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The Big and Dandy AMT Thread - 2nd incarnation

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^ I agree, about the euphoria and I haven't gone above 40mg. The next time I take it will definitely be rectally because for me the come up is always quite shitty. In my experience, having nothing in my stomach significantly reduces the GI nastiness.

The Erowid section on AMT related deaths has me a bit confused though. It says "Before February 2003, Erowid had received a handful of unverifiable reports of hospitalization after high-dose (over 60mg oral) AMT ingestion".

It seems to imply to me that 60mg is a high dose that is potentially risky. My impression is that ~60mg is a full dose, maybe equivalent to ~120-150mg MDMA, but not very risky. I'm a bit hesitant to use 40mg rectally (which is probably a riskier method of administration vs. oral), when Erowid suggests that over 60mg oral could be problematic.
 
The come-up rectally is still annoying, but it's better and most importantly, faster. The best part about rectal dosing with AMT is that the body load is not there once you come up... oral dosing can sometimes give me a lingering bodyload for the whole trip. And the nausea and gastric distress is not there either (aside from some discomfort/burning on initial application).

My most frequent dose was probably 60mg, although I was using it often then. I wouldn't recommend 60mg until you've worked up to it, but I'd hardly consider it dangerous.

I have found rectal administration to be about the same potency as oral administration, curiously.

I tend to prefer taking most substances rectally, but with AMT this is even more so because it is so much smoother and gentler.

Finally, I always converted it to the HCl salt before rectal administration. I have heard it works as the freebase as well, and it should, but I find it to absorb faster and smoother as the HCl.
 
^ is there a chance that you may have developed a tolerance from oral dosing by the time you tried rectal so that that although it was perceived as the same potency it was actually stronger? Do you remember reading reports from others that agree with your oral potency=rectal potency observations?

Maybe I'll start with 30mg rectal and work up from there. I'm relocating at the end of the month where I won't be able to trip as much so I'd like to squeeze a few more in. :)

Another quick question. I find an empty stomach helps the nasuea with most chems, with rectal does it make a difference in your experience?
 
I think F&B agrees that rectal admin is about the same in potency, if I recall correctly. I did not have any tolerance when I began using it rectally. It may add a tiny bit of potency I suppose, so you should dose a little lower for the first time at least. In my experience though it mostly just changes the nature of the feel of the trip... it comes on faster so it reaches peak plasma levels more quickly I would imagine. Overall I have never noticed a significant difference in strength of effects, but the effect is different, in a way more intense but in a way less intense also because the body load isn't there.
 
AMT & anit-nausea medication

i am very excited to try out some AMT i've acquired, but the reports of nausea and vomitting in some users has me a bit wary.

Would taking some anti-nausea medication beforehand be a good idea? What brand would be good, and when should it be taken? Or would there be something else worth taking that might work better? (besides weed, which will be consumed throughout)
 
try a small dose first, like 10-20 mg see how you react. i dont find the nausea that bad tbh, even at doses like 40mg .. everyone reacts differently
 
yeah, it seems that even though alot of the trip reports for amt seem to mention nausea or stomach issues, most of the time it doesn't seem to impact the experience in a negative way, as most people still have positive things to say about it.

I usually don't have many stomach issues on phens like 2c-i or 2c-b, so i'm hoping that will carry over for amt...

But has anybody had any experience with taking a bit of anti-nausea medication beforehand? I would rather be safe than sorry....
 
Merged in a question about anti-ansuea medication and AMT.

I've never taken anything with anti-nausea properties with AMT. Taking it in a non-oral method will reduce nausea, especially rectally. I would imagine that it would help though. In any case, I've never had the nausea last beyond the come-up (maybe around 2 hours at most).
 
Taking it in a non-oral method will reduce nausea, especially rectally
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Anything that avoids it sitting in the stomach is suitable. 5-hydroxy AMT is an agonist for 5HT3 receptors (in the stomach, upper GI tract), so avoiding any direct interaction between them & AMT will work.

Don't go with phenothiazine based anti-nausea medications as they will severely blunt the effects of AMT and probably not make it worthwhile. The only ones I'd recommend (if you can obtain them - they're horribly expensive drugs according to the BNF) are 5HT3 antagonists like ondansetron and other members of that family.

