The Big and Dandy DMT thread - Next Phase

[Youkai]

I can never tell any difference between open eyes and shut tbh. Once your there, you ARE there. So, if you don't break through with eyes open your not breaking through IMO.

Xorkoth, you may possibly have a tolerance from use of other psychs, which is unlikely. 70mgs should get you to break through - this may sound like a shit sugggestion, but a hypnotic drug can help, as you don't have time to break the spell with your thoughts. Either way, it seems that once you've broken through, you continue doing so. Its like playing a trick on yourself. Mix in some 5-MEO-DMT if you can and then you will probably be forced to breakthrough.

I truly advocate not smoking pure crystal DMT, but dmt melted onto a carrier. I personally am not used to inhaling pure chemicals, but I'm used to inhaling huge amounts of herbs/weed/etc so by melting onto a carrier plant really helps. Eben just crumbling up the DMT and mixing it amongst a simple, inactive plant like mint or nympahea spp (caerulea has a cleaner, cooler smoke to me).

I never toke my DMT, but gently apply flame to its surrounding herbal moat of protection, and hope that the ppyrolosysis of the pant will also immolate the DMT- and I use a bong, fill the chamber with smoke and hink it down. Either way, it has to be (for me) one massive hit, no matter what amount. The times I have distinctly struggled to fulfill this task has been approaching and going beyond 100mgs- with plant to, the cone would be prolly eqiv to 150mg material, which makes a lot of fucking smoke. Fortunately, years of toruturing myself with bucket bongs, normal bongs, massive cone-pieces, smoking from absolute crud, has hardeden up my couding reflex, meaning I hardly ever cough or feel like I might- that is a huge impediment to breaking through, the faint worry that you are going to simply splurt the smoke violently out may hold one back.

But yeah, have a mediatate, and try breaking through with a less active mind, as would have been indueced with the LSA;s. Try it as soon as you wake up, before/during sunrise. Magical time, easier to break through due to decreasing magnetic fighting between moon adn sun. Or something.

Xorkoth, I can't remember; have you smoked much salvia? The same "tricks" kind of apply, though it is easier to break through on salvia, or more clearly defined. I think, in some way, that having experience with salvia, in its utter craziness and ability to obliterate reality, makes the DMT trip seem ALMOST mild in comparison, and urges less reistance. Either way, those two drugs and 5-Meo-DMT seem to be in a different category to most psychedelics you may be familiar with; intesne, metabolized to the inactive very quickly, completely freaky. I think for sheer madness, salvia winds hands down; a bit of experience with that can prepare you a bit for what DMT feels like.

Dude, I smoke copious amounts of DMT, I know when a break through. and it doesnt happen with eyes open. Maybe its you who hasnt truely broke through. Eyes open and you are too grounded in material visuals to go to the land of DMT (IME). There is a big difference in the flash with eyes open and eyes closed. with eyes open teh world around you changes in perception, with eyes closed you are taken away to another pardigm of existance. when I break through, Im told not to open my eyes.

others in my group who experience similer experiences as me all conclude that eyes must be clsoed to truely break through. with eyes open, your jsut too grounded in material visuals, its not the same, not the slightest.

 

[Youkai]

oh, and if you smoke DMT on a carrior there is no way you are going to get 60+mg all down in a fast enough time to truely get the correct flash. the carrior adds to much smoke to get it all in within the correct time to recieve a flash compairable to the amount you intended to smoke.

 

[nbsp]

and it doesnt happen with eyes open.

sorry buddy, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that declaration. I've broken through with eyes wide open and had complete fantasy visuals superimposed over my entire reality. Visuals of colors and shapes that could not logically exist...visuals so profound they became synaesthesiac living beings communicating with me through telepathy, inviting me to join them in rituals and celebrations so elaborate they simply could not be performed by a corporeal entity. I prefer the eyes open. With eyes closed my visions are less pronounced, less capable of being focused on. Maybe it's just a personal preference. But there is definitely a distinction to me.

 

[Youkai]

sorry buddy, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with that declaration. I've broken through with eyes wide open and had complete fantasy visuals superimposed over my entire reality. Visuals of colors and shapes that could not logically exist...visuals so profound they became synaesthesiac living beings communicating with me through telepathy, inviting me to join them in rituals and celebrations so elaborate they simply could not be performed by a corporeal entity. I prefer the eyes open. With eyes closed my visions are less pronounced, less capable of being focused on. Maybe it's just a personal preference. But there is definitely a distinction to me.

how can you say I dont break through with eyes closed? Im stating that I CANT BREAK THROUGH WITH EYES OPEN. end of story, you may be able to, I cant, its an entirely different ball game dose for dose with eyes closed. Iv wated many of trips keeping my eyes open, and I just dont get with them like that. I still get effects, and still get crazy unearthly visual. But it's not anywhere close to what happends with my eyes closed.

