The Benzodiazepine Thread v. IV

[Ashley]

me and a mate the first time did about 2g each and had a great time on it, giggles and laughed heaps , stumbling around like we were drunk. woke up fine, bittle stumbly......

Is that like a little bit stumbly?

A.

 

[indybreaker]

hahah we have a spelling nazi on our hands do we!

 

[Ashley]

Nah, I just can't wait to use it in conversation.

A.

 

[psytaco]

Psytaco, have you tried Phenibut? If you are worried about benzo addiction, I've heard Phenibut can be useful for tapering off.
Dependence-forming in itself, but maybe mixing things up would be a good idea at this point.
Obviously no advice received on Bluelight can substitute the medical advice of your prescribing doctor though.
Be careful dude...

nah never tried phenibute. To be honest I'm just going to stop today. had a .5mg xanax a little while ago because I really pissed off about somthing but from now on that is it. If I go through withdrawlas then it happens. On what I am using atm it might not even happen and if it does well I will just grab some codeine and some ginger tablets for the nausea and ride the fucker out for the rest of the week.

 

[spacejunk]

Indybreaker, 9 grams is waaay to much phen. I think of it more as a useful sedative than a recreational drug.
I wouldn't discount the stuff just because you took 3+ times the normal dose....


Edit - good luck psytaco, I hope you are able to stop without too much discomfort.

 

[psytaco]

Ok. i think the withdrawals are now just beginning. started to feel anxious, noises are too loud, just generally not right. it could just be my mind playing tricks on me, but I pretty sure it has began.

What is the expected length of the more acute phase of the withdrawals. the pharmacist I spoke to yesterday seemed to think 4-5 days. I am still pretty certain at this stage that I will not need to taper and can handle it cold turkey, but I should have enough to keep me going until I can see a doctor if it gets bad. got 1 5mg valium and 7 .5mg xanax. so if shit gets real bad I guess I can just eat one valium or split the xanax in half and take it at night. that way it should be reduced to only equivalent of 5mg valium in my system which shouldn't be hard to just come off from.

Anyone got any other tips. I know codeine for the aches and anxiety will help, and ginger for the nausea. I also have some zyprexa which I guess I can take if I cannot sleep. should ask the pharmacist if this is safe whilst going through benzo withdrawals. also got restavit and a little melatonin, but those are kind of soft drugs.

any feedback is welcome guys.

fucking pissed off with myself that I have gotten myself into this again.

 

[junkie skumbag]

I have been given 50 diazepam instead of 25 on numerous occassions, it really is a good feeling when you walk out and open the box to see twice as many pills as there should be. Especially since it pretty much costs the same for 50 as 25.

I don't have personal experience with oxazepam but if my memory serves me it has a notably shorter half life than alprazolam does. Again, I haven't used the stuff, but I have been lead to believe it is not as strong as xanax.

the oxazepam was prescribed to keep me asleep at night (i have trouble falling asleep and when i do im asleep for 2-3 hours at best!) so i would think it would have a longer half life than xanax.its working quite well for me at the moment (for sleep) but i was a lil silly yesterday and kinda binged on that bottle,im not gonna say how much i took cus it was a fucking dumb amount but i would say they are alooooot weaker than xanax.think i'll try to get back on xanax for social situations/panic attacks and hopefully can keep oxazepam for sleep. i havnt had the chance to try oxazepam out with my anxiety yet but i just fucking looove xanax and not having to pay out the ass for it by buying off dealers compared to the pharmacy
fucking hate being my age all doctors seem to think im a drug seeker when im using them for legit reasons (i may slip up now n then n have a lil fun with em but grrrrrrrrrrr)

 

[spacejunk]

Psytaco, I don't have enough personal experience to give any tips in this regard, but I wish you all the best mate.
Stay strong, stay healthy.

 

[Halif]

fucking pissed off with myself that I have gotten myself into this again.

Hoo yeah, I know that feeling. All I can say is take care and good luck with it. Just think of the renewed freedom which awaits on the other side of this shitty experience.

On the topic of shitty experiences - and IME those and benzos go hand in hand - I would have to say that clonazepam WDs are the worst I have experienced. Not just for benzos, but THE WORST I have ever experienced for anything.

I've had unpleasant experiences tapering off etizolam, alprazolam, diazepam, and clonazepam, and I find that clonaz has something extra special in its ability to invoke this state of dissociated retardation which comes and goes in waves. It fires up on this day, is gone the next two days, comes back suddenly the day after... it just keeps on coming back.

This state I speak of is one where I actually feel that my brain has been damaged and I can't make sense of words, common objects and places look foreign and unreal, and I feel like a key part of personality has been erased. And the worst part of it is that absolutely nothing will get rid of it once it's started up - not even more clonazepam! It's horrid.