Personally, I'd say 'shove it up yer arse', but in the best possible taste! =D
 
Safe to Mix AMT and SSRIs? (Effexor)

Would it be safe for someone to take an oral dose of AMT while they are on a daily dose of 150mg Effexor CR (SSRI antidepressant)?
My main concern is possible risk of serotonin syndrome, my second concern is that an SSRI might block the supposed "MDMA-like" effects of AMT.

If it is not safe to mix the two, or if it will be a waste of AMT, then how long should a person wait to take the dose of AMT after taking their last dose of effexor? (I'm assuming 2 weeks after cessation of using effexor)

Im aware that AMT experiences vary greatly between individuals, and I am diagnosed with Panic Disorder. However, psychadelics do not usually bring upon panic attacks for me (weird huh). But anyways, if there were to be a "bad trip", I am prescribed 1mg clonazepam for panic attacks, which I could take in case of a bad trip. Would clonazepam be effective in calming someone down who is having a bad trip on AMT?
 
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Don't do it. Don't even think about it.

First, effexor is an SNRI, not an SSRI. It has serotonin and norepinephrine effects, but that isn't the point here.

AMT has MAOI activity. That means it is dangerous to mix with many drugs including SSRI's, SNRI's, MDMA, etc. That is because MAO is the enzyme that metabolizes neurotransmitters. With an SSRI/SNRI/Tricyclic/etc, you are inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin, norepinephrine, etc... all of which are degraded by MAO. If you inhibit both the reuptake and the degradation of neurotransmitters, it can lead to toxic effects, including but not limited to serotonin syndrome, tachnicardia, destroying of one's heart valves, etc.

Most antidepressants are not good to mix with psychedelics at all. You definitely need to get off of them before doing most drugs. However, this isn't a recommended route. First, it can be really difficult getting off of effexor--the withdrawls are terrible and can lead to convulsions/seizures/all sorts of bad things. Also, you probably should be careful with drugs if you have a history of depression as they could potentially make it worse.
 
I thought AMT has only a very small MAOI activity?
And effexor has a very short half-life (5 hours), and I haven't been on it long enough to get serious withdrawal symptoms.
So would skipping tonights dose and tomorrow morning's dose of effexor and then taking AMT be okay?
If not, how long should I wait before dosing AMT?

EDIT: Im guessing that tomorrow if I take a dose of AMT I will be okay. But then again I could be making a horrible mistake that I didnt think about. I think I will be fine because:
1. AMT has small MAOI activity, and mixing an MAOI with an SSRI/SNRI doesnt necessarily always lead to serotonin syndrome.
2. By skipping two doses of effexor (with the 5 hour half life that effexor has), I will have gone 24 hours without a dose of 75mg of effexor. Thats essentially 5 half-lives that the 75mg dose has gone through. Which according to my calculations would mean that roughly only about 2.3mg of effexor is still in my blood?
3. Serotonin syndrome has a low mortality rate, and treatment for it is basically only symptomatic. (Meaning they just give you some benzodiazepines at the hospital until you are no longer suffering from serotonin syndrome). I have benzodiazepines which I am planning on taking at the peak of the trip anyways to make the come-down better. And the symptoms of serotonin syndrome are pretty easy to point out.
 
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Have you ever tried skipping that many Effexor doses before? Unless you have, and did not experience withdrawal symptoms, I would not skip your daily doses, and then take AMT.

Also, I think it's kind of pointless to take benzodiazepines at the peak of the trip, unless you are experiencing negative somatic side effects, because they tend to cloud and blunt the psychedelic experience.
 
5-HT2 said:
Have you ever tried skipping that many Effexor doses before? Unless you have, and did not experience withdrawal symptoms, I would not skip your daily doses, and then take AMT.

Also, I think it's kind of pointless to take benzodiazepines at the peak of the trip, unless you are experiencing negative somatic side effects, because they tend to cloud and blunt the psychedelic experience.
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Yes, I am very unscheduled when it comes to taking my effexor, and have gone as much as 2 days without taking it and felt perfectly fine.

And I've heard that the comedown of AMT is particularily rough, so I'm going to keep plenty of benzos handy for when I start to feel the negative strung-out effects of the drug after the peak. Not necessarily as I'm peaking.

I just know that people often get drawn into the "O0o0o0o0o SHINEY!!!" aspect of research chemicals, especially ones as interesting as AMT, and then end up getting in way over their head. I'm mostly making sure that's not what I'm doing.
The 24+ hour long trip of AMT would be a pretty long time to suffer if I was making some tragic mistake, so I feel I should take every precaution necessary to avoid this. Especially, getting second opinions from the people on bluelight.

