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The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread

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My first ingestion was orally also in a gelcap, I had eaten a wendy's burger about an hour prior to ingestion. I definitely did not notice anything within 20 mins though, at t+30 I wasn't sure, it wasn't until about t+45 that I knew I was comming up, approaching a ++ in t+ 2hours.
 
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It would be probable that different people can have dramatically different reactions to the same chemical, but when different people can describe very similar experiences of 2 dramatically different natures, it leads me to believe that maybe the different people are actually ingesting 2 different compounds. Either that, or the type of salt (or lack thereof) causes a dramatic change in experience.

What do you guys think about that?
 
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My trip definitely was not too intense, and the comeup even after I noticed it was gentle so I suppose it's possible that I may have just not noticed it, perhaps when I experiment with a higher dose range I'll have a more definite time-span to mark my symptoms. I have noticed though that often chemicals take slightly longer to affect me than they do with my friends, especially with mushrooms everyone who is with me usually begins tripping a good 10-15 mins before me on the same dose, perhaps that has something to do with it?
 
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Anyone got any data on the solubility of this stuff in water/ethanol? I don't trust my cheap ass scales and the powder I get is so sticky it's a pain to work with. I was wondering if I could put it in vodka, 2mg/drop or something like that. I could do 1mg/ml as I have done in the past but it's a pain in the ass having to carry a big bottle around with you. Would it last? I have the fumarate.
 
keep in mind a "drop" is not a stable unit of measurement, and can vary. I remember seeing someone on here post that a drop is has a variance of .1 and .2ml or something of that sort, where you could potentially double or halve your dose without a more basic measurement. statistically if you figured it all out and did it right you'd probably be fine but in the name of harm reduction measure it out more definitely.
 
6 friends and I used this compound New Year’s Eve afternoon. I separated 25mg oral doses into 17mg and 8mg pills and told everyone, all familiar with mushrooms, to use the 17mg pill first and the 8mg pill later if they wanted to. Not one person used the extra 8mg pill and all found 17mg to be a fairly strong experience. I elected to use just 8mg IM, for me a low dose, because I had my cage rattled by this compound when I used it with syrian rue (report forthcoming) and also because I was going out later. Those who dissolved the compound in juice beforehand were all tripping within 10 minutes. However, the two that took their doses encapsulated did not feel effects until around the 40-minute mark. I too personally feel the effects very quickly (within 5 minutes) when I dose by the former route; I have never encapsulated it. It makes me wonder if some of the reports of 4-AcO-DMT requiring more time than mushrooms to come on were due to encapsulation (I don’t recall it being mentioned either way in this thread). Our experience has been that it comes on even faster than mushrooms, but we are of the opinion that it could be made to mimic the mushroom onset profile by drinking the solution over about 20 minutes. One might expect 4-AcO-DMT’s faster onset due to the lack of an inert surrounding medium (mushroom flesh) and the fact that both 4-AcO-DMT and psilocybin require conversion to psilocin by enzymes (granted some pure psilocin exists in mushrooms for more rapid effects without conversion, and that concentrations/effectiveness of deacetylase and dephosphorylase could differ too).

Interestingly, an IV report here indicates that 4-AcO has its own effects, despite being referred to as a prodrug in some places, or conversely that quite a concentration of deacetylase enzymes must work VERY rapidly in the blood to convert the compound to psilocin in order to account for the typical IV onset time (if it were slower than expected I imagine that would have been mentioned by yoyoman). Feel free to critique this argument though because I’m no expert in pharmacology. In my experience, disregarding the onset time and only the onset time, the qualitative variance between 4-AcO and mushrooms is about the same as between different batches of mushrooms, making the two qualitatively indistinguishable (even despite lack of nor/baeocystin, whose isolated effects are largely unknown to me except for a brief mention that baeocystin is active at 10mg and may contribute to nausea).
 
I'm looking forward to the syrian rue report.

BTW, does anyone know how much cross-tolerance there is between 4-AcO-DMT and phenethylamines?

Last night I took 1.5 MDA pills around 5:45 and then 15mg of 2C-I around 10:30. I rarely ever use MDMA or MDA, my last time was New Year's eve last year and my previous time before that was about 5 years ago so its hard for me to guess how much or exactly what was in the pills. I was told it was MDA, but I can't say for sure (definately some MDxx, perhaps mixed with something else). I do know that although the experience was great, it did seem weak compared to what I remember so I don't think the pills were the strongest. After about 2 hours I had peaked was starting to come down and I didn't have any visuals, I had MDA (sold as ecstasy) once in high school and it was extremely intense, long lasting and I had some incredible visuals, much different than this.

The 2C-I afterwards was pretty bland and boring, I don't know if it helped the comedown or made it worse. I was thinking of taking 4-AcO-DMT as a 'booster' but decided on the 2C-I as its usually fairly mellow and my experience with 4-AcO-DMT is quite limited.

Anyway, if I were to talk 4-AcO-DMT today, would it have much effect or just be a waste? I was thinking around 10-15mg. Also if it did work, is it more likely to be a negative experience because my brain could be depleted of 'feel good' neurotransmitters from the MDxx? I feel pretty good today, no depression or 'cracked out' feeling and have taken 5-HTP, vitamin C, B-complex and piracetam as a 'post-load' to help myself recover.
 
What are you looking for from the experience? It will most likely be much less profound due to physical and psychological tolerance. Yes, there will of course be tolerance, as MDA, 2CI, and 4-AcO-DMT act on the same HT receptors (albeit in a mix of antagonism and agonism).