Anyone else have any "special" experiences with clonaz compared to other benzos?

 

[psytaco]

Spacejunk: not doing to bad. def alot more depressed, but I;ve doped myself up on codeine so not in much discomfort. Hoping for some sleep at least. if it doesn't get much worse than this then it will not be too bad. shitty but I will be able to function ok.

Halif: don't have any experience with clonz, but definately know that crap dissociated 'what the fuck is going on and why does shit sound so loud and disturbing' experience.

 

[junkie skumbag]

ok so the doc has now switched me to mogadon (nitrazapam) for sleep and kept me on the valium (witch i will be slowly taperd off i think) and the oxezapam for anxitey since it lasts so long.she said the next thing she can give me if nitrazapam dosnt work is flurazepam.hopefully nitrazapam works out for me as i hear flurazepam can fuck you up a bit too much.if im not mistaken its the date rape drug?although i wouldnt mind date raping myself

does anyone have any first hand expirence with mogadon and insomnia?

 

[Halif]

Keep it up! It feels really good to be out of the clutches of benzos. At least, I imagine it will when I finally do away with them.

Each time I've got habituated with benzos I've binged for a few weeks (longest was a few months) and then done a fairly rapid taper, and I can say that the tapering and withdrawal process does indeed seem to be harder each time. For anyone who's interested and hasn't heard of it already, check out the concept of 'kindling'. It's enough to make you say "right, once I'm through with this torturous taper and off these bloody things, I will never touch them again - and this time I mean it!

Worst taper I did was one with clonazepam. I tapered way too fast, not being used to long-acting benzos, and ended up with very nasty WD symptoms that came and went for weeks.

If I could stop smoking a-PVP I'm pretty sure I'd be able to piss off the benzos once and for all, because I'm one of the people that doesn't enjoy them at all. To me they are a tool and no more.

 

[psytaco]

Woke up today and I don't feel to bad. actually managed to get about 5 to 6 hours sleep which is alright. No shakes, though I was unusually hot last night. nausea is fine and just feel a bit under the weather. I think it was a case of when it started to hit I made more of a big issue in my mind of what was going to happen than the reality of how bad the withdrawals were. Unless I have been hit with but a glimpse of what is to come, this going to be no worse than being sick with a cold. The xanax is certainly out of my system and I would say the remaining valium should be too. its been two days since I had any valium and a day and a half for xanax.

On a side note, does anyone else find that when going through benzo wtihdrawal and they take a restavit to sleep they get their mind thrown into some sort of crazy almost k hole like mindfuck? Got no way to describe it, other than been awake through a k like dream. Just off one restavit too. My mind gets a bit weird if I have 4 under normal conditions, but nothing like last night. really had difficulty discerning what was happening in reality and what was in my head. I guess you could call it delerium.

 

[psytaco]

Seems like there really is no physical withdrawal now and it has just shifted to being psychological. I just feel fucking angry and pissed off. Been dosing codeine and it has done nothing to improve this. I just feel kind of jacked with adrenaline and in a foul fucking mood. probably should try and chill and watch a movie or something but I'm no mood to anything other than just feel angry.

went to the gym today, which is a testament that the physical side of things is nothing serious. might go for a walk in the park and chain smoke. might make me feel a little better.

this is just as likely to me been repressing shit with the valium rather than thinking about it and now it is coming to a head. I actually do have plenty to be pissed off about.

 

[dragonslayer428]

Good luck being on benzos forever. I suggest you switch doctors, any doctor that is trying to treat symptoms with benzos long term is an idiot. You need to treat the cause not the symptoms!! Im anxiety free, I used to have it really really badly to the point I couldnt eat, sleep or do anything social. The more you take it the worse ur anxiety will become. You cant stay on benzos forever, thats why ur doctor is knocking you back scripts, he is doing you a favor if you think about it. On the side note if u are taking benzos or seroquels to knock you out to sleep then there is something wrong with your Molly. Anytime I use it I fall asleep like a baby right after even at high doses.

Everyone is different. I got off benzos at one point in my life and was taking clonidine. I lasted about 6 months until I started to feel anxiety again. I'm diagnosed with OCD, ADD, Anxiety and Depression and Panic Disorder since I was 18 years old. Had my first panic attack at 12 years old. Believe me, I hate having to take benzos, but it does help. I also attend therapy twice a week. I take a quite a bit of medication, but I'm no spring chicken anymore. To say that any DR. that treats long term with benzos is wrong, is a moronic statement. Maybe you 'feel great' and alll that shit, but some people don't. Everyone's body and brain chemistry is different. So, get a clue before you go spouting out stupid statements as such.