 

[nbsp]

how can you say I dont break through with eyes closed? Im stating that I CANT BREAK THROUGH WITH EYES OPEN. end of story, you may be able to, I cant, its an entirely different ball game dose for dose with eyes closed. Iv wated many of trips keeping my eyes open, and I just dont get with them like that. I still get effects, and still get crazy unearthly visual. But it's not anywhere close to what happends with my eyes closed.

lol, yeah, don't misunderstand me guy. What is true for you is true for you; we don't even know each other. I just got the impression you were trying to convey a breakthrough is impossible with open eyes, and pass it off as unconditional advice. Fact is, I break through easier with open eyes. I see my visuals more clearly and I zone out into them until my entire reality and existence is completely transformed. So I guess it really is just different for everybody. Oh well.

cheers.

 

[swilow]

Dude, I smoke copious amounts of DMT, I know when a break through. and it doesnt happen with eyes open.

Hey yeah now I know your aDMT man of greatest tastes indeed! It was more a general statement.... as to using a carrier, what I'm saying is that I will smoke in one rip a bong of 100-150mgs of DMT w/carrier- I have done it many times. That way, the entire amount of DMT enters my brain via lungs simulataneously. You've aroused my psychedelic ego! Baah, now I'm gonna go do something stupid to brag about!!!!!

But I still do believe that when you've smoked enough, it doesn't matter if your eyes are open or closed, in fact I can never really tell. Different strokes for different folks for different tokes la la.....

Has anyone noticed the way DMT reaaranges your body-perception? I always feel like I have extra arms, or that my head is attached the wrong way, or that I'm bending horizontally from the waist tot he left or right, this usually ocurrs on a low dosde or when the smackdown is smacking in. Just a thought.

I also think DMT heavily effects sterescopic vision- if I look in the mirror I get the impression that all I am seeing is a symetrical version of my face, either my left or right side superimposed on the other....strangely interesting.

 

[Youkai]

Iv been in blasts where everything feels REALY ahrd and flat. a weird tactile sensation where its actualy hard to ever pick up a small spoon to load up more.

 

[nbsp]

I was taking small rips one after the other on T-7 the other day....got to the point where I couldn't even tell if I was inhaling any more with each hit, couldn't even figure out what it was I was doing, but I still wasn't quite 'there.' Suddenly I move the pipe away from my face and I'm in a totally different room than my own. I'm conscious of every single atom in the room and each one is relaying electrical impulses to and from my brain. Suddenly, I can see them...all of them...and they're all blasting me with infinitely thin rays of light, infinitely thin and infintely intersected, blasting through every conceivable point on my entire body and desintegrating me. I actually felt it, physically. It was not bad, it was not painful, but it might've been the weirdest sensation I ever experienced on DMT. Shit is fuckin crazy man.

 

[Chronik Fatigue]

I always feel like I have extra arms, or that my head is attached the wrong way

Yah, six arms and eight eyes. I get the same effect from psilocybin. A very 'hindu' feel to it I reckon.

 

[swilow]

^Yeah, kinda ganesha like. I have seen my doggie strutting about with three great heads once upon a time.

 

[Jabberwocky]

hey NBSP, that was the same for me on t7 the other day! I just kept taking hit after hit of DMT, and I couldn't really tell anymore;

I also had a bowl of marijuana, and I wa sjust sucking down bowl after bowl - I couldn't tell when I was breathing out air and when it was smoke - everything was just so integrated -

I could feel the DMT vapor coming out of me as if it was part of myself!

 

[freespiritmind]

^Yeah, kinda ganesha like. I have seen my doggie strutting about with three great heads once upon a time.

so once I thought I had shiva dancing around me, but after looking at pictures I realized the god (which never showed me about it's torso) was probably ganesha! Once my friend told me I looked like her too...we were sitting in his backyard and took him the furthest he had ever gone...

As for DMT rearranging your body...I don't quite get that, but I do get these weird movements you can pick up on that are totally in coordination with the trip. It might HAVE to be a breakthrough for this to work (always 5+ hits at a concert, etc...), but I've had other people speak to me about it too. You have to get to the point where you are seeing DMT vision, but then if you allow yourself to fall into the flow you begin to dance like ganesha....once I came out of a trance and someone was staring directly at me with their jaw dropped...I wonder what I looked like....it's like liquid dancing but SO much more fluid and geometric...like you could start making VERY fluid geometry with your body, then midway through you do the 'dmt switch' thing that your vision does and your body is on another spiraling path....

...on another note, supposedly shamans have been using certain 'gestures' to help tame the intensity of visions for thousands of years, and I tend to think this is a similar-type phenomenon. Does no one else experience this awesomeness (truly expanded, heaven-on-earth, peak moment translated through your body)?

 

[freespiritmind]

hey NBSP, that was the same for me on t7 the other day! I just kept taking hit after hit of DMT, and I couldn't really tell anymore;

I also had a bowl of marijuana, and I wa sjust sucking down bowl after bowl - I couldn't tell when I was breathing out air and when it was smoke - everything was just so integrated -

I could feel the DMT vapor coming out of me as if it was part of myself!

I hear that! Love it! That's part of the beauty...it's so integrated that you sometimes can really start to come up and not even notice due to working the pipe. When I say 'clean' to describe the experience I really mean 'integrated' thanks

 

[PippUK]

Abortive Ayahuasca Analogue and some reminiscing.

