The Big and Dandy 4-AcO-DMT thread - New incarnation

[bluedolphin]

Please no source or price info here.

 

[swilow]

Cut out the source discussion guys. Unnaproved some posts...

 

[nearjat]

Ok sorry guys I didn't know price discussion mattered, just that erowid lists the average price MUCH less than I'm being offered.

 

[e1evene1even]

That's true, but at the same time,a gel cap will still be faster than oral, even oral without a gel cap. I used to only use an oral syringe for rectal admin but lately on the occasion that I use it (usually if I'm tripping it's DOC which works the best orally in my experience), I generally just stick it in a gel cap, moisten the gel cap a bit so it dissolves a bit faster, and do it that way. Works almost as fast, though not quite. That can actually be a good thing though sometimes, especially with 4-sub-Ts which are really fast already.

Good information. I'll have to try that sometime. I have a feeling a capsule would work a bit better for me than a syringe.

I also really enjoyed Dexter's post. Although I've tripped a fair bit in the last couple of years, I haven't 'pushed the envelope' or had a ++++ since ayahuasca in Peru over 2 years ago. The duration is so short on this one (for me) that if it every got to be more than I could handle, it would be over so quick there'd be little time to panic.

I've been mostly tripping on LSD or 2C-B lately but think I'll try some 4-AcO-DMT tonight. It has always been one of my favorites (LSD, 4-AcO-DMT, 2C-B, 2C-T-2, I'll probably add 2C-E and DOC to that list, but even though I've had them for years I still haven't tried 'em).

The problem I've been having though is that the grain is soo fine (almost like dust) that my mg scale doesn't want to measure it properly. Maybe I'll try liquid measurement of a larger dose.

 

[DexterMeth]

Nope, I find many psychedelics indistinguishable. 4-AcO-DMT is identical to P. cubensis to me, and P. cubensis is identical to P. cyanescens to me as well. The variability of each of these psychedelics is great. Sometimes the same dose of the same chemical/mushroom lasts 3 hours, sometimes 10. Sometimes I have intense OEVs and full blown hallucinations from 4g of cubensis, and other times I'll get almost no visuals and intense physical sensations and thought loops, and yet other times I'll just get giggly like I smoked lots of pot. All from the same batch, with no tolerance.

I probably couldn't tell the difference between LSD and 2C-E if not for the fact that 2C-E has that distinct phenethylamine/amphetamine body high.

I've done a shit load of psychedelics to say the least (just as a general basis for this "debate"/debate...[all definately a good healthy intellectual persuit in the end, seriously]), and I've never found a SINGLE psychedelic to be ANYTHING like ANY other...other than that it's "psychedelic"...i know...that's so fucking vague...yeah, they can all essentially send you into that trance zone where you get into the zone and go past it all, and etc...but there is definately NO WAY I've ever found any of them actually remotely close...I can/will be the only one to say this...maybe i'm more sensitive to realizing the differences..like picking out faces in a croud...but i seriously doubt that...What I think it is is that a lot of people "just" unconsciously trip/view various psychedelics to "be like"/"just like" other ones they've done, when really they are A LOT different...but yeah....."different strokes for different folks"...This whole "debate"/debate is like trying to explain why the show Family Guy exists...not how, but the show itself..just running on TV...the dialogue...the skits....it's like trying to explain LIFE....like me trying to act like I know something about some shit about something

 

[Xorkoth]

Good information. I'll have to try that sometime. I have a feeling a capsule would work a bit better for me than a syringe.

And it's SO much simpler and more convenient.

I've done a shit load of psychedelics to say the least (just as a general basis for this "debate"/debate...[all definately a good healthy intellectual persuit in the end, seriously]), and I've never found a SINGLE psychedelic to be ANYTHING like ANY other...other than that it's "psychedelic"...i know...that's so fucking vague...yeah, they can all essentially send you into that trance zone where you get into the zone and go past it all, and etc...but there is definately NO WAY I've ever found any of them actually remotely close...I can/will be the only one to say this...maybe i'm more sensitive to realizing the differences..like picking out faces in a croud...but i seriously doubt that...

Well I certainly think there are many things to find similar between different related substances, but I totally agree with you. There are some substances where I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test, but 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT and mushrooms are not at all one of them. I can guarantee I could tell the three apart almost instantly, especially 4-AcO-DMT.