Some people report good effects from 'dovetailing' drug experiences into one another. Personally I would steer clear of it as it does not sound too terribly healthy physically, mentally, or emotionally. I prefer 30-45 days between psychedelic sessions (this is what has served me best over 7 years).
 
Thanks for the quick replies. You both made good points. I really have a high regard for the potential of 4-AcO-DMT and it would be better to use with no tolerance rather than be disappointed.

This was my first time 'dovetailing' and I wasn't all that impressed. The only reason I did was because I expected the MDA last longer and to be almost completely down so early on New Years eve was a bit of a disappointment.

I had also read very good things about 'dovetailing' 2C-B and MDMA and I thought 2C-I would be a close substitute. I also had 2C-T-2, but I had heard that it has some MAOI effect similar to 2C-T-7 and didn't want to take any risks with MDMA/5-HTP/MAOI interactions. I thought it would be better to go with the 2C-I instead of just popping another MDx pill as I know that would likely be much harder on my brain and body and a waste of a pill.

If I do really feel the need to trip, I will likely use something I have plenty of to 'waste' and that I don't expect anything profound from.
 
psood0nym said:
In my experience, disregarding the onset time and only the onset time, the qualitative variance between 4-AcO and mushrooms is about the same as between different batches of mushrooms, making the two qualitatively indistinguishable
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Of course we are all different... but I'd like to mention that for me, the nature of 4-AcO-DMT is quite a bit different from mushrooms/psilocin. Of course there are some definite similarities, but I find the headspace to be quite a bit different, the body high to feel much friendlier, and most notably, I've found 4-AcO-DMT to produce absolutely no anxiety (in me at least, keeping in mind I don't feel anxiety much from psychedelics these days). Mushrooms have always been the one substance that produces the most anxiety in me, especially during the comeup, but 4-AcO-DMT has not produced any in three trials except one time that I was trapped in the void as the universal consciousness, and even that was blunted from what it has been on other substances in the same approximate situation. It produced no anxiety at any time during the comeup for me.

Overall, I find 4-AcO-DMT more similar to DMT than to mushrooms, although it is definitely unique. But of course YMMV.
 
Trogdor said:
My conclusion is that this compound is not quite as deep as I'd like at the dosages I've tried
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Try turning it into 4-ho-dmt using xOH (koh works best)
 
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An update. I had my third trial with this compound yesterday. This time at 11 mg, previously it had been around 8mg or less. I didn't have an accurate measurement before so I purposely dosed on the low-side.

The come-up was very gentle and smooth, after around 30 minutes it was starting to kick it and I went to lay down. With my eyes closed I went into a nice trance and went through many past memories, feelings, ideas etc. There were also some digital/glitchy audio type effects which were quite interesting. After exactly an hour of this 'reverie' I woke up and decided to move around etc. During the next hour or so I gradually descended and at t+3:00 I was pretty close to baseline. Extremely smooth the whole time.

If the duration remains the same for me even at higher doses that would be great as the ability to have complete trips of this quality in 3 hours would really be amazing. For me, I believe at 15mg or above it would be highly visual and at 25mg+ fully 'interdimensional' in an ayahuasca sort of way.

Some other things I noticed were that at times my breathing/body was much more relaxed than it normally is. With the slightest effort, I was able to become extremely blissful which reminded me of MDMA although not as forceful. I could also sense some darker elements as well, but it was easy to ignore and never became overpowering.

I also remember a powerful 'electric shock' feeling I had (I used to get this exact same shock feeling years ago) and I also kept having pulses at the bottom of my spine which made me think it was stimulating the kundalini energy in some way. Anyone else experience anything like this?

Amazing stuff, a true spiritual medicine, my brain almost craves it.
 
I doubt you'll be able to keep it under 3 hrs with higher doses, though you could try compensating by using it intramuscularly or through insufflation.

I wrote briefly of my experiece with this compound in conjunction with AMT HCL in the B&D AMT thread (currently post #134).
 
I don't know.... this chemical is definitely incredibly short. It drops off quickly, that's for sure.
 
Dondante said:
I settled on 25 mg oral + 4-5 mg insufflated 45 minutes later. It was much, much more intense than my first trial.

Three friends also tried it with me. One took 25 mg oral and had a 2 hr blackout, in which he curled up in a bed and mumbled nonsense to himself. He had absolutely no recollection of the 2 hours. Another took 20 mg and was also in for more than he'd bargained for. Last friend took the same dose as me and was tripping hard, but fine.
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Yes, I'm quoting myself. Please don't give your gf 25 mg if it's her first time/
 
Xorkoth said:
I don't know.... this chemical is definitely incredibly short. It drops off quickly, that's for sure.
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That is my experience as well. It seems to be very similar in length to ayahuasca for me. It seems anything *-DMT last a similar amount of time.

Does anyone know how trip length relates to tolerance? I would imagine with shorter acting substances tolerance is less likely to be a problem(n,n DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, Salvia). I hope this is the case with 4-AcO-DMT as well. I had ayahuasca 5 times in 9 days and there was no noticeable tolerance. I guess I'll just have to experiment and see how my body reacts...

I also agree, 25mg could be a bit much for a first time. If you want a heavy trip I would recommend doing as posted above and breaking up the dose and only taking the second portion if needed. Which it likely wont be. Be sure to report back how it goes.
 
I'll be doing 16mg max my first try. If it is as potent as miprocin and ethocin, that will be more than enough.
 
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