply to try and help people realize that when you make a hypothesis, you need to fairly asses the evidence from all sides, and avoid jumping to a conclusion, letting syllogism override sound logic.



-Dondante

P.S. I took the time to write a thoughtful reply, please do the same.

 

[swilow]

^The speaker at my brother's graduation last weekend had an interesting message at the end of his speech. He brought up the importance of civility in public discourse. George Orwell, for example, repeatedly said that society has undergone a significant decline in the quality of discourse. Instead of honoring a degree of mutual respect and gaining credibility through sound logical arguments, people seem to resort to sarcasm. I do it myself sometimes, but when people jump to flaming (online especially), rational discussion is basically abandoned. As mentioned, Willow could have been more considerate in his post, but Eschaton, your following post was meaningless mockery, rather than any attempt at rebuttal.

Thanks for your post friend; somethings I need to personally work on come up in arguments, which I've been having with almost everyone I encounter of late. Grr-head=annoying.

But lets all try not be mocking; theres a fine line between having a joke and mockery and I for one don't see it at times. I apologise for that.

I understand Eschatons feeling of intuition, as well as the facts of science which try to avoid intuition and the like. With regards to 2012, its actually become connected with a lot more then psychedelics, but I'm sure the psychedelic "movement" is the most outspoken or 'radical' of the lot.

A prominent feature of tripping, and especially of DMT imo, is the prevelance of what some would call psychotic symptoms after very heavy use; or to others, a deeply mystical and ongoing state. It seems to consist of heavy and prominent deja vu` usually of a beautiful, nostalgic sense, plus euphoria that seems reasonless, yet great and not 'urging'. Some invest a lot in these particualr states; either with great fear or great awe, and that beautiful human capacity of imagination and creativity. I guess we will not know what any Truth is except that here it is.

Or there is was and here it is again. Just a moment or so....behind the mind is where the Truth could be. I just don't want to be afriad of the future, it wastes that moment....

 

[Dondante]

Endogenous Tetrahydroharmine and the like.

THH and other harmala alkaloids are not endogenous compounds.

Also, the effects of increasing MAOI are not simply preventing degradation of DMT. If enough MAOI was present to preserve endogenous levels of DMT from degradation, the accumulation of other substrates of MAO would cause death via hypertensive crisis.

Again, I don't expect that you will abandon your theory because of my one post ... I'm only asking that you be a more objective investigator. Instead of focusing solely on coming up with ways to support your hypothesis, why not step back and look at the other side of the arguement as well?

 

[yaesutom]

I was heavy into the whole 2012 thing for at least a year.

My whole life seemed to be more and more full of "synchronicities" all leading me to this 2012 stuff etc. I still don't know for sure what caused it but the only thing that makes sense is because I was always spun on dexedrine and benzo'ed out. I mean, i was REALLY SURE and fully confident that everything would change in 2012, but now I look back and am kinda embarrassed at how I would talk to everybody about it..

Now that i'm not on amphetamines and my full "logic" has returned to my brain, logically 2012 and all the crazy stuff mostly just doesn't make sense.

But.. the technology singularity that sort of thing does make sense to me.. technology is evolving faster than ever and it looks like its only gonna get faster. 2012 seems a little soon for this though... but 2020-2030 doesn't. Who knows

 

[Eschaton]

What is your source for this alignment, a book about 2012 perhaps? This is not an attack. It is a valid question.

First of all, our Sun is above the galactic equator by a few degrees (many light years) and will be for the foreseeable future. As far as the Earth and Sun aligning with the galactic center, this happens every year. The interesting alignment (with the winter solstice), occurred in 1997, unfortunately not in 2012.

Actually it is a process ending in 2012. Precession cycle ending. Great Year, etc. I make no mention of alignment. Did you actually read the site?

There are people that believe that the Mayans set up their calendar to predict this event, but this claim is also baseless, an invention of "wishful thinking". There is no evidence that the Mayans had any knowledge of the precession of equinoxes and they obviously didn't have the technical capabilities to accurately mark the galactic equator or alignment with the center of the galaxy.

You are completely out of your mind. Sorry, but you're talking out your backside, there is plenty of evidence.

http://www.authenticmaya.com/maya_astronomy.htm

While I don't necessarily care about the whole alignment thing, John Major Jenkins has more than enough evidence. Please read more before making your claims.

http://alignment2012.com/



The Earth’s motion around the sun does indeed affect our endocrine systems. But wouldn't that make sense because the seasons are changing and all these changes require adaptations from all life forms in order to persist in the face of them. It is absurd to propose that humans would be significantly affected by movement in the galaxy, because of the simple fact that it does not influence our conditions here on Earth. Our planet is essentially an isolated ecological system. The sun and the moon affect our planet in perceivable ways. Pluto does not, nor do other stars in our galaxy … at least on the timetable were speaking of here.