 

[laugh]

the problem is the health industry is a business, the Doc probably owns shares in the pharm. company producing the meds...

havnt had any benzos for about a year when i quit the pipe, had 10mg temaz and 10mg diaz with some beers...good times

 

[TaSiPtR]

Im hooked to the shithouse on Xanax .. my doc said it would take a month or more, but i had a nears-seizure when i went cold turkey after 10 days. Im on it again cause the panic attack was so severe and scary!! Ive been taking valium for YEARS and found it NOWHERE NEAR as addictive as Xanax. I was hooked on valium for a few months but it was relatively easy to kick. BUt the Xanax is a mother!!!'

IF ANYONE HAS HINTS ON HOW TO GET OFF IT PLEASE TELL ME! I'm only taking 1-2mg a day


WC

I have recently been badly abusing the fuckers up to 6-8 Bars at a ime on top of my methadone because the problem I find with them is that you have 2 bars & it feels good but then you don't get the body load like from Valium so you have another couple even though your a drooling mess/menace you still think your fine I'v had 2 bad siezures in the last six weeks every time it was after 2 days off xanax but I have a history of siezures before benzo addiction so I must have a ow siezure threshold my advice is go back to valium & stop the xanax if you have bad panic attacks ask your G.P. psyc for Rivitrol (Clonazapam) not sure of the spelling. Best of luck!

 

[laugh]

6-8 is heavy bro. i always found temaze then alpraz to have way more bodyload so to speak compared to diaz. i find diaz the most subtly benign. thats only my experience though

i used to love hitting the crystal and dropping two bars made me feel like i was walking on a cloud...i suppose i was to a certain extent.

temaze for me has the best body buzz, however i hear its also the most neutoxic / toxic

@Warchild good luck with the escape!!!

 

[singularity5]

to anyone going through benzo withdrawal...

when you're in the depths of it and you're losing your mind have someone you live with or if not on your own to remind and reassure yourself often/whenever a wave of symptoms hits that it will end and you're not stuck like that forever

when I finally stopped after several years of escalating doses and moving from the weaker to more potent variety of benzos, the withdrawals experienced were quite severe and lasted what seemed like an eternity which got me stuck in thought loops thinking I was permanently broken and wouldn't be able to think properly, enjoy life or feel sane again - if anyone is going through this remember no matter how fucked up you feel it will get better and you'll return to your old self again in time - stay strong and remain positive

some other things that helped me get through were walking everyday, slowly upping the exercise as it got better, healthy diet (some foods would ramp up the withdrawals), seeing a therapist and obviously abstaining from all drugs especially alcohol

mine were on the severe end though so don't freak out if you're someone planning a taper/deciding to get off benzos and your daily dose isn't that high and you haven't been taking them very long - everyones different and regardless of extensive use some people escape harsh withdrawals, while others may have a hard time after taking a low dose for only a month or two... at the end of the day how long/many you've been taking and how slowly you taper off will effect the length/intensity of the withdrawals though

i don't recommend taking any GABA supplements or other herbs/drugs that may boost GABA levels in an attempt to minimise withdrawals however tempting it may be because it will only delay your GABA receptors from functioning normally on their own again without the influence of GABA agonists - they may have undesired effects and possibly prolong/worsen withdrawal - i do recommend other herbs/supplements though that may have a calming effect without agonising your GABA, things like passionflower, chamomile tea etc - another thing that helped me was taking lots of baths and burning aromatherapy candles/oils while using breathing techniques, this would bring me down a little bit from the peak of a harsh wave of withdrawal

it would also help to reassure myself that when the withdrawal was at its worst or a wave of symptoms was hitting that this meant my brain was actually repairing itself and it was a good and necessary thing that had to happen - in the sense that to recover my brain would have to realise it needed to correct and rebalance itself first and the only way for that to happen was for it to endure the withdrawals via the removal of the benzos - using thoughts like that to keep me going really helped

stay positive and know as long as you don't give in and take them again your brain will eventually heal and you'll come out the other side stronger, wiser and enjoying a quality of life you may not have thought possible again during the addiction/withdrawal phases

peace

 

[singularity5]

What is the expected length of the more acute phase of the withdrawals.

My timeline went like this;

~8 days of a severe acute stage - little to no sleep, muscle shakes/spasms, depersonalisation/depression/anxiety, kept thinking I was dieing of a heart attack or a stroke as well as descending into complete insanity which I wasn't - it was just the brutal withdrawals tricking me - my paranoia about the symptoms was so bad I admitted myself to the ER on one occasion, blood pressure skyrocketed, crying outbursts, nightmares, intrusive thoughts... (there were endless symptoms)

Then for the next 6-8 weeks I went through 7-8 day cycles of shocking symptoms followed by a 7-8 day window of increasingly improving symptoms.

This went on for about 4 months until the windows got further and further apart and became less and less intense until they were gone altogether - at times I would think I was out of the woods only to be struck down out of the blue by a wave of symptoms.