Tried an Ayahuasca type journey today, but missed the target. Had some nice memories from my first Aya trip, which I wrote up. See my journal if you're interested. + http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/journal.php?do=showjournal&j=1402

I was a little disappointed , although perhaps slightly relieved at the same time. Next time I will apply lessons learned for, hopefully, a better result. Still, it was not a complete waste of time, as I rekindled memories of my first journey, which I wrote up.
All the best - PippUK

 

[Kul69]

how long does it take to extract DMT

I have done it in a few hours and had great results. This was probably like my third/fourth extraction and I used the marsofold technique.

 

[swilow]

...on another note, supposedly shamans have been using certain 'gestures' to help tame the intensity of visions for thousands of years, and I tend to think this is a similar-type phenomenon. Does no one else experience this awesomeness (truly expanded, heaven-on-earth, peak moment translated through your body)?

I think you refer to the so-called "Magic Passes" of shamanism. I thought the hand gestures/movements were more about, not taming the trip, but girecting it a bit more. Good old Castaneda wrote a book of the exact same name..... Anyway, I do find that I feel almost double jointed on DMT, and often feel the urge to "beam" light down my arms, out my splayed fingers etcera. DMT seems to merge the physical and spirtual in a blurry miasma of yesness.

 

[psood0nym]

DMT really distorts proprioception, or the perception of the positions of your body parts (I've felt my legs a few feet behind me for instance). I think the reason movements feel so fluid is because, even if you are actually moving clunkily, the position, speed, and balance of your limbs is smeared out over perceptual space, making discerning how you're moving ambiguous, and thus the leeway for ascribing ideal judgments to performance becomes that much greater. (Look at LSD-addled hippy dances during the 60's. They probably thought all that twirling and stumbling was pretty graceful). I guess a sober observer would be needed to know for sure.

The multi-armed phenomena might be a form of proprioceptive "trail". Like visual trails, the proprioceptive "image" of your limbs at regular intervals in time would be held in sensory memory for longer than usual, thereby creating the sense of multiple limbs. Try waving your arms up and down next time and see if the effect is intensified. Might be fun!

Regarding the gestures, I can certainly imagine them helping guide a trip. The more difficult a subject is for us to talk about or describe, the more we gesticulate. Though I don't recall the precise mechanism, there are neurophysiological reasons that these hand movements help to coral all the verbal information and prevent it from spilling out of our control. I'm sure parts of the same phenomena are at work in directing a trip with gestures or dance.

 

[Jabberwocky]

My last mushroom trip I broke into a complex series of mudras - I did not know what I was doing, but I felt like I was passing through some sort of barrier that I did not know I could cross -

 

[psood0nym]

^Did the movements just kind of flow after you initiated them or did they happen on their own, initiating themselves while you were at rest? I've noticed that on ayahuasca I can start tapping my foot an then completely ignore it. It will continue all by itself until I try to make it stop.

My most recent investigations into automatic movements have me reviewing alien hand syndrome. In brief, when the dominant left prefrontal cortex is dissociated from the motor cortex by damage, people afflicted with the syndrome partially or fully lose their ability to voluntarily control the non-dominant hand. With just right hemisphere parietal damage the left hand’s alien movements are usually pretty simple (grasping and retracting), however damage at or near the corpus collosum sometimes results in pretty radical effects: Like the non-dominant hand pushing a lover away while the person consciously intends to embrace, or attempts at public masturbation where the healthy hand must be used to restrain the horny "alien hand"! Presumably this more complex behavior is the result of the resources of the entire right hemisphere being brought to bear on the alien hand movements.

I addition to the perseveration of simple foot tapping, I've experienced elaborate, sometimes symbolic involuntary movements on DMT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-ho-DMT, and briefly on 2C-E. In all the cases except with an overdose of IM DMT (mixed with proportionally much less affective drugs) I've been able to disengage them. But they engaged themselves from a resting state, just as alien hand movements do. However there is no lateral discrimination; my entire body moves.

I wonder if psychedelic drugs could affect a transverse dissociation between lower and higher sections of the brain such that a person's body could move fully on its own but without voluntary conscious engagement, like a waking sleep walk. The nature of such movements would be dictated by non-conscious elements in the brain, and fascinating information could come from both their observation and the introspective reports of the experiencers. One potential clue to what’s happening is that the past two times it's happened have been preceded by a rapid upsurge in psychedelic effects and a feeling that my head and limbs are extremely heavy, so that I have to basically bow while I walk. As soon as I lay down it starts.

 

[nbsp]

attempts at public masturbation where the healthy hand must be used to restrain the horny "alien hand"!

I think it'd be pretty cool if my alien hand decided to jerk me off, personally.

this is very fascinating subject matter you're covering, btw. I'm not really in the mindstate to post a calculative and thoughtful response, but I'm legitimately interested in what you're talking about; it's great. Maybe after I finish my work and drink a goddamn coffee I'll come back to this and give it a second look.