Edit:


Could you present some references for this statement. I have a difficult time believing it would have any effects on the pineal, much less some multifaceted alterations in a complex, tightly regulated biochemical mechanism. The idea that endogenous DMT has a role in near death experiences or that it is released at birth have no backing evidence ... aside from a few hippies that thought of it one time while high.

I do wonder a geomagnetic field reversal would confuse migrating birds though? Here's what I found it geomagnetic fields.

"The rate of reversals in the Earth's magnetic field has varied widely over time. 72 million years ago (Ma), the field reversed 5 times in a million years. In a 4-million-year period centered on 54 Ma, there were 10 reversals ... It had generally been assumed that the frequency of geomagnetic reversals is random, and it was shown in 2006 that the known reversals conform to a Lévy distribution."

"At present, the overall geomagnetic field is becoming weaker at a rate which would, if it continues, cause the dipole field to temporarily collapse by 3000–4000 AD."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

So, a connection I fail to make is: how does a Mayan calender have even a remote association with geomagnetism, when it is not a concept that was understood by the the Mayan people?

Please understand, my goal is not to win an argument here, it's simply to try and help people realize that when you make a hypothesis, you need to fairly asses the evidence from all sides, and avoid jumping to a conclusion, letting syllogism override sound logic.



-Dondante

P.S. I took the time to write a thoughtful reply, please do the same.

Well, there is no argument, you simply jumped to your own conclusions. Please read the following links and settle down.

As far as your whole thing about Orwell, I could care less brother, this is the internet, not some in-person affair; its merely a sense of humor you simply don't get.



http://www.heffter.org/review/chapter10.pdf

http://www.scientificexploration.org/jse/articles/pdf/16.1_mcgillion.pdf

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/130/7/754

http://www.metafysiko.org/index.php?module=writeit&action=read&id=30


P.S.

I still lubs you!

THH and other harmala alkaloids are not endogenous compounds.

Also, the effects of increasing MAOI are not simply preventing degradation of DMT. If enough MAOI was present to preserve endogenous levels of DMT from degradation, the accumulation of other substrates of MAO would cause death via hypertensive crisis.

Again, I don't expect that you will abandon your theory because of my one post ... I'm only asking that you be a more objective investigator. Instead of focusing solely on coming up with ways to support your hypothesis, why not step back and look at the other side of the arguement as well?

Hey man, I aim to be pseudo-scientific.

They can't think outside the box.

I'm talking enzymes and the like, I was merely being facetious.

I appreciate your prodding, however, I enjoy a good poke.

 

[Xorkoth]

Well, there is no argument, you simply jumped to your own conclusions. Please read the following links and settle down.

As far as your whole thing about Orwell, I could care less brother, this is the internet, not some in-person affair; its merely a sense of humor you simply don't get.

...

Hey man, I aim to be pseudo-scientific.

I'm talking enzymes and the like, I was merely being facetious.

I'd like to point out that Dondate was being calm... quite calm and rational. You shouldn't feel like people need to calm down just because they don't agree with you.

I'd also like to point out that you are just jumping to your own conclusions at least as much as Dondante or anyone else is. The fact is, if you're aiming to be pseudo-scientific, a lot of people will disagree with you, and for good reason. You may be right, but you can't possibly expect anyone to agree with you just because you say so, unless you have some hard evidence to back it up. Why would you expect that we would all agree with you just because you say so and because you found a few links on the Internet that you agree with? It doesn't make them right.

Finally, you keep saying this requires a sense of humor, but what you're doing is stating an opinion and then telling people they need a sense of humor when they disagree. That doesn't really even make sense. People are going to disagree... it has nothing to do with a sense of humor. And what do you mean you were being facetious when you talked about enzymes? You stated a theory about endogenous DMT and MAOIs and enzymes, and your theory was responded to... and now that it has been, you're downplaying it as if you were saying it to mean something else, or something. It doesn't add up.

Anyway, don't think I'm attacking you... we like to have all kinds of opinions here and we welcome yours as well. It's called discussion.

 

[Eschaton]

I don't imply needing a sense of humor for my "ideas"

Just have one for my replies.

 

[IGNVS]

yo this threads gone to shit wher all the good posts at

mods-- we like our dmt clean, why would we want any diferent for the dmt thread?