 

[Psychonautical]

i have a trip report of when i consumed 100mg of 4-aco-dmt
It is written in trip reports. here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=418259
The only reason why i decided to consume 100mg's Was because after my first 12mg experience. i realized that it felt like almost 1 - 2 grams of mushrooms. Now what you need to understand here is, When i eat mushrooms, i eat around a half ounce every single time i eat mushrooms. I grow my own mushrooms. I purchased my grow chamber from www.mushroomtroll.com I'm not posting anything inappropriate by posting that. That guy actually lives in a town really close to me, and he's been trying to expand his business. From what i remember Mushrooms Kits and Mushroom Fertilizers arent illegal to advertise.

anyways. 12mg feels like 1 almost 2 grams of mushrooms with out any of the emotional side effects.

that meant to me that, 100mg should feel like almost like a half ounce of mushrooms.

emotionally it felt like i was on Ketamine. i didn't have any emotional out burst at all. I felt extremely connected and extremely deep within myself. Normally i know people who can eat 1/8th of mushrooms and go from laughing to crying and back up and down again. I discovered there to be absolutely Zero of that on this substance.

Spiritually feels like I am on Ayahuasca by that, i felt as if i was literally in heaven. I cannot even really get into the kinds of stuff i saw while on this stuff. It was literally as if My Mind was There for the Message, not for the pretty Visuals. i have about 80% of the personal message memorized. But i only have like 16% of the visuals even remotely remembered.

and Physically feels like i'm on Ecstasy. i felt my body quiver with orgasm more than once.
we're talking about full out devine heaven opening orgasm.


i'm extremely interested in trying this stuff I.V. But i have never I.V.ed anything before.
someone should private message me about this, i have developed such a strong interest in I.V.ing this stuff i went and got an insulin seringe.

I would never recommend trying to take any other RC is an amount over 30mg.
This is one of the few rare exceptions

 

[Papa1]

20mg

A night of sanely and calmly exploring the cosmic limits of thought. Wow.

 

[anamnesis]

i have a trip report of when i consumed 100mg of 4-aco-dmt
It is written in trip reports. here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=418259
The only reason why i decided to consume 100mg's Was because after my first 12mg experience. i realized that it felt like almost 1 - 2 grams of mushrooms. Now what you need to understand here is, When i eat mushrooms, i eat around a half ounce every single time i eat mushrooms.....

anyways. 12mg feels like 1 almost 2 grams of mushrooms with out any of the emotional side effects.

that meant to me that, 100mg should feel like almost like a half ounce of mushrooms.

.....

.......I would never recommend trying to take any other RC is an amount over 30mg.
This is one of the few rare exceptions

Yeah, I read on Erowid: "Dose #
A common dose of oral 4-Acetoxy-DMT is between 10 and 25 mg. Several reports describe doses of 25-30 mg as very strong, roughly equivalent in effects to 3.5 g of Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms. Insuffalation appears to produce more potent effects with a more rapid onset. A smoked dose of 40 mg of fumurate was described as extremely weak, comparable to the effects of 5 mg oral."

Okay, so lets do the math. I never consume less than 5g of p. cubensis at once, highest I've gone in one dose is 7g.

25/3.5= 7.1428571 mg/g

7.1428571*5= 35.714285

or

30/3.5= 8.5714285 mg/g

8.5714285 * 5= 42.857142

My scale is only accurate to +/- 2mg, so for me that'd be either a dose of 36 mg or 44mg.

Psychonautical, you wrote 12mg = 1-2 g of mushrooms, so,

12*5=60mg (for 12mg=1g)

or

6*5=30mg (for 12mg=2g/6mg=1g)

So I fail to see how you arrived at 100mg = 14g, unless my math is totally wrong, and trust me, I am not great at math. ?

Using your 14g mush dose & your 12mg=1-2g base:
12*14=168 (for 12mg=1g) and 6*14=84 (for 12mg=2g/6mg=1g).

I've read mostly about doses 20-30mg, and some lower, any comments on my 36 or 44 mg selections? It will be my first time with this material...

 

[Delsyd]

For your first time i would try a small dose to make sure you dont have any bad reactions to the substance.
Start with ~10mg. If all goes well i dont see any harm in taking 36-44mg., just be prepared for a strong trip.

 

[Jabberwocky]

whoa whoa

that would be blackout dose for me (36-44).

Try like 20mg after trying 10. 20 I bet is plenty for most people.

 

[Delsyd]

20mg is enough for me.
but perhaps anamnesis, who has never taken less than 5g of mushrooms, may prefer the more ego shattering doses, which 36mg would definately achieve in me.

 

[champ]

I wanted to add a bit to the discussion of psychedelics being distinguishable from one another, which I find to be a very interesting topic. IME the 2c's are really very different from each other and I can easily distinguish them within about 15 minutes of the trip starting.

4-substituted tryptamines are more difficult to tell apart I think, and I would probably need about 30 or 45 minutes of the trip to start making conjectures. Especially 4-ho-dipt, 4-ho-mipt, 4-aco-dipt all feel really similar to me and I probably wouldn't be able to distinguish them in a blind test. 4-aco-dmt is really unique and I think would likely be able to name it in a blind test--mostly because of the intensity of emotion and the weirdness of the visuals (they are remarkably immersive), it also lasts longer than the others and the trip feels more like an actual journey, whereas some of the other 4-subs are kind of short and like a whirlwind that comes and goes quickly.