Thanks for the responses.

PS, i have no history of depression. Just panic disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder (hence why I am taking effexor). But what I have found is that psychadelics and stimulants in particular actually reduce my panic disorder and OCD

PPS this thread seemed to answer some questions. http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=247265
Mostly there were people in that thread who read the word "MAOI" and began spazzing out, but then most of the people who were saying "Its okay to mix AMT and an SSRI" used logic and stated what they said calmly.
The end result: He tried the combination and is not only alive and well, but seemed to enjoy the experience.
 
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^As 5HT2 said, don't skip your dose. Withdrawing from such a drug and then taking something that works heavily on the same neuro-pathways is a bad idea. Not as bad as taking AMT with an SSRI/SNRI. I wouldn't do it.
 
Also, occasionally do mix MAOIs with Psychadelics, (see Ayuahasca), however this is not for the novice nor is to be taken lightly. Both drugs must be dosed properly or else you can actually die. MAOIs are decently dangerous by themselves, due to all the interactions they have with drugs but also benign foods like blue cheese. Serotonin syndrome isn't the only thing that can happen (and is probably the least of your problems)--you can actually stop your heart and get permanent heart damage, in addition to a whole bunch of other things that can happen when you inhibit all of the ways a cell has to inactivate it's neurotransmitters.

You will see people that do this stuff, but you have to know what you are doing. Since this is harm reduction, I am going to say don't do it. I don't want to advocate such behaviors to novices. I assume that you are a novice, as you probably wouldn't be asking questions on a message board for advice if you weren't--you would already know what you are doing. (I am not saying this is a bad thing--but you should definitely tread lightly when dealing with dangerous combinations that can go badly quickly).

However, the question you have to ask yourself is whether the risk justifies the possible payoff. Yes, this is a high risk behavior. Yes, you may survive unscathed, but you could also end up having life threatening problems. Is your life worth one trip? I can't answer this for you. But if you do end up doing it--please have a sober sitter so that if anything goes wrong it can be dealt with properly.
 
^Ayahuasca is not likely to cause death if the right precautions are taken. Obviously dietary restrictions should be followed, but dosages of both DMT and the harmala alkaloids are pretty well known and widely documented.

Taking AMT when on a SNRI for medicinal reasons is different to intenionally inhibiting an enzyme to activate a substance. The risk that is most concering with this combo is seratonin syndrome, due to the increased levels of seratonin already in the brain.
 
SpunkySkunk347 said:
And I've heard that the comedown of AMT is particularily rough, so I'm going to keep plenty of benzos handy for when I start to feel the negative strung-out effects of the drug after the peak. Not necessarily as I'm peaking.
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To me, AMT has virtually no comedown whatsoever. The worst part of the trip is the come up. To me it always feels like it very, very gradually fades out in a calm, peaceful manner and eventually is just gone. I've never had a crash from it in the slightest unless I was using it multiple days in a row.

The 24+ hour long trip of AMT would be a pretty long time to suffer if I was making some tragic mistake, so I feel I should take every precaution necessary to avoid this. Especially, getting second opinions from the people on bluelight.
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Yes, very true. I think pretty much all of the evidence would suggest that mixing psychiatric medications and AMT is a bad idea. Just because someone did it and was fine doesn't mean you would be fine. Some people have mixed DXM and MDMA and been fine. But some have most certainly not been fine. It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me, unfortunately.
 
Merged in a question about mixing AMT with SSRIs/SNRIs.
 
Heys guys, took the AMT today and am perfectly fine.
Took it at 8:15, and didnt really notice effect until about 10:00.
It felt great, almost like MDMA but a bit different, a lot more mental than physical. Then at about noon I felt like shit (it felt like I was on the comedown of speed), took some klonopin, smoked some grass, now I am feeling just fine, chilled out and relaxed.

Ill write a report on it later, for a while it got pretty intense. Your thoughts cease to be in a single "train" of thought and instead are "blobs" of concepts that come at you incredibly fast.
Slight visual distortions, but the experience was really mental.
No serotonin syndrome, and my heart rate was just fine.

Now its 3:00pm. I ate some (actually a whole shitload of) food cuz I had the munchies, and I think in a few minutes im gonna hit the sack and sleep for a good 4 hours.

Ill write a report later.
Peace.

PS I didnt know the excact dose, it was probably around 30-50mg from what I've read about other people taking it.
 
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