By the 7-8 month mark I could safely say I was feeling zero symptoms anymore - but they had become very mild by month 5 anyway.

Been off them about 18 months at this point and and the only remaining issue is that alcohol effects me differently and can bring out symptoms if I drink too much (not the normal alcohol induced problems everyone is familiar with but rather temporary flashbacks of the acute benzo withdrawal - I still drink and for the most part it isn't a problem though) other than that I feel great - the whole thing actually forced me to learn some invaluable life lessons and grow up alot - made me a better person in many ways - obviously not a reason to go down that path though haha.

fucking pissed off with myself that I have gotten myself into this again.

Treat it as a learning experience that has reminded you what you want to achieve - relapse really is a part of recovery if you think of it like that. It took me a few times of returning to the benzos then coming off them again before I went on the final year long stint with the clonazepam which was the final catalyst for completely stopping for good. While I regret that time, if it didn't get so bad maybe I'd still be dependant on them because the universe wouldn't have kicked my ass enough yet.

Best of luck man.

On the topic of shitty experiences - and IME those and benzos go hand in hand - I would have to say that clonazepam WDs are the worst I have experienced. Not just for benzos, but THE WORST I have ever experienced for anything.

I've had unpleasant experiences tapering off etizolam, alprazolam, diazepam, and clonazepam, and I find that clonaz has something extra special in its ability to invoke this state of dissociated retardation which comes and goes in waves. It fires up on this day, is gone the next two days, comes back suddenly the day after... it just keeps on coming back.

This state I speak of is one where I actually feel that my brain has been damaged and I can't make sense of words, common objects and places look foreign and unreal, and I feel like a key part of personality has been erased. And the worst part of it is that absolutely nothing will get rid of it once it's started up - not even more clonazepam! It's horrid.

Anyone else have any "special" experiences with clonaz compared to other benzos?

Yes, I can very much relate to what you're talking about... "dissociated retardation" is a spot on description. My last year of taking benzos was with the 2mg clonazepams, taking huge doses at times (took 64mg one night during a dark time - not dicksizing infact looking back I'm ashamed and disgusted of those actions, I'm trying to illuminate how far and out of control benzo addiction can get). Clonazepam propelled my dependancy way up and really messed with me. Had many embarrassing, frightening, costly, damaging and simply just dark dark moments/experiences during that time - surprised I made it through all that bullshit in hindsight really. Theres actually alot of paralells between what clonazepam did to me in withdrawal and a really bad acid trip if I think about it. You feel like your nervous system is fried beyond repair.

Pretty sure in the UK clonazepam is only to be used as an anti-epileptic and never for anxiety due to its potency and I guess higher affinity to receptors that deal with controlling seizures and the speed of synapses firing. No other benzo caused me to feel the depersonalisation and surreal/terrifying sensory problems clonazepam caused. The withdrawals were just absolutely brutal.

I felt like the lid on my mind was ajar and all my thoughts were rushing and flying about with no order as well as nightmarish intrusive thoughts flying in. It was accompanied by terrible anxiety, cognitive fog, a deep depression, had a recurring thought/feeling that I'd ruined my life forever and was brain damaged. This was not the case - again it was just the power of the withdrawal and how it enveloped every aspect of my mind tricking me into thinking 'this is it now forever - this is all that's left of my broken mind'. I was unable to imagine the possibility that my brain would rebuild itself even when medical professionals would tell me it would. This is why I want to share this with others who might be going through similar and may have lost hope as I did. Don't listen to those thoughts. Things will improve pretty much back to pre-benzo days eventually if you put in the time and work.

While benzos can create a powerful physical dependancy which can be life threatening. It's the psychological symtoms that are the most troubling IMO.

I hope these last two posts don't come across too depressing heh, my point is that there is most definitely a light at the end of the tunnel even when you can't see it or even imagine that it exists. Keep trudging through those unnerving symptoms until time works its healing powers.

You'll find your symptoms go away eventually, just stick at it. Mine were horrific and I'm fine now so hopefully that gives you some peace of mind. Keep riding the waves until they calm down to nothing.

Last thing I want to mention is that I still believe benzos have a necessary place in medicine and most people don't go through the shit I and others here have. If you take them responsibly I doubt you'll fall into any problems. I don't want to give the impression I've got off a certain drug and am now railing against it unaware that some people can handle what I couldn't. My posts are more for those who have gona down the path of heavy benzo abuse/dependancy and to act as a warning.

If anyone is contemplating coming off their benzos and embarking on a taper plan or has already begun and want as much information as possible I suggest googling 'The Ashton Manual' - helped me. Sorry for the lengthy posts, wanted to make sure I got the important bits out even if I may have repeated myself - as long as someone gains/learns something from this.