I also feel like 4-aco-dmt is closer to mushrooms than the other 4-subs that I have experienced.

 

[Coolio]

champ, I find duration is not a very good indicator of substance.

It's commonly thrown around that 800ug is the saturation dose for the psychedelic effects of LSD, and anything higher than that just leads to longer trips. There are similar limits for most tryptamines and phenethylamines I think. I tend to reach the saturation dose with most psychedelics and take even higher doses that lead to extended duration.

Depending on the dose, mushrooms can last between 3 and 12 hours for me. The same dose doesn't even last the same duration from week to week. My saturation limit for P. cubensis seems to be somewhere between 7g and 12g, and the duration can be as long as LSD at 14g to 28g.

 

[champ]

^^I see your point but in my experience some drugs simply last longer than others and have a different "time line" of effects. Sure, there are always surprises, weird factors that can change things but I can say that 90% of the time 4-ho-dipt will be a shorter experience than 4-aco-dmt. Of course, if I was doing a blind taste test I would not primarily use duration to try and guess the chemical, I would mostly use the characteristics of the sensations, mental state, nature of perceptual change and that sort of thing. But duration and the "time line" would be a clue for sure.

 

[anamnesis]

whoa whoa

that would be blackout dose for me (36-44).

Try like 20mg after trying 10. 20 I bet is plenty for most people.

Err, see, every time I start light and work up to heavy doses I realize that I indeed could've just taken the heavy dose to start and saved my self a lot of wasted time , I'll put it in perspective:
2C-I: 24mg w./ 18mg supplement later
LSD: 4-10 blotter hits in one dose (10 is REALLY alot, I know)
P. Cubensis: 5-7g
2C-T-2: 24mg
2C-T-7: 36 mg (too low for me)
4-AcO-DiPT: 32mg

etc etc....I take psychedelics for numinous reasons, magic, spirituality, opening/rebalancing chakras etc.


Above Papa posted: 20mg

A night of sanely and calmly exploring the cosmic limits of thought. Wow.

Well, I prefer to go past the limits of thought, opening those doors to the invisible landscape....

Anyone gone higher than 20mg, but lower than 100mg?

 

[Coolio]

^^I see your point but in my experience some drugs simply last longer than others and have a different "time line" of effects. Sure, there are always surprises, weird factors that can change things but I can say that 90% of the time 4-ho-dipt will be a shorter experience than 4-aco-dmt. Of course, if I was doing a blind taste test I would not primarily use duration to try and guess the chemical, I would mostly use the characteristics of the sensations, mental state, nature of perceptual change and that sort of thing. But duration and the "time line" would be a clue for sure.

Oh I agree completely. But, when you're doing blind taste tests, it becomes harder to distinguish when you don't know if you received a +++ dose or a dose so high that it takes you to a +++ for an extended duration. It's a clue but it isn't definitive enough for me to be able to pass the test.

 

[Papa1]

Different strokes for different folks. Play safe.

 

[Papa1]

Wow. Another night. 25mg. I had what would be called a bad trip (horrible visions, felt like I was being poured over by a cold surgeon, death, tentacles, embarrassment) but it was so *gentle*! I felt agitated and upset, but at no point did I actually feel anxious or scared, and in fact when the truly heavy part gave way I was left with hours of wonderfully productive psychedelic contemplation. That's twice now that 4-aco-dmt has had me physically wrestling with my sanity, but it's such a controlled wrestling, such a fearless place, never once drifting into the arena of a freakout... Lovely

 

[tastethealex]

I recently had the opprotunity to take 20mg of 4-AcO-DMT, durring the beginning of the trip it had many similar qualities to taking about 2g of mushrooms, yet it felt a little more disconnected than mushrooms. much less of a body load and lacked the warm earthy feeling mushrooms have to offer. I best described the feeling as DIgital mushrooms as the effects were simillat but this had slightly more powerful visuals and was alot more controlable than mushrooms. I was in the company of friends durring the first few hours of my trip and it was easy to keepmyself relatively distracted from teh depths of my mind. however after my friends had left I was immediately blasted to the deapths of my deepest thought process. this is one effect I have never received on mushrooms. mushrooms will often make me remeber childhood memories and ponder about what was really going on durring those times, although this substance also brought back memories it went off on different tangents, instead my mind began thinking of more complex situations such as traveling back in time and maniputlating my memories in hopes to see if i could change the present or the future as if i had traveled through time. the understanding of matter and relity also became quite apparent. I began to beleive there has to be more to life and our conciousness than simply groups of molecules strictured together to form chemical rections causing us to have prosessed thought and memory.

I have only tried this substance once, so I cant say for sure if it was the state of mind that caused the directions my trip went in, I woudl like to try again, mayb enext time tking 30-40mg and get a more clear vision as to what its doing to me. although i did trip very well of the 20mg it didnt quite feel like enough, it still felt pretty background.